Widths of the wood-can this even happen?

[Brucer]

As a customer, I have certain expectations of whatever it is I buy. When it's an everyday item, my expectations are usually based on generally available knowledge and are therefore reasonable. When the item is unusual, I try do some research in advance so I know what to expect. But not everybody does that, so ...

As a supplier, I try to find out what the customer is planning to do with my product. I try to figure out what his/her expectations of the product are (asking works well :D). Then I tell the customer what to reasonably expect. In other words, I try to answer all the questions the customer should have asked, but didn't.

As a customer, there is nothing I hate more than being told that what I was given is "good enough", when it isn't. Only I can determine what "good enough" is (for me).

As a customer, I'm always impressed when the supplier takes my complaint seriously and tries to make it right. One way to show you take it seriously is to visit them with a (tape or calipers) and measure the wood and look at what they are doing. This is not just to satisfy a customer; it's also for your own education. What can you do to make your product more consistent? Was their a problem with your mill that you didn't know about? Is there something you should be point out about your product to other customers.

"All over the place" can be a good description if the customer is planning to assemble the wood into a panel and expects it all to be flush. Sometimes there are just a few pieces that are "all over the place" -- these are the outliers in a normal distribution. Set those aside and all of a sudden the rest seems to be pretty consistent.

As a supplier, when I'm selling standard lumber out of inventory, I always give the customer 10% extra, "because we don't grade it". That "extra" is already factored into my price. I could just as easily sell the requested amount of lumber for a lower price, but that doesn't feel the same. With my method, the customer doesn't run out of wood in the middle of the project and then have to interrupt work to come buy another piece or two.

I will usually buy back something the customer isn't happy with. I've taken a loss from time to time and friends have said I'm crazy. But I don't believe you can make a profit on any one item. Profit is calculated at the end of the year (or end of the quarter), when all your expenses and purchases have been tallied and all your receipts deposited. That "loss" I took on one item is invisible. So is all the extra income I earned because the customer was so impressed that he/she told all his/her friends about my great service.

[Magicman]

Thank you Bruce.   

[DMcCoy]

Brucer, that is good advice and a great way to conduct business.

It might be hard when starting out to take a hit.  What you will gain is likely worth a trip to go see what they really mean by 'all over the place'.  This will put a measurement to it.

[Cedarman]

When these things arise, I ask the customer to take 3 or 4 photos and e-mail them.  You could have your customer take 4 boards in question, put a tape measure across them to show the exact width.  Then you can make a decision as to whether there is a need to visit the customer.
When selling by the board foot, we always put some extra in.
When selling by the board we usually put some extra in except when they are extraordinary pieces.  I try to keep track of how many extra boards I send.  I have had customers want to bring back a handful of boards and exchange them for better ones.  I only do this when they don't meet specs and are more than what I gave for free.
Taking pictures is a great way to solve problems at a distance.  If you need to replace, then it is obvious.  If not then it is easy to explain why.

[woodyone.john]

Bang on the nail Brucer,If they are local pay them a visit,check out the complaint.You may have to swap a few boards or you may not.Happy customers are worth a few more dollars than the deal been done.But as been observed before some people are hard to please. cheers john

[YellowHammer]

It's generally nothing personal, and I feel, in my business, getting to the bottom of the complaint is important to growing my business, or at least setting my business apart from others. That being said, I also have a laminated NHLA hardwood grading poster hanging on the wall, so people understand that when they are buying common grade, it's supposed to have knots. ;D  So setting expectations and even educating the customer is important.

I would ask them to bring back the boards, or send photos, as people have already suggested, of the ones they weren't happy with, (I would not go to their house because if its not worth them coming back then it's not my time, either) and I would inspect them and see if their complaint was legitimate or not.  Then I would do my best to make it right, even to the point of refunding the money.
YH

[Percy]

As a customer, I have certain expectations of whatever it is I buy. When it's an everyday item, my expectations are usually based on generally available knowledge and are therefore reasonable. When the item is unusual, I try do some research in advance so I know what to expect. But not everybody does that, so ...

As a supplier, I try to find out what the customer is planning to do with my product. I try to figure out what his/her expectations of the product are (asking works well :D). Then I tell the customer what to reasonably expect. In other words, I try to answer all the questions the customer should have asked, but didn't.

As a customer, there is nothing I hate more than being told that what I was given is "good enough", when it isn't. Only I can determine what "good enough" is (for me).

As a customer, I'm always impressed when the supplier takes my complaint seriously and tries to make it right. One way to show you take it seriously is to visit them with a (tape or calipers) and measure the wood and look at what they are doing. This is not just to satisfy a customer; it's also for your own education. What can you do to make your product more consistent? Was their a problem with your mill that you didn't know about? Is there something you should be point out about your product to other customers.

"All over the place" can be a good description if the customer is planning to assemble the wood into a panel and expects it all to be flush. Sometimes there are just a few pieces that are "all over the place" -- these are the outliers in a normal distribution. Set those aside and all of a sudden the rest seems to be pretty consistent.

As a supplier, when I'm selling standard lumber out of inventory, I always give the customer 10% extra, "because we don't grade it". That "extra" is already factored into my price. I could just as easily sell the requested amount of lumber for a lower price, but that doesn't feel the same. With my method, the customer doesn't run out of wood in the middle of the project and then have to interrupt work to come buy another piece or two.

I will usually buy back something the customer isn't happy with. I've taken a loss from time to time and friends have said I'm crazy. But I don't believe you can make a profit on any one item. Profit is calculated at the end of the year (or end of the quarter), when all your expenses and purchases have been tallied and all your receipts deposited. That "loss" I took on one item is invisible. So is all the extra income I earned because the customer was so impressed that he/she told all his/her friends about my great service.

You're a smart guy... ;D

[Brucer]

Every time you make your customer(s) unhappy, there is an opportunity, if you only take the trouble to follow it up.

• You have the opportunity to make things right for the customer. So few businesses do this that you will stand out as a pleasant exception.
• You have the opportunity to improve the way you do things, so the same problems won't occur again. The cheapest way to fix a quality problem is not to have it in the first place.
• You have  the opportunity to understand better what your customers really want. This is a tremendous competitive advantage.

"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."

Think ahead about what you would do when a customer complains about a product; if you have a standard approach, then you are prepared. Just be sure you take each complaint as an opportunity.

[SawyerBrown]

Brucer, just great great advice.  I imagine that with that attitude, in TripAdvisor lingo , you are #1 of xx businesses in your area.   

[Ianab]

Brucer's advice is spot on,

Your product may be perfectly acceptable for rough sawn. But maybe that's not what the customer was expecting?

Like +/- 1/16" is generally acceptable for rough sawn. It's not good enough for a dining table top.

So get hold of the customer and see what EXACTLY is the issue.

Maybe you did accidentally leave some miss-cuts in the order, and they are only 3/4" instead of 1 & 1/16 that you were aiming for? That's an easy fix, replace the reject boards.

Maybe the customer actually wanted dry and planed wood for a project?  You can discuss this with them. It costs more. They can dry the wood and get a local shop to plane it for them?

But the idea is you find a solution that matches the customers problem. This doesn't mean that you give things away for free. Maybe they need to return that lumber, pick up some dry planed product, and pay the difference. Maybe they need to get the wood skip planed to suit them. Maybe what you have sold them isn't what they need at all, and you can't actually help them? Take the product back and give them a refund as a last resort.  At least that way you keep your good name as an honest business.

Or maybe they are just someone that you don't want as a customer at all....  :

[Magicman]

Brucer is as genuine as his words.  A true gentleman and a scholar.


 
Two Forestry Forum hats meet.    

[Brucer]

Now don't you be calling me names, Lynn :D :D :D.

[WDH]

That is pretty much stretching the twain, there, boys  :D. 

[Magicman]

 :P  Well I said it exactly like you told me.  ;D   :D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Y'all making me chuckle. 

[Magicman]

Not only that but Barb can cook.

[LUV2MILL]

Not sure if anyone else has posted a link to this or not but I found a lot of the information useful. I don't know enough about Milling to endorse the information but it claims to be expert reviewed. Purdue is our local university, Nationally it's mostly associated with Aviation and Space, Amelia Earhart and Neil Armstrong etc. but they have a huge agricultural department.

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/pubs/werc/thin%20kerf%20band%20mills/FNR-435-manufacturing-marketing-thin-kerf.pdf



 

[beenthere]

The author, Dan Cassens, is very good at what he does. That is a fine publication.

Purdue has been an active leader in hardwood processing for a long time.

[bkaimwood]

I've been thinking about this for days, as I always do, and it may not be directly relative, but indeed somewhat relative, and I'm not sure of the relative answer, so now that we got most of the relatives out of the way...it was determined that it wasn't board width as suggested in the original post topic, but board thickness that was the concern, BUT...lets say it was board thickness...I know that quartersawn lumber shrink rates can vary somewhat significantly from flatsawn lumber, so there could be a measurable/significant width difference in boards cut from the center of a cant vs boards cut from the top or bottom?

[woodyone.john]

I would love to hear from the original poster what they chose to do and the out come.
cheers john

[sandsawmill14]

I would love to hear from the original poster what they chose to do and the out come.
cheers john

x2

[gimpy]

It's great to hear such old school business advice. Make it as right as is reasonable or unwind the sale. Part of this type of business.