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Improved (??) dogs on HM126 - not so much - anybody else get these?

Started by btulloh, July 12, 2015, 03:06:11 PM

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btulloh

Apparently the HM126 comes with a new IMPROVED dog system different from the one pictured in the manual or in the promo video.  Cam action instead of screw action.  It seems ok for some things - cants maybe, but not enough to take a good bite on a round log. 

I think I'll contact them and see if they still have any of the old dogs.  Maybe you just can't teach a new dog old tricks.  Since the cam part is removable I may have to make a new top with a coupling nut and replace the cam mechanism.

Overall I'm still happy with the mill considering its cost.  I expected to make some upgrades and add some conveniences, but I think the old dogs would be better. 

I should have shortened the end of the bolt that holds the cam lever 'cause I new it stuck up higher than anything on the dog.  But I didn't.  Figured it could wait 'til later.  So after measuring clearance three or four times, I still grazed the end of the bolt and knocked the set off the bottom of the blade.  Recoverable at least.  Looks like I sawed my first metal, but at least the blade will live again. 

If it hadn't been for friend standing on the left side, I would have sawed right into a log support that I thought I'd already lowered.  Dodged a bullet on that one.  Just got ahead of myself but I got bailed out.

Has anybody had experience with these new dogs from Woodland Mills?  They seem like a bit of three handed operation even when you get them close enough to bite before the cam runs out, but maybe I just haven't picked up the knack yet.


 
HM126

Magicman

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fishfighter

I have those on my mill. I think they suck the big one. I will build new ones like the old ones. One has to pull the cross pipe all the way over, then engage those clamps. Gets kind of hard if one has a roller log on the bed. Had to cut some wedges for that to have a third hand. I had busted a couple knuckles already on those "new dogs" too!

GAB

Quote from: btulloh on July 12, 2015, 03:06:11 PM

I should have shortened the end of the bolt that holds the cam lever 'cause I new it stuck up higher than anything on the dog.  But I didn't.  Figured it could wait 'til later.  So after measuring clearance three or four times, I still grazed the end of the bolt and knocked the set off the bottom of the blade.  Recoverable at least.  Looks like I sawed my first metal, but at least the blade will live again. 



 

Is there anything keeping you from putting the bolt head on the opposite side and being done with it?
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

btulloh

My brain seemed to get in the way of me figuring that out.  Sometimes I miss the obvious.  Thanks for pointing that out.

I reversed them earlier when I was working on a screw type mod, so I did actually started thinking before I started cutting.  I guess I always want to use the grinder first and the wrench later, but I got 'em turned around now. 

I'm almost finished with a quick and dirty screw-type head for the dog that works like the old one.  I think the new ones may have some advantages, but also some disadvantages.  I'll give the WH people credit for working on improvements though.  The new dogs are more expensive and complicated than the old ones and somebody must think they're better, but I'm still trying to find the magic.  It gives me a chance to make something though.

I also ground off the bottom corners of the bar so it would go through the clamp easier.  It was hard to wiggle it through the bottom lip. 
HM126

tmarch

I actually like that clamp better than the screw ones, but I give the a whack with a hammer and they stick in soft wood.  Don't need to clamp with a lot of pressure on most mills.
Retired to the ranch, saw, and sell solar pumps.

btulloh

I'm sure some of it is the learning curve.  They work good on cants, but I'm fighting with logs like fishfighter was saying.  I've almost finished making a screw version so I'll have both kinds shortly.  Grinding the corners off helped.  I may grind the roll pins flush since they're always catching on the bracket. 

I do give them credit for putting in the effort to make changes.  The dogs are thoughtfully designed and well-made.  They only have about a half inch range on the cam and 50% of that can get lost with the play in the rest of the assembly. 

Every piece of machinery I ever got took some fiddling to get right.  I'm impressed with this mill and I'd still be sitting around ten years from now thinking about trying out a mill if I hadn't found out about these. 
HM126

justallan1

Here's what I made on my new mill for holding small pieces and burls. It would work the same on logs and I would recommend making a longer "T" handle. The whole reason that I built it like this is that I feel with both the cam style clamp and the screw clamp you are losing a bunch of space on your bunks to accommodate them. Another thing I did was put it on a slider for crossways movement and it has the vertical adjustment also. The reason for this is both of the mills that I've had were cam style clamps that are on a pivot and when trying to use them close to the tracks they were both basically a pain in the butt and in the way a lot.
I made this one in probably a half hour and although I could have done a prettier job on it, it does exactly what I need it to and uses 1/3 the room.
Just an idea for you all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1cCRbkSVqE

btulloh

Now that's the ticket.  You're right about the interference with track.  I was only working with a 14" log and was on the verge of having clearance issues. 

I can't see how you're sliders work in the video.  You wouldn't have any pictures would you?  I think you have it figured out right.  And they're pretty enough.  After all, it's not a beauty contest.  Pretty good and pretty fast, beats pretty in my book.  Thanks for the ideas.
HM126

justallan1

It works on a cross slide the same as most of the factory jobs and the vertical is the same, but with a "T" handle to lock it in place.
I also made stops and put them about 10" apart with the clamp right in the center of them so that they clamp in 3 spots independent of each other. My plan is to make one more stop and place it 4' from the first and one more clamp and place it 3' from the first so that my clamps are between my stops, but not in line with them.
The clamp and both stops that I made sit below the top of the bunks and out of the way for the use of the manufacturers clamping system or can be removed and put where you want to accommodate whatever length log that you want. You would have to add a 1" square for your stops to sit and a cross slide bar for your clamp. I put mine close together because I saw more burls than anything else right now.
I'll have to get some more pics, I must have erased them, OOPS! 8)

justallan1

Here's one pic that I found that shows how low it can sit. Sorry about the crappy pic.
I should have first mentioned with using the clamps and stops how I have made them your tracks CAN NOT sit right on the ground because the vertical adjustment part of it will bottom out on the ground. Although I think they would work as good as any on the factory clamp arm


 

gww

I must have been bullied as a kid.  I have the most unprofessional doggs of anyone.  I do get to hit them with a hammer though. I like hitting things.  They are not the strongest and to be honest, I have never got to use anything else to compare them with.  As long as I remember where the hammer was layed last, my dogs are really quick to use.  I wish someone who had a more professional set up could try them and tell me what they thought.



 

I just slide them to the log and bang once or twice with the hammer and to losen, bang once or twice with the hammer.

It seems so simple.  I would like to try a real mill some day.
gww

justallan1

Here's the stops. I welded a couple of the 1" receiver pieces going towards the center of the track so I can change the placement of them to saw round or funny shaped burls and not have them interfering with the tracks.


 

gww

Justallen
It looks like your dog is interested in what you are doing.  Mine will watch me for hours.
gww

justallan1

GWW, I strongly feel that if it's safe and it works at a speed that you can live with, then it's the right one.
Another reason I did mine how I did is with the 2 stops and the clamp being in no way connected to each other and all three getting locked in place, I can suspend a burl in any fashion that I wish to get a certain cut that I want if I have to.
Yup, that's "Buddy" and all he lives for is following me around with a tennis ball.

justallan1

Here you go, I hope this better explains things for you. As you can see the only thing that you need to weld to your tracks would be the cross slide and if you wanted different stops you'd have to weld on the 1"reciever pieces, OR you can somehow fix just the clamp to the existing clamp arm that comes with your mill and you're good to go.


 


 

gww

Justallen
I really like your doggs.  The one on the mill :laugh:.  I probly like the other one also.
Cheers
gww

goose63

I have both the cam and screw clamp's and I like the cam clamps better first thing I did was turn the bolt around
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

Kbeitz

I redid my dogs s few times and I'm still not happy with them. Not fast enough.
They work real good but I'm going to change it over to hydraulics when I get time.
The first picture is the back ones and they are mounted on the same bar as the front ones.
All I need to do is grab the top end and swing it up to the hight I need. It has spring loaded detentes
built into the collar to hold it in place when I let it go.



 

This next picture is the front dog. It part of the same bar in the back.
But the front 2/3rds of the bar is rack and pinion square stock with the teeth on top.
The square tube that slides down the square that holds the log dog had a lip that slides
down into the teeth for a no slip back no matter how hard I tighten it down.
You can see in the picture that it has a built in tape measure right in the front of the bar.



 

Works great but it's just not fast enough.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

justallan1

I'll be the first to admit that the ones that I built aren't as fast as the manufacturers cam style clamps.
For me it was giving up a few seconds in exchange for clamping something a certain way and using more of the width of the tracks.
I think for logs the clamping system that came on my EZ Boardwalk Jr work flawlessly and the only reason that I even built mine was for the specific purpose of holding short pieces and burls.

btulloh

Thanks for the pics.  They are excellent.  I will be cutting some burls and crotches down the road, so you've given me some good ideas.

Working with my current dogs a bit more, I found that they were not retracting the nose all the way, which limited the range quite a bit.  They just need some wearing-in and maybe a little lube.  Using the full range makes a big difference. 

I think I'll add a T-bolt on the dog bracket to lock the dog height.  That and maybe plug weld one end of the cross tube to the bracket to keep it from tilting and limit the end play.  The dogs do work good, but there's too many moving parts for two hands.  (I think the arthritis in my thumbs amplifies the problem.  Maybe I would have found it easier a few years ago.)

Anyway - thanks again.  I love to see what everybody's figured out on these manual mills to make life easier.  Fiddling with stuff is half the fun.  Of course sooner or later I need to get some work done and stop fiddling.
HM126

justallan1

Good to hear that you got yours figured out. It's definitely nicer to use factory made stuff most of the time, but mine were for a specific purpose.

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