Widths of the wood-can this even happen?

Sawmill Woman · July 08, 2015, 07:11:29 PM

We had our first unhappy customer at the mill today. They took the wood we cut, then I get a call later in the day that they are unhappy with the wood and said it was all different widths. The saw was set with simple set (woodmizer). I measured wood cut both before and after the wood they took. It's all within a 16th of each other. We spot checked the order in question and measurements were fine. Is there any reason (other than the bottom board) that the measurements would differ with simple set? It's not a question of money because these people have more than plenty. Is there anything we could have done differently?

slider · July 08, 2015, 07:21:44 PM

Unless it was going thru a molder i don't see a big deal on a sixteenth.

Ga Mtn Man · July 08, 2015, 07:29:49 PM

How much off are they saying the wood is?

Chuck White · July 08, 2015, 07:33:53 PM

There's a reason they call it "rough-cut" lumber! :

Just sayin'! ;)

WV Sawmiller · July 08, 2015, 07:41:58 PM

SM Woman,

Sorry they weren't happy. Did they look at lumber before they left? Were you selling them lumber or cutting their logs? How big an order was it?

There is no satisfying some people. What's the old saying "He'd complain if they hung him with a new rope."

beenthere · July 08, 2015, 07:50:00 PM

Sounds like you are talking about thickness, and not width when mentioning the "last board" (dog board).

Or is it really width that is off by a 16th?

Magicman · July 08, 2015, 08:31:57 PM

Tension being released as logs are being sawn can cause irregularities.

Ocklawahaboy · July 08, 2015, 08:47:35 PM

I have purchased framing lumber from the big box store that was off by more than that. 3/16 difference in width of 2x4s from the same bundle. 1/16 is nothing to complain about unless you were selling them lumber to build a dollhouse.

sandsawmill14 · July 08, 2015, 09:44:36 PM

Quote from: Chuck White on July 08, 2015, 07:33:53 PM
There's a reason they call it "rough-cut" lumber! :

Just sayin'! ;)

x2 if its within 1/16 of an inch dont let it bother you

you did your part and did it right. when im sawing if it is within an 1/8 its good enough as long as its not to thin. there is nothing that can be built with green lumber where 1/16" matters.
but you could offer to plane one side if you have or know someone with a planer. but find out what it will cost you before you mention it to them. here it only cost about $50 per 1000 bdft. we had to have some 6/4 poplar planed to 5/4 one time to satisfy a customer one time. you just have to decide how much it matters to make him happy far as future business and peace of mind :-\

drobertson · July 08, 2015, 09:55:44 PM

I took it the same as beenthere, after reading to the end, and I have to say I never have had a complaint, even though there have been some thickness changes on the last board, as far as that goes somewhere in between going through the cant, the cants will stress and relieve, it happens. Knowing the target for the end product will help in deciding just how close to saw the lumber. A complaint in this regard sounds just a bit petty in my opinion. Not seeing it, it is hard to really comment on there complaint, but believe you were pretty close as most are. As mentioned rough sawn no matter how precision we do it, really is just rough sawn.

Peter Drouin · July 08, 2015, 09:59:39 PM

Quote from: Sawmill Woman on July 08, 2015, 07:11:29 PM
It's all within a 16th of each other. Is there anything we could have done differently?

Tell them this is a sawmill not Home D. If the wood is not what they like send them packing in a nice way. :D :D :D

Ocklawahaboy · July 08, 2015, 10:25:45 PM

I will also add that I have encountered people who will eat their dinner then complain that it wasn't cooked right and ask for their money back. Sounds kind of like driving off with a load of lumber and then calling to complain.

Not that you are worried about legal issues, but once they pay you and drive off with the product, they have ratified the contract and have no more complaints. The lumber is free on board at your "dock" so to speak.

I suspect they were either looking for something to complain about or they did not understand the concept of rough cut and had an application in mind that had tight tolorances. As mentioned, a planer should solve their issues.

isawlogs · July 08, 2015, 10:29:59 PM

Quote from: Sawmill Woman on July 08, 2015, 07:11:29 PM
they are unhappy with the wood and said it was all different widths.

Is this a width issue or a thickeness issue, if the boards where sawn random width, then alls you can do is offer to edge them to what ever they would be happy with... if you choose to do so.

sandsawmill14 · July 08, 2015, 10:41:02 PM

Quote from: Peter Drouin on July 08, 2015, 09:59:39 PM
Quote from: Sawmill Woman on July 08, 2015, 07:11:29 PM
It's all within a 16th of each other. Is there anything we could have done differently?

Tell them this is a sawmill not Home D. If the wood is not what they like send them packing in a nice way. :D :D :D

thats what i was thinking but my wife says im a cranky old goat :D :D :D (sorry poston

)

SawyerBrown · July 09, 2015, 12:51:05 AM

Quote from: Magicman on July 08, 2015, 08:31:57 PM
Tension being released as logs are being sawn can cause irregularities.

That would be my theory as well, rather than anything to do with Simple Set. You can also get some variation (waviness) within a board if the blade is getting dull.

As far as the dog board is concerned, sometimes the cant has a bit of bow right from the get-go. If it's sitting up a 1/16 or more, I'll talk to the customer about it, and if necessary leave a little extra allowance, and then flip it and saw it flat.

petefrom bearswamp · July 09, 2015, 07:15:46 AM

Chuck White hit the nail on the head, ROUGH lumber.

bandmiller2 · July 09, 2015, 07:49:48 AM

Their ether ignorant of sawmill practice or they want to get it cheaper, ether way next time they want something I'd tell them about the guy down the road that cuts cheap. Life is too short to mess with that type, that's why they have money they made it on the backs of others. Frank C.

DMcCoy · July 09, 2015, 08:30:43 AM

SMW - You mention width and also bottom board. I assume you had a cant on the bottom?
There are all kinds of people.
It is best to keep their appearance of 'money' out of it. It is a business transaction, it is better for you to keep it simple. You never know they might not even own the door knob on their own house, never say that's impossible, I've seen it plenty of times. Also some people think very differently about what is "savvy" business. Complaining might be a way to get extra out of you or it really could be they just don't understand rough cut. Discreet inquiries about them might help you understand if you feel you are in the right. Abusive, complaining people usually leave a wide trail, but be very careful who you ask and what you ask it could get back to them, decide if it is worth the risk or just put up with what they might say. I have had a couple of customers I was glad to send to my competition.

GAB · July 09, 2015, 08:55:55 AM

After reading all of the inputs so far I have mixed feelings.
Is it possible that the customer is having buyer's remorse?
Since I do not know what type of mill you have this may not apply to you or your situation. I have noticed on some occasions (especially sawing soft wood) that the unsupported overhang of the cant can cause the ends of the cant to droop thereby causing the ends of the boards to get thinner as the cant gets thinner and then the bottom board has a very thick end. Also the same can happen if there is stress in the log preventing it from properly seating on the bed rails.
I have on occasion shown the customer the gap between the cant and the bed rails and let them know what is about to happen. Some customers appreciate being told and then they know why some ends are thinner or thicker than the rest of the board.
Hope this makes sense as I found it difficult to write.
Gerald

Sawmill Woman · July 09, 2015, 09:05:22 AM

Thanks for all the replies! Yes, it is thickness. I asked them twice how much it was off and all they would say is "Its all over the place".

Jim_Rogers · July 09, 2015, 09:31:34 AM

Recently, I had a customer who wanted some pine for a "potting bench" for his wife. So, I knew what the end product was going to be. Something that most likely will be outside but not necessarily; something that most likely will be getting wet from watering the plants, but again not necessarily depending on the lady and how she works.

He order some 8' pieces of pine, he wanted heart pine. And he wanted it cut to 1 3/4 x 5 3/4 so that a local carpenter, whom I gave his phone number to, could plane them down to 1 1/2 by 5 1/2".
After I took the order, he called back and said the carpenter wanted them cut to 1 5/8 by 5 5/8" so that he didn't have to plane much off.

Oh, yea and he wanted "dry wood".

I felt like telling him to go to a big box store and by some 2x6 stock from them and leave "us" alone.

As a sawyer, I try and watch my lumber, and my cants so that when I see them move or not come out right, that I can make a trim cut to straighten things out.

As mentioned some people just like to complain, it makes them feel good.

I would ask them what solution do they want? If you can resaw the lumber to better standards you could offer to do that.

If they say they want some money back then you'll have to decide on whether or not it's worth it to refund some. I personally wouldn't, and I wouldn't accept another order from them either. Sometimes you need to "fire" a customer.

Otherwise explain that this is the nature of wood from a "rough sawn" sawmill. And that's why planers were invented. (I usually say that's why "God" created planers) but I don't want to offend anyone here by mentioning "Him"..... :

:D ;D

Jim Rogers

beenthere · July 09, 2015, 10:35:37 AM

SW
If you know it isn't "all over the place", then just move on. Don't cater to their whims, as I agree that it sounds like they might have "buyers remorse".

But, if you think your sawing is "all over the place", then look for the cause on your end. I'd assume you don't have the "wavy" cuts that can happen with dull bands or improper setup. You would know that condition if your sawing was wavy.

Thanks for the clarification that this is thickness variation or thin set, rather than board width variation.

longtime lurker · July 09, 2015, 04:35:13 PM

I have a real simple policy about this kind of thing that has served me well, and I advise all first time customers of it. We get a lot of repeats so it must be working.

Rough sawn is rough sawn. If you want exact dimensions please let us know. We are more then happy to dress timber to size. DAR rates are...

On odd sizes policy is as follows... You supply the log and I'll cut it to whatever size you like.within the limits of my gear and your log. If you're just here to buy odd sized boards then we go to the rack and pull the next size up and dress it back for you. You pay for the board and resizing.

Magicman · July 09, 2015, 05:46:09 PM

Back to my Reply #6. Attention must be given to the cant as boards are removed. If the ends or middle lift up off of the sawmill bed, it will result in the ends of the boards being thicker/thinner than the center. The cant must be flipped 180°.

bkaimwood · July 09, 2015, 06:39:20 PM

As a small business owner, sounds to me like a visit to the clients home with a tape measure is in order...that is what I would do...put it to bed by knowing EXACTLY what is going on, then its simple to know who is in the wrong...if your lumber is within 1/16", you can leave knowing you did the right thing, and explain how rough sawn translates into minor expected variances...if the lumber is NOT within your specifications, you already know what to do...resaw, or refund...two wonderful things are a clear conscience, and a happy customer...but as others have said, you can't make 100% of them happy...