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Newb wanting to log his own timber... (please be gentle)

Started by HSkinner, August 12, 2015, 01:12:04 AM

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HSkinner

I recently relocated from Arizona to Idaho. I've been in construction for many years and used a chainsaw for years felling timber for firewood. I've built and remodeled many homes. For years I have dreamed about logging all the timber necessary to build a modest, simple cabin. My question is how do I go about getting permits  and or permission to do this. Is this possible as a non-commercial, unlicensed professional home builder? I live very close to the abundance of beautiful timber in the south eastern corner of Idaho. There is a commercial sawmill not far from me and they log their own logs. What steps do I need to take to prepare for this? Thanks

CCC4

I think it is definitely do able. Not sure of permits, in Arkansas a guy would just go and cut his timber and build a cabin if that is what he wanted to do.

One thing you will have to take into consideration is milling and dry time. Once a species of tetimber is selected, you will need to know its characteristics of dry time. What are your plans on milling?

I used to be a head sawyer and have sawn many house packages of my career. Tongue and grooves house logs a by far the easiest to work with. Blueprints can be obtained readily on line and from package mills.

Biggest thing is going to be the milling and drying, then you will have to send the logs to a house log plainer and get the finished product.

Don't let anyone talk you out of using "chink" in your seams...even on tongue and grooved logs.

Good luck!

mad murdock

Do you have any trees of useable size on your own land?  That is where I would start. From there yiu need to have a plan, are you going to build a stick frame structure, or a log style structure? If log, what kind of log? Full round, hewn, slabbed?  What kind of fit and finish? Floor plan etc.  a lot of variables to consider, how you proceed will depend on what kind of structure you want when you are done. If you have trees of useable size and species sufficient to build your project, you can go to your county or local state forester and get the particulars as to notification requirements and timber management plan, to get the ball rolling on the cutting part of it.  Fire season is on right now, so unless you are experiencing a lot of moisture, be sure and check with the fire protection agency near you to see what the danger level is at, and what types of activities are allowed for the danger level you have now. When it comes to the actual cutting, gathering and molding your logs into useable materials to fashion your project, a few items will be first and foremost, PPE (personal protection equipment) i.e. Chainsaw chaps or pants, boots and head/face/eye/ear protection. A good dependable saw or 3 ;) some tools to wrangle logs and timbers, peavey, (check out sponsor logrite), a way to get the logs from the stump to a work area, (fetching or skidding arch, as one option-there are many, depending on the lay of your place and what all you have to work with).  A spencer log tape or some way of measuring your logs as you cut and move trees. Are you milling your own or taking it to a mill, or having a portable mill come to your log deck?  Lots of wuestions to answer, which depend on your plan and what you have to work with. As far as your land goes, plan for after the logging as in replanting etc.  if you are unfamiliar with timber stand management, consult with your stewardship (state) forester or if ID has them your county forester or possibly your county extension service may have someone knowledgable that provides advice to small woodlands landowners, or your small woodlands association will have a list of resources for you to draw from locally.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

John Mc

It may be different out in your area, but the place I'd start to get a handle on permits in VT is by talking to the local zoning administrator. He or she may be the one who issues permits, or at the very least, they would know who you need to talk to. Another source of info would be to talk to an experienced builder in the area, and get pointers on where to go for permitting.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

beenthere

HSSkinner stated
QuoteI live very close to the abundance of beautiful timber in the south eastern corner of Idaho.

I took that to indicate he doesn't have his own timber to cut..  maybe wrong on that conclusion and that he does have some timberland.  If not, then will need to find out who the landowners are who will allow cutting... likely BLM or the USFS in that area.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

grassfed

It is one thing if you are talking about cutting your own timber. You could probably do that without too much trouble. You may also be able to cut on private property if you strike a deal with the land owner. If you are talking about public land I think that it would be very hard to do that. I would think that most public land is put up for bid. You would have to qualify to even bid. Most job sizes would be much bigger than you need. It just does not seem like that would be a realistic option. 
Mike

grassfed

Maybe I'm wrong. I did some research and found this info for Co maybe they have the same program where you live. This is for BLM managed land and is specifically for non commercial personal use.

http://www.blm.gov/co/st/en/fo/sjplc/forestry.html
Mike

lumberjack48

Here in MN. 25 yrs ago, if you wanted to build a log home. You could go the the State or Fed's and tell them you want to build a log home for yourself. Then they'd pick out a spot they wanted thinned out and go out and mark it. They'd sell it to a person for what the market value was at the time. It was up to you to get it logged and trucked to your building site.
I hauled a few loads of tree length Norway and some White Spruce cabin poles for private parties that had did this. I rented my skidder to guy that wanted to do the logging himself.
I knew one guy who wanted to build a frame house. He hired us to log it and haul it. It was all big White Pine. I can't remember if it was State or Fed or who many BF it was. I do remember it was in the Blackduck district and we were done at 11 am with the cutting and skidding.
I don't know if they do this anymore
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

mad murdock

Some states still have a "timber alotment". So many bd ft per year that you can purchase from the state for reasonable stumpage rates. The only thing is like LJ48 said, it is up to the state forester to decide where you can cut and which trees you are buying, but it is all subject to buyer approval of course.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

thecfarm

HSkinner,welcome to the forum.
timber alotment,that is an interesting way to get logs.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

HSkinner

I do not have any usable timber on my own land. In Arizona it was actually quite easy to get a permit to harvest mill able lumber believe it or not. I was just curious if anyone knew if Idaho offered something like AZ and I think CO does something similar. I want to do a square, 8" log home. I also intend on building my own sawmill. I have the time to do this because I do not have a normal job like most people. I intended building the cabin in the most efficient way I can somehow lagging the milled lumber together as I have seen others do.I'm not opposed to chinking as it will occasionally get down to 30 below. There seems to be a lot of lodgepole pine and spruce near by. I know it will take time to dry the lumber. Is standing dead an option? Thanks for all of the valuable input! You guys are solid...

beenthere

I'd think standing-dead would likely be your best bet, so make contact with State forestry and Fed Forestry (BLM or USFS) to learn your options. There may, or may not, be a lot of hoops you have to jump through, and may have time limits on your harvesting scheme.
Lodgepole would be good log home wood.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

CCC4

beenthere is right, there is a log cabin company based out of Canada that sells kit homes in my area, all the timber was dead standing. This is a good option due to minimal shrinkage.

Op, you mentioned lag bolting, in tongue and grooved logs, you can use long screws and adhesive to build your walls. You also mentioned 8 inch logs, you can use 6x6 and also 6x9...these seem to be the most popular sizes I personally have seen used on more of a regular basis. I think when you get into the wider walls such as 7x8 you are only gaining a little bit of R value.

You also read where I mentioned chinking, being a permanently semi pliable substance, it really helps with shrink and swell that occurs during seasonal temps and keeps the air out. Also, if you are going to heat with and indoor wood furnace, expect shrinkage due to the dry heat, chink will help with this  and can be reapplied if you see cracks appear.

John Mc

Are your inside walls going to be the bare log walls, or will you be finishing them somehow?

I don't know a lot about log homes, but I ask because there may be more effective ways to increase the R-value than going from 6" up to 8" logs. (Maybe a foil-backed foam inside, which you could then cover with paneling or sheetrock. This would provide a vapor barrier, reduce air infiltration plus add a lot more R-value than just using thicker logs. I don't know if people ever do this on log homes, but I've seen it used very effectively to winterize some other types of 3-season camps.)
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

HSkinner

I went over to one of the forest service offices in a neighboring county because I happened tp be over there and they said that in their county they no longer allow small scale logging to take place. I'm going to try my county but will likely get the same result. If I was cutting standing dead I wonder if a normal burn permit would work... I'm trying to build a cost effective home. I don't want a mortgage! I would do interior walls in the exposed logs. I may try and see if one of the mills in my area would sell me a truck load of wood. thx for the help

John Mc

That truck load of wood from a mill may be your easiest bet. Another tack might be to approach a logger or forester active somewhere near you tell him what you want, and ask him if he'd sell you some logs. If he/she is working for the landowner, and not a mill, they may have the flexibility to send something your way. You might save a few bucks over what you'd pay a mill, especially if it's convenient for them to drop a load at your place.

The logging and getting the wood out looks easier than it is. At least it looks easier when someone good at it does it... I've been known to make it look very difficult at times :D  Let's just say it's a good thing I'm not trying to make a living at it.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

thecfarm

Quote from: HSkinner on August 16, 2015, 01:28:19 AM
I went over to one of the forest service offices in a neighboring county because I happened tp be over there and they said that in their county they no longer allow small scale logging to take place.

I do hope that county means without the proper so called paperwork and permits.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

John Mc

Some places have started to drop making lots available on public land. There may be a concern that "Joe & Jane Homeowner" would hurt themselves or leave a lot of residual stand damage? I know commercial loggers have to have a large liability policy in place - not sure if that's even available to a landowner, and it certainly would cost more than a few cords of firewood are worth.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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