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Pivoting a log

Started by WV Sawmiller, July 12, 2015, 07:31:32 PM

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WV Sawmiller

   I am sure all old hands are familiar with this technique but may be a few new guys out there who are also short on support equipment and occasionally need to adjust a log on the ground to center it before putting it on the mill. Technique I learned as a teenager working summers in a paper mill handling big heavy rolls of paper was to roll it up on a pivot point. I keep 2-3 logs about 3"-4" in diameter X 3' long. I wedge the short log under/against the center point of the log and roll the log up on it with my logrite cant hook. With the log balanced on this small point I can push down on the light end and spin it till it is pointed the way I want it to go. A single guy can easily spin a 20"X16' log using this technique.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Sixacresand

Yes.  Done it lots of times.  Good Idea on keeping small logs precut and ready to use. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Dan_Shade

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Chuck White

I use short (12-16") pieces of 2x6 lumber to pivot the logs.

I usually have a few in the truck to use for blocking when setting the mill up, and for turning logs!

I also learned this from my time working in the Newton Falls, NY paper mill back in '72-'73.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Magicman

I carry a tapered 4X4 with me.   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WV Sawmiller

Dan,

   If you are talking about just using your cant hook to swing one end at a time I assure you it is much easier to roll the log up on some sort of pivot, such as the tapered 4X4 MM mentions a fence post sized log or something similar then you can swing the log 360 degrees if you wanted to as much less wood in contact with the ground for resistance.

Chuck,

   We called them cutting irons at St. Regis an eternity ago. Were flat plates about 10" square and angled on all 4 sides. Once you rolled a 2-3 ton roll of paper on it you could turn it any direction you wanted it to go. I only had to move a 4-1/2' X 22" log today that weighed a few hundred lbs but reminded me of the paper rolls. Same principle and faster and more accurate than use 4 wheeler to drag it around into place.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Peter Drouin

I think we all do that , But I like my log roller.


  

  

 
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

WV Sawmiller

Peter,

   I like your log roller but what if your find your log is going to miss the arm by 2-3 feet? You are probably better off with support equipment than some of us but even then it may be faster to just pivot the log and roll on the lifting arms than to go crank up your tractor.

   Anyway, this is just a suggestion for new sawyers who haven't picked up an easy way to turn their logs before getting them on the mill. Remember - free advice is always worth just what you paid for it.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

jrose1970

I like this free advice pretty good. I bet you could scoot them about 1 or 2 feet on those fence post size logs pretty easy too. Thanks!
HFE-36; International 424-37HP; McCullogh Pro 10-10

SawyerBrown

Quote from: Magicman on July 12, 2015, 09:47:52 PM
I carry a tapered 4X4 with me.   :D
WV, good post to start with, and MM good idea!  I always end up hunting for the right sized scrap, and usually can't find it -- it's either too small and doesn't get the log up high enough, or is too big and the log won't "climb" onto it.  Tapered 4x4 should usually do the trick! 

Of course, then you've got to remember to pick it up at the end of the day ...  ::)
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

Magicman

Yes, I recently left my favorite one somewhere??   Actually what I have now is three 2X4's nailed together.  Still tapered and still works.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Magicman

Wrong.  I had forgotten that I left that one somewhere too.  The latest one is five 1X4's screwed together.  Wonder where I will leave it??   ???
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SawyerBrown

They seem to be getting thinner as you go ...   Next up:  8 layers of 1/2" plywood?   :D
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

WV Sawmiller

Sawyer,

    We all try to leave our customer with a little something extra, usually a little extra lumber or a cash discount or something for a good customer. It looks like MM leaves each one a pivot. I hope they appreciate the craftsmanship involved. To each his own.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

SawyerBrown

 :D :D :D. Even better than mints or toothpicks!
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

Magicman

There is no way of knowing how many leveling boards that I have left covered with sawdust at sawing sites.  I occasionally find one on repeat jobs.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

LUV2MILL

This is new to me and I'm having trouble visualizing the process. If you roll onto a smaller log that is perpendicular to the large log I can see where it will rotate easy enough but after it turns 90 degree I would think it would roll off the smaller log when they are parallel.
So do you have to roll it onto the smaller log multiple times to rotate the large log 180 degree?

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I like your log roller on the loading arms Peter.....but can you not put the log on there centered with the forks?  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

beenthere

Yes LUV2Mill

You do the 180 in a couple steps, but in between those steps you can roll the log off in various directions using the pivot point technique described.
Beats trying to slide a heavy log just to re-position it.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Peter Drouin

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 13, 2015, 04:23:59 PM
I like your log roller on the loading arms Peter.....but can you not put the log on there centered with the forks?  :)


It's a thing I made up when I was on the road will the mill. Don't use it no more. ;D I have john.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Peter Drouin on July 13, 2015, 05:09:19 PM
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on July 13, 2015, 04:23:59 PM
I like your log roller on the loading arms Peter.....but can you not put the log on there centered with the forks?  :)


It's a thing I made up when I was on the road will the mill. Don't use it no more. ;D I have john.

That answered my question.  :) John's a good boy.  ;D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

justallan1

Quote from: LUV2MILL on July 13, 2015, 03:53:57 PM
This is new to me and I'm having trouble visualizing the process. If you roll onto a smaller log that is perpendicular to the large log I can see where it will rotate easy enough but after it turns 90 degree I would think it would roll off the smaller log when they are parallel.
So do you have to roll it onto the smaller log multiple times to rotate the large log 180 degree?
What I do is pivot whichever end of the log is long away from the mill, roll the log away from the mill until I think it will line up, pivot the log back to straight with the tracks and roll it on up the ramps by parbuckling it and get any final "scootching" one way or the other while it's on the ramps.
When the mill is on the ground I just keep my beams that I use for a log deck closer together and do all the pivoting and rolling right there, using my cant hook as a pry bar.
Other Usefull Info:
SCOOTCH- a verb, something showing action.........Derived in the south :D
Example- Scootch yer butt over and share that couch! ;D

Delawhere Jack

Master: "Grasshopper, to pivot log, you must find center of gravity, not just middle of log."
Grasshopper: "Master, I have turned many logs now, and I have not torn up the lawn."
Master: "Grasshopper, you have learned well. For next lesson, wax my truck..... Wax on - wax off..."

smiley_chinese

It's funny how some clients see this trick and are just amazed, and others start to do it themselves before I get a chance to suggest it.

4x4American

Most times what I do is just get a helicopter to come in and move it how it has to.  smiley_smug01
Boy, back in my day..

Nomad

Quote from: Magicman on July 13, 2015, 08:39:39 AM
Yes, I recently left my favorite one somewhere??   Actually what I have now is three 2X4's nailed together.  Still tapered and still works.

     I use them almost every job.  Lynn, next one you lose could be into the back of my truck at the Pig Roast.  I seem to lose one about every other week.

     BTW, if you're rotating the log more than 90 degrees you're doing something wrong! :D
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

WV Sawmiller

Nomad,

    You must be a lot smarter than these guys said you were!

    We went through 17 posts after I mentioned rotating a log 360 degrees without anyone mentioning that it would make no sense to rotate one over 180 (I bet most of the time we rarely pivot 45degrees) degrees or we'd be headed back where we came from. Good catch.

    Most old hands already knew this technique and take it for granted. Its the new guys without support equipment who will find this most valuable.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

4x4American

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 13, 2015, 07:51:10 PM
Nomad,

    You must be a lot smarter than these guys said you were!

    We went through 17 posts after I mentioned rotating a log 360 degrees without anyone mentioning that it would make no sense to rotate one over 180 (I bet most of the time we rarely pivot 45degrees) degrees or we'd be headed back where we came from. Good catch.

    Most old hands already knew this technique and take it for granted. Its the new guys without support equipment who will find this most valuable.


Go back and read post number 16  ;D
Boy, back in my day..

WV Sawmiller

4X,

   I did. Luv was just asking how to continue rotating after 180 degrees. Nomad picked up on the fact no reason to ever do so.

    Reminds me of the carpenter reaching into his nail pouch and pulling out a nail. About every other nail he'd throw it in the bushes. His buddy came over and asked what he was doing throwing those nails away. First carpenter said they were pointed in the wrong direction. Carpenter number 2 said "You dummy - those are the nails we need to use on the other side of the wall."
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

dgdrls

Quote from: Chuck White on July 12, 2015, 09:44:22 PM
I use short (12-16") pieces of 2x6 lumber to pivot the logs.

I usually have a few in the truck to use for blocking when setting the mill up, and for turning logs!

I also learned this from my time working in the Newton Falls, NY paper mill back in '72-'73.

Chuck you never mentioned you worked at Newton Falls,  pretty sad sight now,  the plant was stripped and the timber lands
sold-off.  Seems only the Hydros and a few folks in town are left.

Best
DGDrls

SawyerBrown

Quote from: LUV2MILL on July 13, 2015, 03:53:57 PM
This is new to me and I'm having trouble visualizing the process. If you roll onto a smaller log that is perpendicular to the large log I can see where it will rotate easy enough but after it turns 90 degree I would think it would roll off the smaller log when they are parallel.
So do you have to roll it onto the smaller log multiple times to rotate the large log 180 degree?

Well, the other thing I've learned is not to set your pivot board perpendicular to the log, but up to 45 degrees, slightly off-center. Since it's usually hard to eye-ball exactly where the center of gravity is, you'll eventually find it as you continue to roll the log up on your pivot. That also gives you more swing before the log rolls off.

Agree that most people are amazed when they see how easy it is to turn the heaviest of logs!  WV, thanks again for the post!
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

Kbeitz

You could modify a can hook like the cheap ones they use to hold a log up while cutting fire wood.
The ones with the little stand under it to hold the log up.
But don't make it so high and put a swivel on the bottom of it so when you lift it you could swing it.
Rotating cant hook... New invention... longer handle for more leverage.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

terrifictimbersllc

add a couple more to the good advice already.....

one guy jams a peavey vertically to block one end while the other guy turns the other end against it

look for a belly on a log roll up on that and it may pivot, also look for this belly when using a pivot block, it may pivot before even going up on the block

let the customer move the log lengthwise on the mill, after that the ones he rolls up will be centered :)


DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

LUV2MILL

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on July 14, 2015, 06:55:29 AM
add a couple more to the good advice already.....

one guy jams a peavey vertically to block one end while the other guy turns the other end against it

look for a belly on a log roll up on that and it may pivot, also look for this belly when using a pivot block, it may pivot before even going up on the block

let the customer move the log lengthwise on the mill, after that the ones he rolls up will be centered :)

I have a one man version of this. I keep a couple of nice round sections about 18" long and 6 - 8" in diameter around to use. I lay the short piece in front of the log I need to turn, on the end that is the inside corner of the turn, and roll the log with my cant hook when the log tries to climb the short piece it acts like a bearing and the log pivots around it. The closer to the center the tighter the turn the harder it is to roll.

WV Sawmiller

Kbeitz,

   I like the rotating cant hook idea but not sure you could make one long enough to do a very big log. I think you should go ahead and finish the design and market it and if it makes any money send it to me.

TT,
 
    I usually end up working alone so the 2 man option does not do me much good. Luv's idea works a little better for us loners.

SawyerB,

     You are right. It is amazing how big a log a guy can pivot all by himself when he uses this technique correctly. It will never be perfectly balanced because of taper, knots, etc. but it is easy to get close enough a lone man can push down with 25-50 lbs of pressure to lift the heavy end. If not, reposition your pivot till you can.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

SawyerBrown

I rarely have to reposition the pivot with putting it on a 45-deg(ish) angle as described.  If it's too heavy on one end, just roll the log one way or the other to get it to balance!
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

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