A Very Large Tree

[Martha White Nelson]

     

The lumber industry played a major role in the accumulation of wealth by families in the south. 

   Although magnificent yellow pine was a huge attraction for the lumber companies, this photo from the late 1800s in Northern Louisiana shows one of the massive cypress tress felled with the Kisatchie National Forest in the background. Can you imagine cutting down something that size with a cross-cut saw? Wonder how long it took back then... Photo was shared by a friend.

[Ianab]

Can you imagine cutting down something that size with a cross-cut saw? Wonder how long it took back then..

They measured production in days per tree, not tree per day  :D

And cutting it down was only the start, you still had to mill it. 

[drobertson]

Just amazing timber back in the early days of this country, and others as well,, My first thought was the appetite that must have followed that evening ;D

[clww]

I see these old photos and am awed by both felling and moving the pieces afterwards. 

[Pine Ridge]

Now that is a big un !!!!!!

[Magicman]

Thanks Martha, but I am wondering what is wrong with that picture??   

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I know, I see the picture....but its almost unbelievable. 

[drobertson]

Like where is the stump? or how the man on the ladder is holding that bow saw? leaning towards them short folks or the lumber stacked in the back ground? ,

[Andy White]

Mart,
If you want big trees, and some locally, go to Highlands Woodworking website, and look in the video section for the six part series of the Lee Tigner . Some of those shots are from southwest Louisiana, and east Texas. Big longleaf old growth . One picture in Dibol can still be seen in the old downtown .      Andy

[pabst79]

Did any trees other then Redwood actually get that big? I've seen some pics of old growth stuff that is maybe 60% of the size in the pic, but wow.. Seems the photo was doctored a bit, back then or with the help of photo shop? To be honest the saw is what doesn't seem to look real to me. I don't think a saw that long could be started to make a cut, way too flimsy.  say_what

[clearcut]

The photo appears to be:

    End of Mark Twain Log, Diameter 18 Ft., 2 men and woman posed with 20 ft. saw blade at end of gigantic log.   
    Camp Badger, Tulare Co., Calif. c1892.
    Photo by Charles C. Curtis.
    http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/cph.3b01305
    Library of Congress Catalog Number 2005696243
    Reproduction Number  LC-USZ62-53334 (b&w film copy neg.)

National Geographic attributes the image to N.E. Beckwith but still identifies it as the Mark Twain Tree


The Mark Twain Trees was a 1,350 year old giant sequoia sawn over 8 days in what is now the Big Stump Grove of Kings Canyon National Park. The tree was cut so that rounds could be displayed at the American Museum of Natural History in New York and the London's Natural History Museum. The Mark Twain was reported to be 331' in height, 13.0' diameter at 10' above the ground, and 16.9' in diameter at the base. The stump is still visible.

The tree was felled by Bill Mills and S.D. Phips for the Kings River Lumber company which was in business from 1890 to 1892. Like many of the companies that tried to log giant sequoia, they went bankrupt because of the cost of cutting and moving such large trees. Most of these sequoias ended up as shingles, fence posts, and grape stakes. It is estimated that one tree could provide 3000 fence posts and about 650,000 shingles.



 



 

[Brucer]

A few observations:

40 years ago a local sawmill owner donated the butt end of a Western Red Cedar log to the local museum. They counted the rings back toward the centre and figured the tree started growing in 1601. The piece of log is 6' long. It measures 8' diameter at the big end and 5' diameter at the small end. That gives you some idea of the amount of flair in such a short length.

The original picture in this post shows a straight cross cut with no face cut. The picture was probably taken after the bottom was cut off. The face cut would likely have a 20° to 30° opening, so the hinge would be completely broken before the tree fell very far. The tree would have a lot of momentum away from the stump when it hit the ground. From the angle of the photograph, I suspect the photographer is actually on the stump.

Usually the cross cuts would be started with shorter saws, with the sawyers standing on planks wedged into the sides of the log. As the sawing progressed a longer saw (or saws) would be used.

It was very common in those days to have women and children pose on or beside a really large tree. I've got several photos of huge WRC logs on the west coast with the fallers' families posing with the fallen trees.

[terry f]

    My guess was California also, I don't think a tree could grow that size anywhere else. I understand how the coastal redwoods can get that big, but its hard to understand how something on the dry side of the state can get that big (time I guess).

[Magicman]

Thanks clearcut for the research and clarification. 

[pabst79]

Thanks for the insight, simply amazing. I never thought about using smaller saws all the way across to get that huge crosscut started. Learn something new every time I log in.  :P

[LeeB]

How did they clear the dust from out of the cut?

[clearcut]

Many of the large trees were felled with augers. The face cut was made by axe. The back cut used a series of auger holes drilled to remove most of the material and finished with cross cut saws and wedges. If you look closely at the Falling of the Mark Twain Tree photo, it appears that some of the back cut was made by axe.

I believe the long saw in the photo was used to cut the finished rounds once the tree was on the ground. The Mark Twain Tree was felled specifically because it was so symmetrical that it would make a good museum display.


Giant sequoias grow large mostly due to age, they live a long time, but also with fast growth that does not seem to slow even with old age. If they are on a good micro-site, areas with available subsurface water, they simply never stop growing like a young tree. Height growth tapers off after about 400 years. The General Sherman tree is both the largest in volume (52,600 cuft), and the fastest growing tree in terms of volume. It is estimated to be growing somewhere between 40-51 cubic feet per year.

[Den Socling]

Grape stakes! Those people had no moral compass!  >:(

[clearcut]

By 1890, California was producing about 11 million cases of wine per year. Because of the transcontinental railroad, that wine was distributed through out the country. Those grapes had to hang off of something. Also at this time, phylloxera had devastated European vineyards so there was money to be made. By 1900 there were somewhere between 175,000 - 200,000 acres in grape production. That's a lot of grape stakes. Supply and demand.

Old growth giant sequoia is very brash. Many of the trees shattered on impact. If you look closely at the Falling of the Mark Twain Tree image, you can see the bed they prepared and line with branches. The lumber was not very strong. On the other hand, old growth heartwood is very rot resistant. It splits straight and made really good grape stakes.


Currently there are 928,000 acres in grapes (wine, table, and raisin) in California.

[beenthere]

clearcut
So it made the most sense to use the material available, and was smart for that particular period of time.

Might be interesting if we could crystal-ball and know what our future 2-3 generations will be saying about us and what we do with our wood and other resources. ;)  Might not be too flattering.

Wonder if we will still exist from eating roundup-ready sweetcorn ??

[clearcut]

People at the time recognized the folly of felling huge old growth sequoias for relatively low value products. Most of the companies that tried to harvest old growth giant sequoia failed within a few years.

Preservation of sequoia groves was one of the drivers of the conservation movement, and the development of the National Park system.

[Brucer]

How did they clear the dust from out of the cut?

Think about the rocking action of the blade. Guy on one side pulls the saw towards him. That side drops down into the cut, cutting new wood and dragging out sawdust left by the previous stroke. The other side lifts up and leaves any sawdust in the far side of the kerf sitting there. When the guy on the other side takes his turn, he's pulling out the sawdust on his side of the kerf.

The saw looks like it was made from two shorter saws welded together. I doubt it was very efficient at cutting.

[LeeB]

Would not the saw have to be half again longer than the diameter of the tree to effectively remove the dust?

[Ianab]

From Clearcuts post...

The tree was felled by Bill Mills and S.D. Phips for the Kings River Lumber company which was in business from 1890 to 1892. Like many of the companies that tried to log giant sequoia, they went bankrupt because of the cost of cutting and moving such large trees.

So it's probably fair to assume they DID have problems sawing the log, to the extent they went broke doing it.

[beenthere]

Would not the saw have to be half again longer than the diameter of the tree to effectively remove the dust?

Don't think so.. on each draw stroke (albeit short), some sawdust will come out of the cut.. might be slow and time consuming, but there was no alternative in those times.

[mesquite buckeye]

The funny thing about sequoias is they are super fast growing. The brittle thing is in my opinion a problem of old age. I've seen some really nice ones close to 100 years old and already 3 feet thick and well over 100 ft. I think under the right environment and management they could be used like redwood to produce some pretty high dollar lumber. ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Far as I know, nobody is doing it. :(

[clearcut]

Young-growth giant sequoia is very different from old-growth. The lumber has similar properties to young-growth redwood.

Given good growing conditions, it is a fast growing tree. It tends to hold branches so pruning may be necessary for high quality lumber production. It is one of the few trees that is highly density dependent in height growth as well as diameter growth. For most temperate species, height growth is mostly a function of site quality (site index), while diameter growth is dependent on density. For giant sequoia, both are impacted by too close spacing.

Outside of its native range, giant sequoia is susceptible to Botryosphaeria spp. and Armillaria spp. in young-growth trees.

I don't know why it is not planted more extensively.

[terry f]

   I plant some every year, as a yard tree they really take off, in the wild around here (to dry) they don't do much. The Incense Cedar I plant take years to get going, but really take off after they get established.

[Brucer]

Would not the saw have to be half again longer than the diameter of the tree to effectively remove the dust?

As beenthere says, a little sawdust will get dragged out on each stroke. Stuff near the centre gets pulled a little way out. Then on the return stroke the rocking action of the saw lifts it above the partly removed stuff so it just sits there waiting for the next stroke to pull it further.

As for effectively remove the dust, well not all that effectively. Crosscut saws work best when their stroke is the same as the log diameter. There's a limit to how far you can pull the saw without shifting your feet (my limit was about 4 feet) so if the log is bigger than that, you have to rely on the saw pulling the chips out only part way on each stroke.

[mesquite buckeye]

There are 1 or 2 sequoias growing in Ramsey Canyon in the Huachuca Mountains of SE Arizona in a Nature Conservancy preserve planted by the previous owners. Very happy growing at about 5000 ft elevation and a nearby year-round flowing stream. Getting fat. ;D  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

I tried them in Missouri in the 90's just to see what they would do. Took them 1-2 seasons to die. They took the winters just fine, but weren't crazy about drought and really got sad when it got hot in the summer. :( :( :( :'(