Hemlock woes

petefrom bearswamp · August 20, 2015, 08:15:08 AM

I saw almost exclusively Hemlock unless someone brings me other species.
The biggest issue is shake.
It often doesnt show up for a few weeks in the log pile.
Sawing around it is very time consuming and creates lots of 2" sticker and 3" batten stock and lots of unusable edgings.
I have a good sized pile of edgings now and it is growing.
I cant legally burn this stuff and it is a real problem space wise.
I looked at 2 batches of logs a couple of days ago and both were not suitable for my use.
I am considering going to White pine instead of Hemlock, but WP is not a favored lumber here.

thecfarm · August 20, 2015, 09:16:42 AM

@Peter Drouin has a big grinder comes in and makes all that stuff disappears into chips. I have no idea how much he gets for money. But if you can't burn them,I guess even if you don't make any money it's worth it. May have to have a good size pile to make it worth it.

Chuck White · August 20, 2015, 09:54:47 AM

Pete; Running the sawmill (especially in a stationary setup) is considered "agriculture", and agricultural, you can burn your debris without a burning permit!

jwilly3879 · August 20, 2015, 01:50:31 PM

A fellow here got in trouble burning his as it was called industrial waste.

rooster 58 · August 20, 2015, 04:12:21 PM

Saw your w.p. for the log home industry maybe. Just a thought....

bkaimwood · August 20, 2015, 06:06:33 PM

Several thoughts...before I forget...careful the ball a wax you could open...if running a sawmill makes you agricultural, then you have to be zoned agricultural.... Anyhow, hemlock shake...very disappointing, and extremely common...the most common I've seen, with cherry and white pine behind it...so going to white pine may help some...half the large white pine logs I saw have shake, and I often lose as much to shake as I do to blue and beetles that lay forever...chance for shake decreases greatly with log diameter, in my area...lots of variables...region, wind, harvest location, and so on...try some pine, try to develop or improve market for it...trying nothing changes nothing, right?

petefrom bearswamp · August 21, 2015, 07:39:28 AM

As I read the anti burning law, you can burn ag waste if the material is grown on your property.
I may suffer a case of arson this winter.
Never noticed shake in WP or BC, but red rot is a concern

WoodenHead · August 21, 2015, 02:29:44 PM

I've had problems with shake in WP. It comes and goes - one load has problems and the next is fine. The worst I had it was about 10% shake in a load. Nothing was visible from the ends, but when the log was opened up, boards fell apart in my hands. :-\

However, this is nothing compared to shake I have seen in Hemlock. I was going to buy a load of hemlock once, but shake was visible at the ends in about 75% of the logs. I decided then and there that Hemlock was not for me.

4x4American · August 21, 2015, 05:13:51 PM

Idk where you bring to out there but you can get money for hemlock chips around here

Ludo · August 21, 2015, 09:46:25 PM

Ironic that this is posted today. I was asked (almost begged) to produce some quarter sawn Hemlock 2x6 last week. I advised against it because of the shake and that it sometimes shows after it has been sawn. Well, as you can guess, the lumber came out spectacular and went home with the customer. Today it came back, split. I suggested driving big nails through the 2" side to hold them together. ;D At any rate, I am sawing spruce for the customer on Monday. He is keeping the hemlock as well.

Magicman · August 21, 2015, 09:55:16 PM

Quote from: Ludo on August 21, 2015, 09:46:25 PMI suggested driving big nails through the 2" side to hold them together.

I favor injecting glue and using a long screw. ;D

Peter Drouin · August 22, 2015, 06:25:09 AM

I like Hemlock, When I started buying it, some loggers would try to slip in some shake. By the time I got done with the taking off BF it wasn't worth halling. :D :D
Now they bring the good stuff. ;D

This guy always brings the good stuff, The shake go's it his Morbark then the power plant.

thecfarm · August 22, 2015, 06:31:09 AM

Hemlock is a good building wood,in this area. I used it for one project and it was fine, started another project and had some problems with shake. This was all hemlock off from my land.

petefrom bearswamp · August 22, 2015, 07:34:01 AM

Going to look at some on a landing tomorrow.
Only problem is that is was bucked with a slasher so shake will be hard to see.

Ron Wenrich · August 22, 2015, 09:42:14 AM

It's quite common for veneer buyers to take a cookie off the end of the log with a saw. That should show if there is any shake. They also wet the ends down on logs. They do that to see if there is any glass worm or the like. It may also work on shake. A couple gallons of water and a tank sprayer should help you out.

I know the quality of logs are different, but it's your money and if you can find a trick that works, then use it.

deadfall · August 22, 2015, 12:51:30 PM

Out here on the left edge of the country, "shake" is something another industry deals with. I don't know the dissimilarities between eastern and western hemlock, but the term, "shake," is unfamiliar to me. Can someone please explain this term?

Thank you.

Alyeska Pete · August 22, 2015, 01:02:20 PM

Separation on the annual rings.

Ron Wenrich · August 22, 2015, 01:03:01 PM

Shake is ring separation. There will be a line or crack in a growth ring, and the wood will fall apart on that line. I believe it's caused by a bacteria. I've seen it in all sorts of species. I've seen it go completely around a growth ring in severe cases. It varies how far it will travel in a log. My experience has been from only a few feet to almost log length. I've been able to cut around it in hardwoods, without too much trouble.

I never had too much trouble with shake in hemlock. It was pretty isolated. But, we didn't have stands of hemlock in my area. Usually they were just a few scattered trees in a stand that were removed. I often wonder if that isn't a reason I didn't see as much. Also, I wonder if tree age wasn't a factor. Most hemlock I cut was fairly young and faster growing.

Magicman · August 22, 2015, 03:44:22 PM

The ring shake in this log resembles a smile.

Kbeitz · August 22, 2015, 04:36:02 PM

What would this be in Hemlock?
After I cut it it just fell apart...
The cant was solid on both sides of the black line...

Magicman · August 22, 2015, 05:04:05 PM

The tree fractured when it was felled. It could have been a low ground spot midways of the tree causing the unsupported landing, but more likely there was high ground midways of the tree. I have to watch for fractured logs when I am sawing "beetle killed" SYP.

The piece of Black Willow "Mystery Wood" that I carried to the Pig Roast was similarly fractured.

thecfarm · August 22, 2015, 05:07:21 PM

This is an extreme example of shake.
This is an old hemlock,probably came from the edge of my bog. About 75 years old. The straight line was done by a chainsaw because it was too big for pulp,which is 28 inches.

deadfall · August 22, 2015, 05:09:45 PM

Well I'd call that a fracture, Kbeitz.

What you call shake back thar, I have called, "ring check," and heard it called, "freeze check," as well in the western red cedar we sawed when I worked in the shingle mill in another lifetime. That stuff could be hazardous for the bolterman. It was my job to split as much of it out as possible before sending it down the chain.

And I have seen it in western hemlock. In fir and spruce, the seams fill with pitch and make sawing it messy.

Thank you.

Ron Wenrich · August 22, 2015, 05:18:34 PM

I've seen hardwood butts that look like that, but it usually had spider heart as well. I've seen ash logs that look like that. How far up did the shake run? Is that a double heart where it grew around another tree?