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New member with steam powered Lane mill saying hello

Started by metalshaper, July 20, 2015, 03:11:43 PM

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metalshaper

 

 

Unloading the whole assembly at the farm. 

metalshaper


metalshaper


dustyhat

Im glad thats not mine , because i cant afford to work on it , but i would love to get to work on it , and bring that beast back to life. i just love to tinker with old iron.

fishfighter

So cool. Brings back members when  I was a kid that I used to play in my Grandpaw's Cotton Gin. It was powered by a two cly diesel Fairbank. Belts ran all over the place. Sad part was, it ran a saw mill too which killed my grandpaw. Momma was only 13 at the time. The engine still stands in place as it did almost 100 years ago.

samandothers


bandmiller2

Brian, your engine  is almost a dead ringer for mine except mine was on wheels. I bought mine from Willie Zagray in Colchester Ct. back in the eighties, it was used on a local sawmill. Stan Zagray had a foundry and manufactured  sawmills I think he called them Amsted mills or something like that. Who made your boiler I can't quite make out the name. Be carefull those boilers are now about 100 years old and theirs nothing more vicious than high pressure steam. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Kbeitz

Thats some serous  Hp...
Whats it going to be? A saw dust burner ?
You got some real weight there.
Guessing 50-75 Hp ?
How big is the boiler going to be ?


Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ljohnsaw

John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

mad murdock

Welcome metalshaper! What is the size of the engine?  Boiler looks big enough for 50+ hp. That will be a lot of torque available when you get it going.   8)
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

steamsawyer

Thanks for the pictures metalshaper.

The mill looks to be in very good condition. I'm trying to figure out the engine. It's a nice heavy center crank but not real familiar looking. The boiler doesn't look real big, and no steam dome either. When you get a chance maybe you can get some measurements and we can guess at the HP.... Bore and stroke, and number, length, and diameter of the boiler tubes. Maybe the size of the firebox too. I'd like to know the diameter and face of the flywheels too. Looks like about a 2" Pickering Ball Ranger, that is what I have on my Leffel, one of the best governors, in its day.

I hope the inside of the boiler is in good condition. You will need to look at all the stay bolts and ultrasound the plates before you put a fire in it. Looks like you are going to need a few other items like injectors and water glass and maybe some re piping. Be sure to use all double strength black iron pipe... No galvanized.

I wish I could be there to help you go over it. Make friends with some steam guys up there and I'm sure you can get all the help you need for an inspection.

There are some good old engine sites out there too like Harry's old Engine and Smokstak.

Alan
J. A. Vance circular sawmill, 52" blade, powered by a 70 HP 9 1/2 x 10 James Leffel portable steam engine.

Inside this tired old mans body is just a little boy that wants to go out and play.

Great minds think alike.....  Does your butt itch too?

Alan Rudd
Steam Punk Extraordinaire.

47sawdust

I know nothing about steam engines.What is the method for testing old equipment before putting it back in service?
I don't need a lengthy lesson,just wondering how you steamers keep it safe.
Thanks,Mick
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Kbeitz

Boiler Hydrostatic Testing


There is a speical water pump most are hand pumps that pump water into the boiler.
The boiler and process lines must be completely vented in order to fill them with water.  If your running like 75 psi them you would pump like 150psi water into the boiler.
Or 1½ times the design pressure.
the water cant explode.

1. Open the steam drum vent valve and gag the safety valves in accordance with safety valve manufacturer's recommendations. In lieu of gagging, the safety valves may be removed and replaced with test plugs or blind flanges.

2. Open the vents on the interconnecting piping. Close steam outlet valve.

3. Isolate pressure switches, gauge glasses or control components that are not intended to be subjected to a hydrostatic test.

4. Fill the system with treated water in accordance with recommendations from the Clients water treatment consultant. (Refer to section entitled "Water treatment

Considerations". The test water temperature range must be 70°F minimum to 120°F maximum (100°F to 120°F water temperature is preferred). Care should be taken so that all air is vented while the equipment is being filled. Fill the equipment until water overflows the vent, then close the vent.

5. Apply pressure slowly. The recommended rate of pressure increase is less than 50 psi per minute. Proper control must be maintained so that pressure does not

exceed the desired setting of the local steam boiler inspecting agency. Do not subject any pressure part to more than 1½ times the design pressure rating of any

component.

6. When the proper test pressure is reached, inspection in accordance with the test objective can begin. Examine the system for any leaks. If no leaks are visible,

hold the system in a pressurized static condition for a period long enough to satisfy the code requirement.

7. Upon completion of the test, release pressure slowly through a small drain valve. Then fully open vents and drains when the pressure drops to 20 psig. Particular


8. If temporary handhole or manway gaskets were used for the test, they should be replaced with regular service gaskets before readying the unit for operation.

Gaskets should never be reused. Replace gage glass if necessary and make sure that the gage cocks are open. Remove all blanks or gags from safety valves and install relief valves, if removed.

9. Additional inspection at this time by the Authorized inspector will determine whether the installation including piping arrangements, valve gauges and controls

and other equipment on the unit meets Code and/or other jurisdictional requirements.

10. Refer to the "Summary of valve positions" for recommended positioning of the various valves during hydrostatic testing.

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ianab

Don't know much about steam boilers either, but I'm guessing that's what Steamsawyer was talking about with visual and ultrasound inspection?

Visual picks up the obvious corrosion or cracks, and an ultrasound finds the thin spots and hidden cracks.

I remember them doing a survey of an oilfield FPSO (converted supertanker moored offshore) when I was working for a local oil company. Although it looked OK, some of the steel plates had almost corroded though. Well one actually had, and sprung a small leak. Which is what led to the survey... They ended up putting lot of patches on the old tub.  :D
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

fishfighter

Quote from: Kbeitz on July 23, 2015, 06:49:20 AM
Boiler Hydrostatic Testing


There is a speical water pump most are hand pumps that pump water into the boiler.
The boiler and process lines must be completely vented in order to fill them with water.  If your running like 75 psi them you would pump like 150psi water into the boiler.
Or 1½ times the design pressure.
the water cant explode.

1. Open the steam drum vent valve and gag the safety valves in accordance with safety valve manufacturer's recommendations. In lieu of gagging, the safety valves may be removed and replaced with test plugs or blind flanges.

2. Open the vents on the interconnecting piping. Close steam outlet valve.

3. Isolate pressure switches, gauge glasses or control components that are not intended to be subjected to a hydrostatic test.

4. Fill the system with treated water in accordance with recommendations from the Clients water treatment consultant. (Refer to section entitled "Water treatment

Considerations". The test water temperature range must be 70°F minimum to 120°F maximum (100°F to 120°F water temperature is preferred). Care should be taken so that all air is vented while the equipment is being filled. Fill the equipment until water overflows the vent, then close the vent.

5. Apply pressure slowly. The recommended rate of pressure increase is less than 50 psi per minute. Proper control must be maintained so that pressure does not

exceed the desired setting of the local steam boiler inspecting agency. Do not subject any pressure part to more than 1½ times the design pressure rating of any

component.

6. When the proper test pressure is reached, inspection in accordance with the test objective can begin. Examine the system for any leaks. If no leaks are visible,

hold the system in a pressurized static condition for a period long enough to satisfy the code requirement.

7. Upon completion of the test, release pressure slowly through a small drain valve. Then fully open vents and drains when the pressure drops to 20 psig. Particular


8. If temporary handhole or manway gaskets were used for the test, they should be replaced with regular service gaskets before readying the unit for operation.

Gaskets should never be reused. Replace gage glass if necessary and make sure that the gage cocks are open. Remove all blanks or gags from safety valves and install relief valves, if removed.

9. Additional inspection at this time by the Authorized inspector will determine whether the installation including piping arrangements, valve gauges and controls

and other equipment on the unit meets Code and/or other jurisdictional requirements.

10. Refer to the "Summary of valve positions" for recommended positioning of the various valves during hydrostatic testing.

You must have a little background in boilers. ;D Used to run a steam generator for Louisiana's first coal fired power plant. 30+ years in that field. The boiler was rated at 4.4 mp per hour. 620 MW's max. What you posted was the way we tested that unit every year.

Someone else posted about high pressure steam and the danger of it. Yes, very high danger. I know from first hand having a chiller blow up on me at 2400 psi. Almost knocked me off the 9th floor of the boiler.

bandmiller2

Steam under pressure is different than air under pressure. Air tanks eventally get thin spots and pin holes, the air will leak out dropping the pressure. With steam if a thin spot starts to leak it lowers the pressure a little and the water flashes to steam in a huge volume and will rend the boiler shell violently. Massive amounts of energy are stored in the water under pressure. Steam boilers can sustain a 300/400 % overload for a short time due to the energy stored that's what makes them good mill power as they can regenerate on the lighter loads like gigback. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

metalshaper

First of all let me say thanks to everyone for all the responses.  I am very close to the Zagray farm and the guy who I got this engine from was very good friends with Willy Zagray.  They still have a show there a few times a year and they run their Lane mill with a diesel engine now.  I will get more photos and information up soon.  For everyone asking this is a Farquhar boiler and engine.  I believe it is a 65 hp unit but will get bore and stroke info soon. 

Brian

47sawdust

Kbeitz,
Thanks for the explanation of boiler testing.
Metalshaper,
That is a beautiful steam engine,good luck with the Lane mill.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Kbeitz

The danger is that one drop of water expands 16.000 times when turning to steam
If you get a low water condition in your boiler and splash the hot metal by adding water or
moving the boiler the water will flash off the hot metal and the game is over.
Have more than one pump and more than one safety water level control.
And I always like two pop off valves.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

bandmiller2

Good advice Kbeitz, I had two pop off valves one big one set to the max and a smaller one set a little lower to warn me. I had a small warren duplex steam pump as a backup to my injector for feed. Its good the boiler has a removable ash pan as one has to climb into the fire box to roll and bead tubes, too tight for me to fit through the door. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Kbeitz

I have a little Giant that I'm replaceing the tubes in right now.
Boiler work is hard and dirty.

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

metalshaper

still taking things slowly and working on the steam engine/boiler when I have time.  The farm and animals take up a lot of the day in addition to my old WW2 and willys jeep restorations.  I have been oiling everything for the past week and today gave a good tug on the flywheel and everything rolled over as it should.  This unit was hydro tested last time it was running and had no problems.  I still have a bunch of stuff to replace but would like to hydro again this summer.  Next week the rest of the sawmill will be getting loaded and I will post more photos then. 

Brian

Kbeitz

I would have the staybolts tested with a hammer.

It was and is used to test for broken stay rods in vessel, especially a boiler or heater.  You have to have access to both end of the stays.  You watch the rebound of one hammer to the impact of the other hammer it takes 2 hammers. 

To hammer test properly you need to use a 10 ounce ball peen hammer.  The area under scrutiny is tapped, not whacked, with the hammer. You are then listening to the sound of metal.  If detriorated the metal will not have a clear sound,where as "good" metal will ring true.  You also apply the technic to riveted joints.  a busted rivet will sound dull when tapped.  Of course you have to develop an ear for it so you should practice on sound and deteriorated metal. Highly subjective but quick. Suspect area should be further investigated as you should not be too quick on judgement.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

metalshaper

Thanks for all the input Kbeitz, I will test the staybolts and rivets with a hammer as you described.  I have riveted everything from aircraft parts to heavy truck frames for years so I am sure my ears will be tuned into the correct sound.  Any and all advice is always appreciated.  Thanks again.

Brian

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