Mill out of level? or?

Wallee · August 09, 2015, 12:30:47 AM

Refer to the video for the question in its full form.
https://youtu.be/0hJpIYb8yo8

deadfall · August 09, 2015, 01:18:01 AM

Can you sight down the cant or stretch a string and see if the dip is equal on both edges of the cant. If it's off a quarter inch in the center, that's an eighth on both sides if it's consistent across the whole cut. But one corner can be straighter and the other dipping more. So the quarter inch might be from one corner being off line and and one corner straight. On the LT-30 I once had, we had a similar situation. I don't know about the LT-15. It looks like it's standing on each rail. With the portables' cantilever, it is the side away from the rails that dips the most. Hard to make good boards with a problem like that.

If you can pull a string tight and check it to the blade along the travel, you might see what's doin'. Check the deck and the head travel for straight.

Like I said, don't know about your saw.

Wallee · August 09, 2015, 01:36:19 AM

Quote from: deadfall on August 09, 2015, 01:18:01 AM
Can you sight down the cant or stretch a string and see if the dip is equal on both edges of the cant. If it's off a quarter inch in the center, that's an eighth on both sides if it's consistent across the whole cut. But one corner can be straighter and the other dipping more. So the quarter inch might be from one corner being off line and and one corner straight. On the LT-30 I once had, we had a similar situation. I don't know about the LT-15. It looks like it's standing on each rail. With the portables' cantilever, it is the side away from the rails that dips the most. Hard to make good boards with a problem like that.

If you can pull a string tight and check it to the blade along the travel, you might see what's doin'. Check the deck and the head travel for straight.

Like I said, don't know about your saw.

I will pull a string tomorrow and see what I can see. I am learning so you probably know more than me! lol. I am hoping I can figure this one out quick, because it is annoying!

Kbeitz · August 09, 2015, 06:05:56 AM

Best way is using a cheap kids Lazar light.

ladylake · August 09, 2015, 07:28:16 AM

If your cant is thin in the middle you need more support in the middle of the mill, if thinner on the ends you need more support on the ends, no need to mess around with strings or lasers the cant will tell you where the mill needs support. If there is stress in the log it will do what it wants to do. Steve

WDH · August 09, 2015, 07:44:23 AM

I would pull a string to make sure that the bed supports all line up perfectly. Do it on alongside each long rail, and in the middle. If they line up properly, the problem is that stress in the log is causing the cant to move, thereby causing the deviation. If it is stress, the only solution is to turn the cant 180 degrees after every cut or two.

ScottInCabot · August 09, 2015, 09:05:26 AM

I would think that no piece of timber will ever be perfect.....the natural tension released when cutting will make the thin/thickness move(thus making you think the mill is 'off')

Or maybe I'm wrong ;D

ScottinCabot

Magicman · August 09, 2015, 09:33:18 AM

There are a few that are perfect and then there are the others.........

Wallee · August 09, 2015, 10:07:20 AM

Quote from: ScottInCabot on August 09, 2015, 09:05:26 AM
I would think that no piece of timber will ever be perfect.....the natural tension released when cutting will make the thin/thickness move(thus making you think the mill is 'off')

Or maybe I'm wrong ;D

ScottinCabot

Ha ha maybe I am overthinking it a bit, but Im good with a 1/16th here and there but 1/4 seems a little much. I am going to see if I can get some more support in those sections today and see what it does.

deadfall · August 09, 2015, 11:32:32 AM

If it was just one cant, then maybe we are jumping the gun here. I shouldn't believe everything I see in the movies. :D

Wallee · August 09, 2015, 04:10:25 PM

Quote from: deadfall on August 09, 2015, 11:32:32 AM
If it was just one cant, then maybe we are jumping the gun here. I shouldn't believe everything I see in the movies. :D

2 cants in a row

beenthere · August 09, 2015, 05:23:23 PM

Wallee
What did you find out when you pulled a string?

And when you pull a string on the bed one side then the other, and measure from the blade down to the string as you moved the head down the track, what were your measurements. This takes the movement of the cant or movement from a wandering blade out of the picture.

Any dips near the middle where you were measuring narrow locations in your video?

MartyParsons · August 09, 2015, 09:50:35 PM

Hello,
A level and a string will drive a man crazy. I would measure from the blade ( blade must be tracked in and tight to proper tension) to each bed rail. Measure on the drive side of the blade and from the idle side of the blade. Document each measurement on the bed rail with a sharpie or marker. To make things easier do it at a whole # like 15" or 18" Use a steel rule something you can make square to the bed rail not forward or back but straight up. I am not liking a tape measure to do this. The measurement should be 1/16" higher on the idle side of the blade. If every bed rail is the same the wood has stress and is moving while you cut. If every bed rail is not the same. ( I guess the bed would be 1/4" lower in the center then your beams you have it supported with would be the issue? But if it just started then I would guess it would be the reaction wood in the log.

Hope this helps.
Marty

Wallee · August 09, 2015, 10:23:04 PM

Quote from: MartyParsons on August 09, 2015, 09:50:35 PM
Hello,
A level and a string will drive a man crazy. I would measure from the blade ( blade must be tracked in and tight to proper tension) to each bed rail. Measure on the drive side of the blade and from the idle side of the blade. Document each measurement on the bed rail with a sharpie or marker. To make things easier do it at a whole # like 15" or 18" Use a steel rule something you can make square to the bed rail not forward or back but straight up. I am not liking a tape measure to do this. The measurement should be 1/16" higher on the idle side of the blade. If every bed rail is the same the wood has stress and is moving while you cut. If every bed rail is not the same. ( I guess the bed would be 1/4" lower in the center then your beams you have it supported with would be the issue? But if it just started then I would guess it would be the reaction wood in the log.

Hope this helps.
Marty

Couldn't figure out how to attach and use the string on the bed to be honest, so I used this method here. I noticed that the mill was 3/16 out on one bunk. So I shimmed it in that area. Was going to check it with a log but then this happened >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

This wasn't welded properly from the factory..... Completely missed the weld and this is what happens when something isn't properly checked before it leaves. I will be calling the place in the morning and seeing what they are going to do to fix this, hopefully send me a new one without a hassle overnight.

Tree Dan · August 09, 2015, 10:36:25 PM

Yes forget the stringline...Measure every bunk to the blade all the way down.
You may have dropped a log on the bed and the bunk went out of adjustment (Down)
Remember the saw head gets pulled down 1/16" on the open side,
as the blade enters the log.

I could not hear your video, but you would see the stress in the wood as your cutting if that was the problem

Tree Dan · August 09, 2015, 10:42:41 PM

Do you have a picture of the frame it broke away from?
Your not having much luck....It will get better

Wallee · August 09, 2015, 11:01:31 PM

Quote from: Tree Dan on August 09, 2015, 10:42:41 PM
Do you have a picture of the frame it broke away from?
Your not having much luck....It will get better

Thanks for the words of encouragement! I do have a pic!

rjwoelk · August 10, 2015, 12:30:14 AM

I have a dislike for those new style clamps :( give me one they used before these. They were a lot quicker to engage and one did not have binding of threads, because they had no threads :D. I have found some old style and changing over. 8)l

SawyerBrown · August 10, 2015, 06:41:17 AM

I'm completely not following the train of thought on bed rail not being flat. That may be a problem, but it's not going to result in the "swayback" that Wallee is seeing in the cant if it's clamped in tightly. The only way I can see that happening is if it's NOT clamped in tightly, the middle rails are high, and the cant tips as you're cutting through.

I'm betting it's stress in the log. I'd make sure the rails are flat (not necessarily dead level, Wallee, that isn't critical ...) by using a long straight 2x4 or other straightedge, put your "swayback" side back up, and make a pass at 8 3/4" (trimming the excess off the ends and just skimming the middle). If it's stress, that should straighten it out.

Wallee · August 11, 2015, 01:10:24 AM

Talked with woodmizer today. They are overnighting me a log clamp, so that is hopefully going to be here in the am 8) . As For the mill bed I worked on it today some, and it looks to be out 2/16 on one particular bunk toward the center. I tried jacking and lifting to no avail as it would just lift the entire mill no matter where I placed my jack. I tightened up all of the bed bolts where the sections attach and when I get my log clamp installed I will be trying another log and seeing what I can make of it. Hopefully I will have her up and going correctly soon.

stanwelch · August 11, 2015, 07:26:32 AM

On the 10 foot extension I made for my LT15, the bunks are a little lower than the other mill bunks. I have a strip of SS flat stock that I place on the extension bunk to level the end of any log that reaches these bunks. Maybe Woodmizer SS caps for an LT40 would fit

Wallee · August 11, 2015, 09:30:44 AM

Quote from: stanwelch on August 11, 2015, 07:26:32 AM
On the 10 foot extension I made for my LT15, the bunks are a little lower than the other mill bunks. I have a strip of SS flat stock that I place on the extension bunk to level the end of any log that reaches these bunks. Maybe Woodmizer SS caps for an LT40 would fit

Maybe, but it shouldn't be off from the factory right ???

Verticaltrx · August 11, 2015, 10:28:32 AM

On an LT15 either your bed isn't flat (high or low in the middle) or there is stress in the log, those are the only two options I know of for you problem.

When I first set mine up the ground wasn't very stable under the mill and I didn't have adequate cribbing under it to support the logs. I was having similar problems, i.e. cants that were thick in the middle or cants that are thin in the middle (from the bed shifting).

To be sure this is the problem, mill another cant and check all four sides. If the bed is low or high in the middle your cant will be off on all four sides. If it's only off on one or two, then it's probably just stress in the log.

If you need to adjust it, try just slightly loosening the bolts that clamp the bed sections together, readjust the bed, then reclamp it.

Wallee · August 12, 2015, 12:14:51 AM

Ok, Someone please help me lol. I put slabs up and skimmed off one side, flipped them over, took off the other side to make 1x6 boards. I got the same problem........ 6" ends and a 5 13/16" center......................... Mill is level! But I noticed after cutting them the center bunks ( the two middle of the four that were under the slabs) were not touching the cant and the two ends were touching, which that makes since considering after the sawhead passes it cuts more out of the centers. Its 3/16 off some way some how.

beenthere · August 12, 2015, 12:27:57 AM

Sounds like you are experiencing tension stress in the boards, that when edging off the first edge the board is under tension on the remaining bark side. Thus only the ends touch as the middle has raised 3/16" when flipping the other edge up.
Is the edge from the 2nd cut straight ? and the first edge curved?
Next time, site down the board to see if it is straight or has a curve. Also can pull a string.