Construction Lumber

[stumpy]

I am building a cabin in Wisconsin out of white and red Pine. My plan is to saw the lumber and air dry it to about 15% to 20% MC. I would use the air dried lumber for the exterior siding and framing.
For the interior wood, I plan to dry it in a solar kiln after air drying to get it down to about 8% to 10%.

Is this a proper approach?
Any and all input would be greatly appreciated!

[DanG]

Sounds like a plan to me.  If you gotta follow building codes, though, you really should read the fine print in the code. Down here, I can't cut my own siding or framing without an accepted stamp on the lumber. The Fla. code is specific in stating that the stamp must be from a facility that is inspected and regulated by an accredited grading association.

[Jeff]

We built our cabin in the U.P. pretty much right off the saw. THere may have been times when the would was sawn for 3 or 4 weeks but nothing dry. All red and white pine and a few sticks of hemlock. Interior and exterior. Still standing after 10 years.

Code?
Our cabin is a storage building. We just happen to store insulation in the walls and attic and some furniture and beds and appliances (fridge micro tv etc) and a sink and tub and clothes and some sporting goods and maybe a little food and beverages in it. Works pretty well for storing hunters and folks in need of a retreat too.  We also store a big concrete box buried in the back yard. Wish we could figure out why the toilet were storing keeps leaking into it.  ;D

[rvrdivr]

Jeff, I'm with you on that code issue, but here in St. Johns County Fl. we have the code nazi's riding around checking on everyone. It's funny to see the houses that were built 150 years ago along the bayfront are still standing strong. I don't think they had building codes then, they just knew how to build them right.

[Gilman]

Or, RiverDiver, the remaining houses are the only ones built to "code" and have survived?  :

The bonehead that remodeled my house developed his own codes, and he followed them.
1) I don't need a stud finder, I just look for a cracked drywall seam.

2) Don't need any GFI's because he snipped all those silly copper wires off and didn't connect them to the recepticle.  Must have been a waste of time.

3) No starter strip on the roofing.

4) I'd better quit before I get irritated  ;D

Codes are a pain, but boneheads are a bigger pain!

[Buzz-sawyer]

Plenty of boneheads, build under codes
, do boneheaded things ,
 that are cheched off the punch list by boneheaded inspectors :D :D

[VA-Sawyer]

DanG,
Maybe you need to talk Arky into coming down and inspecting you operation before he hands you a SSMU stamp. If he will just threaten to take it back if you screw up, then you could say you had been inspected and was regulated.  ;)
I can't see how the inspections and regulations makes any real difference anyways....just go look at any lumberyard !
VA-Sawyer

[Tobacco Plug]

Stumpy,
Check with your local building inspector.  Here in NC we can build with uninspected lumber if:
A.  The wood belongs to the owner of the house being built.
B.  The lumber is air dried to at least 19% MC.
C.  The owner of the house (or a member of his family) must live in that house for at least a year.

One of the County inspectors where I live gave me a copy of the statement that the Insurance Department issued concerning non-grade marked lumber.  It probably helped that he had once owned a Wood Mizer himself, though. ;)

[Left_Coast_Rich]

Talking about the code thing, anyone out there know how the socialist republic of Ca. looks at the stamp issue.  Kind of afraid of calling the local county building inspector and alerting them to the fact that I have a mill.  Lots of fencing boards are being cut around here. LC Rich

[Gilman]

Rich, could you elaborate?

[DanG]

The Florida Building Code is available online. I'm sure that most, if not all other states are the same. I found ours on a brochure on the wall rack in the county building inspector's office.

Y'all try to remember that we are the exception, rather than the rule. The codes are written to protect the ignorant prey from the unscrupulous predator. The inspectors I talked to know full well that I can produce what I need to build a quality house, but they would be risking their jobs to approve something that is out of bounds. I understand that and tend to respect their position. I hope that I can maintain that attitude through the process of building a house, and make them feel that we are doing this as a team.

Also, I am not an expert builder, and that's putting it mildly. I'm finding the new Florida code to be an excellent tutorial of building techniques. It mentions things that I would never have thought of, but make perfect sense as soon as I read them.

Another point I have considered is resale. I intend to live in the house I am about to start, for the remainder of my life. Unfortunately, that may not be very long. I may be forced to sell out for health reasons, or the neighborhood could become unsatisfactory. I might die.  It is obvious that this house will be sold someday, and I'd rather it would stand up to FHA and VA inspections when that time comes.  If a future inspector finds faults that should have been refused at the time of building, it could seriously devalue the house, even if these faults are of the administrative variety.

One final point is, that I can sell my own lumber for someone to build a barn, for pretty close to the same $ that I can buy framing lumber from Tatum's Building Supply. I am free to pick through the stack and get stuff that will meet my standards as well as passing inspection.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Gillman and all
I have Always built to B.O.C.A .AND BEYOND,
 when I went to college and studied materials and methods, I learned standard building procedures, :P
 my Grandpa taught me to go the EXTRA MILE before I new what standard practices even were
the point of my earlier post is that codes have NOtHING to do with doing things correctly and according to acceptable building practices...............in and of themselves.
It has a whole lot more to do with the builder, and the inspectors.
Poor work comes out under code EVERY day and excellent work comes out with no code, every day. ;)

STUMPY
One word DRY make shure no water can splash or wick up to any part....youll be ahead of the game

[Norwiscutter]

Stumpy, as I am in the same county and have unfortunately had to deal with the codes in this area during some construction projects, give me a call.  But unless you use some creative zoning interpretations like Jeff did, you might as well just drive down to Menards and buy your framing materials.  Your roof structure and wall frameing members need to be stamped by a grader, as well as approved for structual integrety by an engineer.  If you are in conover, you can still get by without all the nonesense, but come jan 1, the whole state is blessed with the divine supervision of the UBC. :-[

[stumpy]

Thanks James,
Can I get your number?

jvogt@wi.rr.com

[Left_Coast_Rich]

Gilman,  The idea of fencing is one that I picked up some time ago.  Since ungraded lumber can not be covered up without inspection because of possible failure due to poor quality (right)  All the lumber I put on the market is for fencing.
Fencing is easily inspected by everyone, and if the dimensional lumber ends up structural then by my disclosure of purpose I have placed a layer of nonresponsibility between myself and the end user.  Verbal agreements are only as good as the paper they are written on, so have buyer sign the disclosure and file away.  It has not been tested in court, but any thing that says I have disclosed adds a great deal of weight.  If the buyer knows what they are buying and why they are buying it is hard to fight.  
DanG
I know of no inspection required by VA FHA or conventional appraisors that require the inspector to prove quality of construction under sheetrock. Health and Safety Yes minimum building standards yes but stud grading No. However living in the Socialist Republic of CA. may have brainwashed my thinking.
 Whenever planning for the future as far as real estate is concerned, always think in 3's  they are looking, owning and selling.  When you are looking to purchase property you should be thinking of selling that parcel from the getgo.  That way when you sell you will not find yourself in the soup as far as value, improvements and disclosures.  Like it or not when real estate is sold in the near future, the seller must disclose what is wrong with the property, not what is right with the property.  IF there are no problems with the framing then that is not disclosed just the problem areas.  We have a transfer disclosure statement that asks if the home has been built to code.  That would be a tough one if the lumber is ungraded but surpasses the dimensional and strength test.  Your call but I would think it would be OK to disclose the source of the lumber and quality.  Pictures help lots.  Just a thought.  LC Rich.

[VA-Sawyer]

Sooooo ..... I can go to Lowes,and pick out all the worst cr*p wood and as long as it is stamped, build a house and the inspecter has to accept it ? I've seen boards with stamps that I wouldn't use to build a doghouse. Like the man said...Quality comes from the Builder and Inspector, not from the codes or stamps !
VA-Sawyer

[DonE911]

In FL you can if its got a stamp on it.  

 Although If your building a doghouse you'd better use the good stuff..... a mother-in-law suite .... thats could be a place for the Lowes Junk.

Maybe DanG knows, I've been out of home construction for a while, does an inspector actually look for a stamp? I have been away from home construction for 15 years and I was fairly young, but I never saw an inspector look for a stamp.... did see one make a crew replace studs due to bad knot's... but it was the stamped from Lowes delivery truck stuff.

I'm not saying you should buck the system, just curious if anyone in FL has actually seen an inspector looking for the stamp.

[Buzz-sawyer]

VA
Basically, yes.  ;)
And many times it will be inspected and passed, even if improperly framed.
Ideally, the qualification would be sound, material to bear the load, and proper framing to support the job.....
As, someone on this forum ALWAYS says, "Government exists to tell us what we CANT do"
If it was logical , and worked with us then it wouldnt be beurocray......
But,
Its nice when a realistic and knowlegable system works...... :D :D :D :D

[beenthere]

VA-Sawyer
You imply that the stamps are in error, but I would contend that the stamps are accurate for the material (accuracy of graders and grader systems is pretty good). But the grade stamp does allow a lot of wane, streaks, large knots, etc. that 'look bad' but still meets the 'grade'.  Just wanted to clarify that. Purchasing higher quality material is sometimes hard when dealing with studs. Some pretty low quality is all that is necessary for just holding two layers of drywall apart at 3 1/2 ".  Higher quality wood usually ends up in a more expensive product.
Now, I am not arguing that the 'crap' at box stores doesn't look bad. But it usually is sufficient for the job if it will stay straight. I often buy twice what I need, then take back what I don't use (after sorting of course). The next guy gets what I take back, probably. Or it gets pushed off the pile and thrown out.
I know of a building tract where the builder had most all the 16' joists in the houses (a tract of them) were cut off at 14' 6". Unfortunately for him, he cut off the end with the grade stamp. Very expensive, as the grading agency would not grade those pieces without seeing all four 'sides'.  Not sure what was finally done, but it was a big mistake.
Probably the 'home-sawn' studs would 'look' different and draw the attention of the the inspector, and he would then have to address the situation of no grade stamp (or contact Arky to borrow his).

[Buzz-sawyer]

Well, one of the problems with low grade studs and thier structural defects is that they are suppossed to BEAR the weight of the entire first and second story of a house.....
They are suppossed to BE structure of  conventional platform framing. Excess nots, splits and etc. do make all the difference in load  capacity.... And the weight of drywall. ;D

[DonE911]

I'll be the first to admit I don't yet understand the grading of construction lumber...  I may have implied that the stuff at lowes looks bad, therefore must be bad...  didn't mean it wouldn't do the job it was graded to do.

Sometimes the simple thing is the most difficult....  its simple to tell by looking that the 2x4 you just cut is superior to that knotty twisted thing the delivery truck brought (hypothethical so lets assume it is better), but if the inspector notices there is no stamp, your superior 2x4 must be replaced with the box store model.

that  sux , but thats life.....

[rvrdivr]

I have a real bad addittued when it comes to inspectors and codes. I understand they are here to protect the innocent from the "cut-corner contractor" and I'm all for that. I own a security company in NE Florida and I have had to deal with some idiot inspectors not to mention engineers. I don't know how many times I have been handed a set of plans to a commercial fire alarm system, that some engineer got paid a lot of money to draw up, and it's wrong! It would never be to code. Not to mention it wouldn't work. Then Mr. "I'm important" inspector comes out , having no clue to anything, procedes to pretend he know everything about his job and wants to be treated as if he were God. Besides, he has the power to fail you. This happens on almost every job and has for years. Every once in a while I'm meet an inspector who knows his job and is a pleasure to deal with.

I too am going to build a house soon and I know I'll have to deal with some BS. But I also know it's for myself and I know I'm not going to cut corners and cheat myself. I'll follow the proper procedure and pull a permit and have inspections, but I know I going to but heads about some issues when it come to their rules. Bottom line...It's my house, It's my land, I'll do as I please.

[Quartlow]

I'm glad you guys have to deal with them and not me. We have a lop hole here, you only need inspection if you get a building permit, and if you own more than 10 acres you don't need a building permit. go figure, So everything here is an outbuilding  :D :D At least if you own more than 10 acres it is :D

I don't understand the whole stamped graded thing, Most of it I wouldn't build a birdhouse with.

My nephew just finished his Horse barn, all built out of green hemlock. Now where he lives they need permits. They came out  just as they finised up and put up a stop work order.. Seems a neighbor turned them in. But that was ok with him. all he had to do was stop work and get a permit. Of course since its done he's just going to leave the stop work order hang there.  :D

[RacinRex]

I've been following this and since I finally posted elsewhere in the forum I thought I'd add my .02 I have just finished framing, roofing, windows, doors, rough electric and rough plumbing in my very first house. Everything is by the book. I built my own trusses but the plans used were stamped and the construction was 10 times what any truss manufacturer would have done. all gussets are 1/2" CDX with nails staggered 2" on center on both sides of the truss plus liquid nails HD construction grade adhesive on them. The code officer put a stop work order on us because he didn't like the trusses. I had to go above him to his supperiors to get going again slowed us up over a month though... Now I call asking for clarification on codes and whatnot and I get no return phone calls, no response whatsoever... even written requests have gone un-answered. I am continuing to build now and have lots of documentation to back up my story.


G-R-R-R-R-R

USSA (United Socialist States of America)

[Buzz-sawyer]

RacinRex
Dont you know they are protecting you, and helping you ??? ;)

[RacinRex]

Ooops I'm sorry code guy, wish someone had been here to protect you. I did post the "Hardhat Area" sign..... I think  ;)

[etat]

 :D :D :D

[Buzz-sawyer]

racinrex
Sounds like you put the fear of God into the code department?? Maybe the peone who shut you down dont want to get reamed for his incompetance again ...soooooooo hes leavin ya be.... :D