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Mill out of level? or?

Started by Wallee, August 09, 2015, 12:30:47 AM

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Wallee

Refer to the video for the question in its full form.
https://youtu.be/0hJpIYb8yo8
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

deadfall

Can you sight down the cant or stretch a string and see if the dip is equal on both edges of the cant.  If it's off a quarter inch in the center, that's an eighth on both sides if it's consistent across the whole cut.  But one corner can be straighter and the other dipping more.  So the quarter inch might be from one corner being off line and and one corner straight.  On the LT-30 I once had, we had a similar situation.  I don't know about the LT-15.  It looks like it's standing on each rail.  With the portables' cantilever, it is the side away from the rails that dips the most.  Hard to make good boards with a problem like that. 

If you can pull a string tight and check it to the blade along the travel, you might see what's doin'.  Check the deck and the head travel for straight. 

Like I said, don't know about your saw. 
W-M LT40HD -- Siding Attachment -- Lathe-Mizer -- Ancient PTO Buzz Saw

============================

Happy for no reason.

Wallee

Quote from: deadfall on August 09, 2015, 01:18:01 AM
Can you sight down the cant or stretch a string and see if the dip is equal on both edges of the cant.  If it's off a quarter inch in the center, that's an eighth on both sides if it's consistent across the whole cut.  But one corner can be straighter and the other dipping more.  So the quarter inch might be from one corner being off line and and one corner straight.  On the LT-30 I once had, we had a similar situation.  I don't know about the LT-15.  It looks like it's standing on each rail.  With the portables' cantilever, it is the side away from the rails that dips the most.  Hard to make good boards with a problem like that. 

If you can pull a string tight and check it to the blade along the travel, you might see what's doin'.  Check the deck and the head travel for straight. 

Like I said, don't know about your saw.
I will pull a string tomorrow and see what I can see. I am learning so you probably know more than me! lol. I am hoping I can figure this one out quick, because it is annoying!
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

Kbeitz

Best way is using a cheap kids Lazar light.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

ladylake

 
If your cant is thin in the middle you need more support in the middle of the mill, if thinner on the ends you need more support on the ends, no need to mess around with strings or lasers the cant will tell you where the mill needs support.  If there is stress in the log it will do what it wants to do.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

WDH

I would pull a string to make sure that the bed supports all line up perfectly.  Do it on alongside each long rail, and in the middle.  If they line up properly, the problem is that stress in the log is causing the cant to move, thereby causing the deviation.  If it is stress, the only solution is to turn the cant 180 degrees after every cut or two. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

ScottInCabot

I would think that no piece of timber will ever be perfect.....the natural tension released when cutting will make the thin/thickness move(thus making you think the mill is 'off')



Or maybe I'm wrong ;D



ScottinCabot
Timber framing RULES!

Magicman

There are a few that are perfect and then there are the others.........
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Wallee

Quote from: ScottInCabot on August 09, 2015, 09:05:26 AM
I would think that no piece of timber will ever be perfect.....the natural tension released when cutting will make the thin/thickness move(thus making you think the mill is 'off')



Or maybe I'm wrong ;D




ScottinCabot

Ha ha maybe I am overthinking it a bit, but Im good with a 1/16th here and there but 1/4 seems a little much. I am going to see if I can get some more support in those sections today and see what it does.
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

deadfall

If it was just one cant, then maybe we are jumping the gun here.  I shouldn't believe everything I see in the movies.   :D
W-M LT40HD -- Siding Attachment -- Lathe-Mizer -- Ancient PTO Buzz Saw

============================

Happy for no reason.

Wallee

Quote from: deadfall on August 09, 2015, 11:32:32 AM
If it was just one cant, then maybe we are jumping the gun here.  I shouldn't believe everything I see in the movies.   :D
2 cants in a row
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

beenthere

Wallee
What did you find out when you pulled a string?

And when you pull a string on the bed one side then the other, and measure from the blade down to the string as you moved the head down the track, what were your measurements. This takes the movement of the cant or movement from a wandering blade out of the picture.

Any dips near the middle where you were measuring narrow locations in your video?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

MartyParsons

Hello,
  A level and a string will drive a man crazy. I would measure from the blade ( blade must be tracked in and tight to proper tension) to each bed rail. Measure on the drive side of the blade and from the idle side of the blade. Document each measurement on the bed rail with a sharpie or marker. To make things easier do it at a whole # like 15" or 18" Use a steel rule something you can make square to the bed rail not forward or back but straight up. I am not liking a tape measure to do this. The measurement should be 1/16" higher on the idle side of the blade. If every bed rail is the same the wood has stress and is moving while you cut. If every bed rail is not the same. ( I guess the bed would be 1/4" lower in the center then your beams you have it supported with would be the issue? But if it just started then I would guess it would be the reaction wood in the log.

Hope this helps.
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Wallee

Quote from: MartyParsons on August 09, 2015, 09:50:35 PM
Hello,
  A level and a string will drive a man crazy. I would measure from the blade ( blade must be tracked in and tight to proper tension) to each bed rail. Measure on the drive side of the blade and from the idle side of the blade. Document each measurement on the bed rail with a sharpie or marker. To make things easier do it at a whole # like 15" or 18" Use a steel rule something you can make square to the bed rail not forward or back but straight up. I am not liking a tape measure to do this. The measurement should be 1/16" higher on the idle side of the blade. If every bed rail is the same the wood has stress and is moving while you cut. If every bed rail is not the same. ( I guess the bed would be 1/4" lower in the center then your beams you have it supported with would be the issue? But if it just started then I would guess it would be the reaction wood in the log.

Hope this helps.
Marty
Couldn't figure out how to attach and use the string on the bed to be honest, so I used this method here. I noticed that the mill was 3/16 out on one bunk. So I shimmed it in that area. Was going to check it with a log but then this happened  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(



 


 

This wasn't welded properly from the factory..... Completely missed the weld and this is what happens when something isn't properly checked before it leaves. I will be calling the place in the morning and seeing what they are going to do to fix this, hopefully send me a new one without a hassle overnight.
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

Tree Dan

Yes forget the stringline...Measure every bunk to the blade all the way down.
You may have dropped a log on the bed and the bunk went out of adjustment (Down)
Remember the saw head gets pulled down 1/16" on the open side,
as the blade enters the log.

I could not hear your video, but you would see the stress in the wood as your cutting if that was the problem
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

Tree Dan

Do you have a picture of the frame it broke away from?
Your not having much luck....It will get better
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

Wallee

Quote from: Tree Dan on August 09, 2015, 10:42:41 PM
Do you have a picture of the frame it broke away from?
Your not having much luck....It will get better
Thanks for the words of encouragement! I do have a pic!


 
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

rjwoelk

I have a dislike  for those new style clamps :( give me one they used before these.   They were a lot quicker to engage and one did not have binding of threads, because they had no threads :D. I have found some old style and changing over. 8)l
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

SawyerBrown

I'm completely not following the train of thought on bed rail not being flat.  That may be a problem, but it's not going to result in the "swayback" that Wallee is seeing in the cant if it's clamped in tightly.  The only way I can see that happening is if it's NOT clamped in tightly, the middle rails are high, and the cant tips as you're cutting through.

I'm betting it's stress in the log.  I'd make sure the rails are flat (not necessarily dead level, Wallee, that isn't critical ...) by using a long straight 2x4 or other straightedge, put your "swayback" side back up, and make a pass at 8 3/4" (trimming the excess off the ends and just skimming the middle).  If it's stress, that should straighten it out.
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

Wallee

Talked with woodmizer today. They are overnighting me a log clamp, so that is hopefully going to be here in the am  8) . As For the mill bed I worked on it today some, and it looks to be out 2/16 on one particular bunk toward the center. I tried jacking and lifting to no avail as it would just lift the entire mill no matter where I placed my jack. I tightened up all of the bed bolts where the sections attach and when I get my log clamp installed I will be trying another log and seeing what I can make of it. Hopefully I will have her up and going correctly soon.
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

stanwelch

On the 10 foot extension I made for my LT15, the bunks are a little lower than the other mill bunks. I have a strip of SS flat stock that I place on the extension bunk to level the end of any log that reaches these bunks. Maybe Woodmizer SS caps for an LT40 would fit
Woodworker, Woodmizer LT15, Stihl 026, MS261CM and 460 chainsaws, John Deere 5410 Tractor 540 Loader,Forks & Grapple, Econoline 6 ton tilt bed trailer

Wallee

Quote from: stanwelch on August 11, 2015, 07:26:32 AM
On the 10 foot extension I made for my LT15, the bunks are a little lower than the other mill bunks. I have a strip of SS flat stock that I place on the extension bunk to level the end of any log that reaches these bunks. Maybe Woodmizer SS caps for an LT40 would fit
Maybe, but it shouldn't be off from the factory right ???
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

Verticaltrx

On an LT15 either your bed isn't flat (high or low in the middle) or there is stress in the log, those are the only two options I know of for you problem.

When  I first set mine up the ground wasn't very stable under the mill and I didn't have adequate cribbing under it to support the logs. I was having similar problems, i.e. cants that were thick in the middle or cants that are thin in the middle (from the bed shifting).

To be sure this is the problem, mill another cant and check all four sides. If the bed is low or high in the middle your cant will be off on all four sides. If it's only off on one or two, then it's probably just stress in the log.

If you need to adjust it, try just slightly loosening the bolts that clamp the bed  sections together, readjust the bed, then reclamp it.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Wallee

Ok, Someone please help me lol. I put slabs up and skimmed off one side, flipped them over, took off the other side to make 1x6 boards. I got the same problem........ 6" ends and a 5 13/16" center......................... Mill is level! But I noticed after cutting them the center bunks ( the two middle of the four that were under the slabs) were not touching the cant and the two ends were touching, which that makes since considering after the sawhead passes it cuts more out of the centers. Its 3/16 off some way some how.
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

beenthere

Sounds like you are experiencing tension stress in the boards, that when edging off the first edge the board is under tension on the remaining bark side. Thus only the ends touch as the middle has raised 3/16" when flipping the other edge up.
Is the edge from the 2nd cut straight ? and the first edge curved?
Next time, site down the board to see if it is straight or has a curve. Also can pull a string.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Wallee

Quote from: beenthere on August 12, 2015, 12:27:57 AM
Sounds like you are experiencing tension stress in the boards, that when edging off the first edge the board is under tension on the remaining bark side. Thus only the ends touch as the middle has raised 3/16" when flipping the other edge up.
Is the edge from the 2nd cut straight ? and the first edge curved?
Next time, site down the board to see if it is straight or has a curve. Also can pull a string.
They are sitting on the mill I will pull a string and see if one side is straight tomorrow!
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

ladylake

Quote from: Wallee on August 12, 2015, 12:14:51 AM
Ok, Someone please help me lol. I put slabs up and skimmed off one side, flipped them over, took off the other side to make 1x6 boards. I got the same problem........ 6" ends and a 5 13/16" center......................... Mill is level! But I noticed after cutting them the center bunks ( the two middle of the four that were under the slabs) were not touching the cant and the two ends were touching, which that makes since considering after the sawhead passes it cuts more out of the centers. Its 3/16 off some way some how.

Try jacking or shimming up the center of your mill 3/16 of a inch, throw  the string or laser away.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Verticaltrx

Your issue isn't that the mill isn't 'level', it's that it is not 'flat'. Go hang your level back on the wall in the shop, it's just throwing you off. If your boards are thin in the middle, the bed isn't flat, ie the center of the bed is lower than the rest. The log, cant, or boards are being supported at the ends and as the saw head moves along it dips down as it goes past the middle, leaving a thinner spot.

Sounds like you need to jack up the center portion of the mill by about 3/32" (half of the amount your boards are off, since you took a cut off each side.)

The best way to do this is a tight string stretched from one end of the mill to the other. You need to cut three little spacer blocks about an inch thick (thickness doesn't matter as long  as they are all the same), set a block on each end bunk to run your string over and pull it TIGHT. This should give you a string that is about 1" above the bed the whole way, then use your third block as a gauge to check the other bunks, it should just barley fit at each bunk. Adjust the bed accordingly. I would first check down the center of the bed, then you could check along the two edges as well as the two diagonals if you are so inclined.

Remember, the bed being 'flat' is what you need, 'level' side to side and front to back is not as important.

Edit: Also be sure that the footing under the mill isn't giving way to the weight of the log/mill head as it passes. It's possible for everything to be flat without any weight on the bed, then when you load a log, or the mill head goes along the center is sinking  just slightly due to the weight.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

WDH

What I did was loosen the bolts between the bed sections in the middle and shim the low rails until they are all perfectly lined up, then re-tighted the bolts. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Wallee

Quote from: Verticaltrx on August 12, 2015, 06:58:57 AM
Your issue isn't that the mill isn't 'level', it's that it is not 'flat'. Go hang your level back on the wall in the shop, it's just throwing you off. If your boards are thin in the middle, the bed isn't flat, ie the center of the bed is lower than the rest. The log, cant, or boards are being supported at the ends and as the saw head moves along it dips down as it goes past the middle, leaving a thinner spot.

Sounds like you need to jack up the center portion of the mill by about 3/32" (half of the amount your boards are off, since you took a cut off each side.)

The best way to do this is a tight string stretched from one end of the mill to the other. You need to cut three little spacer blocks about an inch thick (thickness doesn't matter as long  as they are all the same), set a block on each end bunk to run your string over and pull it TIGHT. This should give you a string that is about 1" above the bed the whole way, then use your third block as a gauge to check the other bunks, it should just barley fit at each bunk. Adjust the bed accordingly. I would first check down the center of the bed, then you could check along the two edges as well as the two diagonals if you are so inclined.

Remember, the bed being 'flat' is what you need, 'level' side to side and front to back is not as important.

Edit: Also be sure that the footing under the mill isn't giving way to the weight of the log/mill head as it passes. It's possible for everything to be flat without any weight on the bed, then when you load a log, or the mill head goes along the center is sinking  just slightly due to the weight.
Going to check into this tomorrow!
Quote from: WDH on August 12, 2015, 07:25:36 AM
What I did was loosen the bolts between the bed sections in the middle and shim the low rails until they are all perfectly lined up, then re-tighted the bolts. 
I dont have a board running down the center of the mill, just supported on the two edges. Should I have rails in the center?
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

customsawyer

I am going to throw one more thing at you. While I am working with the logs and cants I have a tendency to over clamp things which will bring them up off the bed rails. I am not saying you are doing this but when you are talking about a problem like this and then show us a broken clamp it could be something to look at. On a cant the size of the one in the video I hardly clamp at all.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Wallee

Quote from: customsawyer on August 14, 2015, 06:22:52 AM
I am going to throw one more thing at you. While I am working with the logs and cants I have a tendency to over clamp things which will bring them up off the bed rails. I am not saying you are doing this but when you are talking about a problem like this and then show us a broken clamp it could be something to look at. On a cant the size of the one in the video I hardly clamp at all.
Honestly man I think you might be a little right here. I am going to square up one here in a few hours and see, I think it's a possibility for sure.
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

deadfall

I like to clamp low as I can on a cant, but it's so easy to wedge it up a fraction.  So, I like to look closely at how it's sitting on each bunk.  I don't even want any sawdust on the bunks under a cant.
W-M LT40HD -- Siding Attachment -- Lathe-Mizer -- Ancient PTO Buzz Saw

============================

Happy for no reason.

Wallee

Quote from: deadfall on August 14, 2015, 12:42:00 PM
I like to clamp low as I can on a cant, but it's so easy to wedge it up a fraction.  So, I like to look closely at how it's sitting on each bunk.  I don't even want any sawdust on the bunks under a cant.
If I was double clamping, would it make it take more out of the center like it is? Seems like it would just cut off square in my head ???
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

deadfall

Once again, I am ignorant of the LT-15's operations.  I have only had mills with single clamps.  More importantly, seeing that the cant is sitting flat across each bunk before making a pass is what I'm getting at.  If the cant is planted firmly and squarely and the cut isn't straight, then either the bed isn't straight, or the head is dipping or climbing along its travel.  There are two things involved here if the cant is in even contact, and not moving the bed with its weight. 
W-M LT40HD -- Siding Attachment -- Lathe-Mizer -- Ancient PTO Buzz Saw

============================

Happy for no reason.

Magicman

Do not overlook MartyParson's Reply #12. 

Marty is a Wood-Mizer Dealer.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

LeeB

Quote from: Verticaltrx on August 12, 2015, 06:58:57 AM
Your issue isn't that the mill isn't 'level', it's that it is not 'flat'. Go hang your level back on the wall in the shop, it's just throwing you off. If your boards are thin in the middle, the bed isn't flat, ie the center of the bed is lower than the rest. The log, cant, or boards are being supported at the ends and as the saw head moves along it dips down as it goes past the middle, leaving a thinner spot.

Sounds like you need to jack up the center portion of the mill by about 3/32" (half of the amount your boards are off, since you took a cut off each side.)

The best way to do this is a tight string stretched from one end of the mill to the other. You need to cut three little spacer blocks about an inch thick (thickness doesn't matter as long  as they are all the same), set a block on each end bunk to run your string over and pull it TIGHT. This should give you a string that is about 1" above the bed the whole way, then use your third block as a gauge to check the other bunks, it should just barley fit at each bunk. Adjust the bed accordingly. I would first check down the center of the bed, then you could check along the two edges as well as the two diagonals if you are so inclined.

Remember, the bed being 'flat' is what you need, 'level' side to side and front to back is not as important.

Edit: Also be sure that the footing under the mill isn't giving way to the weight of the log/mill head as it passes. It's possible for everything to be flat without any weight on the bed, then when you load a log, or the mill head goes along the center is sinking  just slightly due to the weight.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Wallee

Adjusted and shimmed the bed a bit and cut a cant. got it down to only a 2/16 difference. Going to shim it a bit more tomorrow and hopefully its good to go! I believe it was like some said and due to the mill head passing over and causing the bed to slightly drop 8)
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

ladylake

Quote from: Wallee on August 15, 2015, 01:23:20 AM
Adjusted and shimmed the bed a bit and cut a cant. got it down to only a 2/16 difference. Going to shim it a bit more tomorrow and hopefully its good to go! I believe it was like some said and due to the mill head passing over and causing the bed to slightly drop 8)


This was mentioned in reply NO 4.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Wallee

Quote from: ladylake on August 15, 2015, 02:52:04 PM
Quote from: Wallee on August 15, 2015, 01:23:20 AM
Adjusted and shimmed the bed a bit and cut a cant. got it down to only a 2/16 difference. Going to shim it a bit more tomorrow and hopefully its good to go! I believe it was like some said and due to the mill head passing over and causing the bed to slightly drop 8)
Welp, went and messed with the mill today and am now more frustrated than ever. never could shim it to get the 2/16 dive to the center out and it at times is still going to 3/16. Only thing I can think is maybe its blade tension??? I called woodmizer and talked to a guy for technical support and honestly he said nothing that you guys hadn't already covered. I am going to call back tomorrow and see if I can get someone else to help. I measured the blade to the deck from both sides of the cant and it was exactly the same from all the way down the mill bed to the bunks, maybe a 1/16th off or close to in a place or so but that could have been more or less my eye. Needless to say it was by no means 3/16 off anywhere. The bed is dang near perfectly level and completely supported by the 4x6's solid. Also on two cants in the past 2 days it has dove into the cut and cut out a deep whole in the cant and then dug back up to where it should be before the end, like a 1' long depression, one was on the mill head end and the other occured on the tail end, What could cause this??


This was mentioned in reply NO 4.   Steve
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

deadfall

Just an idea for diagnostic purposes.  To eliminate much possibility that it has anything to do with the weight of the cant, could you clamp some boards flat on the deck and sandwich a thin board, say a one inch board standing on edge at various places across the bunks, and take passes with the board on the right side of the bed, and then on the left, and see if the variances are still there or have changed?  This way, blade tension would be eliminated, as the single thin board you're cutting would not cause diving or climbing pull.  Then measure the width of the board after each pass and see what differences there are on opposite sides of the bed.  If it is still sawing crooked, but on one side of the bed and not the other, then the bed might be flexing or the rails are not true. 
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ladylake

 
Good idea Deadfall, also using that single long 1" board make a cut taking off 1/4 in or so at slow speed then turn it over and see how it lays on your bunks, if not hitting them all something is wrong with the bed or frame . Like  Deadfall said this will eliminate the blade diving or rising and stress in the log.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

terrifictimbersllc

Other "tools":
- once there are square edges, one can sight along the cant to see dipping or crown, to determine whether the mill is cutting in a straight line or whether adjustments to rail and mill head support along the length of mill head travel are needed.  This is a more sensitive and true measure than measuring thickness as it depends only on one face of the wood.

- recutting a cant by just a little bit, say 1/4", so long as the blade is in the wood not skimming, rules out most stress movement and gives a good measure of the straightness of the mill support rails
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Verticaltrx

Quote from: Wallee on August 17, 2015, 12:38:19 AM
Welp, went and messed with the mill today and am now more frustrated than ever. never could shim it to get the 2/16 dive to the center out and it at times is still going to 3/16. Only thing I can think is maybe its blade tension??? I called woodmizer and talked to a guy for technical support and honestly he said nothing that you guys hadn't already covered. I am going to call back tomorrow and see if I can get someone else to help. I measured the blade to the deck from both sides of the cant and it was exactly the same from all the way down the mill bed to the bunks, maybe a 1/16th off or close to in a place or so but that could have been more or less my eye. Needless to say it was by no means 3/16 off anywhere. The bed is dang near perfectly level and completely supported by the 4x6's solid. Also on two cants in the past 2 days it has dove into the cut and cut out a deep whole in the cant and then dug back up to where it should be before the end, like a 1' long depression, one was on the mill head end and the other occured on the tail end, What could cause this??


Not sure what else to add on your first problem, but the blade diving and rising  is probably due to one(or more)  of the following:

-blade tension too loose
-feed rate too fast
-dull blade
-something log related (tension, knots, etc.)
-blade guide out too far

It's possible one of those could be causing your cants to be thin in the middle if you have tried  everything else, but that's kind of a long shot. With a new blade, proper band tension, blade guide set right next to the log/cant, try sawing a different size/species than you have been, a nice straight log without knots and then report back.

The learning curve is steep but you'll have it figured out and sawing good lumber before long.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Magicman

Quote from: Wallee on August 17, 2015, 12:38:19 AMAlso on two cants in the past 2 days it has dove into the cut and cut out a deep whole in the cant and then dug back up to where it should be before the end, like a 1' long depression, one was on the mill head end and the other occured on the tail end, What could cause this??
Dull or otherwise compromised blades such as pitch buildup will cause the blade to dive.  Also, not enough blade or drive belt tension will cause uneven cuts.
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beenthere

Doing as deadfall suggests, and starting with a dimension board that has a straight edge, make those initial passes without the blade running.  Certainly can take the blade condition out of the equation that way and just observe the integrity of the mill base and the head travel. Dry passes can give answers to some of the questions.

Then add sawing if necessary to duplicate the apparent problem.
Good luck with this... am thinking you are close to getting it figured out. Don't be too tough on yourself when you do..   ;D
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WDH

I believe that your drive belt tension might be too loose.  It needs to be checked.  Woodmizer offers a tool to measure the correct drive belt tension.  It is very important to have the correct drive belt tension. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Wallee

Quote from: WDH on August 17, 2015, 04:20:32 PM
I believe that your drive belt tension might be too loose.  It needs to be checked.  Woodmizer offers a tool to measure the correct drive belt tension.  It is very important to have the correct drive belt tension.

I finally cut a good cant! Out of persimmon! WDH you are correct. I called my local woodmizer guy and he told me a few things to do. First I had to adjust the drive belt tension as it had stretched since it was new. Second I put on a sharp blade. And lastly I adjusted my blade tension as it was running a full turn too loose. LEARNING everyday!!!! lol its a whole new world  8)
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

Magicman

As I outlined in Reply #45.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

sandsawmill14

hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Wallee

Quote from: Magicman on August 17, 2015, 10:15:10 PM
As I outlined in Reply #45.   ;D
Sorry Magicman, I just noticed that! You were right!
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

WDH

I will take the persimmon if you don't want it  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

Wallee, the dialing in and learning curve can be exasperating, especially when you have just spent $$$ that you convinced your wife was the right thing to do.  :D  I have a warm feeling that your fun is now just beginning.   smiley_thumbsup
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Wallee

Quote from: Magicman on August 18, 2015, 08:38:21 AM
Wallee, the dialing in and learning curve can be exasperating, especially when you have just spent $$$ that you convinced your wife was the right thing to do.  :D  I have a warm feeling that your fun is now just beginning.   smiley_thumbsup
I believe your right Magicman! It's been a go and I am sure I will learn a ton more real soon lol
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

Tree Dan

Glad to hear things are getting better for you.
And the blade isue is figured out.
But remember the mill dosent need to be level to cut straight.
To set your bunks up on the mill bed you need to measure from the top of the bunk to the blade...on every bunk.
There is a ajustment for this and you should not need any shims.
Onces its set your good to saw.
Nice Truck by the way.
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