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Post logging cleanup

Started by msal, June 26, 2015, 06:11:03 PM

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msal

Hi everyone, new to the forum. I purchased a house last fall on 27+ acres in NH. The land was logged and it seems like there is a mess everywhere. I'm hoping to get some insight on what I can do to clean up the property. I'm no expert, but it seems like the loggers didn't clean up and just left. I was able to get some information from the neighbor about what went down before I had purchased the house/property. I'm including as much information here as I can think of since I'm not sure what's relevant. A few facts:


  • They didn't clear cut but did log quite a bit of it. It's more like a bunch of big roads criss-crossing throughout the property. There are also a lot of 'clearings', which are tree-less but have a lot of branches/downed trees covering the floor.
  • The land slopes down behind the house, and then levels out mostly. They tried to get around the house and down the slope from the left side first, and I believe it was too steep. They then moved to the other side of the house (right side) after making a mess on the left side. This left a horseshoe shaped logging road around my house.
  • There are a lot of halfway downed trees being only suspended by other trees. This seems particularly unsafe.
  • They logged right up to the neighbor's property on the right. There is about 15 feet of wooded area between my house and a large lot, then a very very thin treeline between the lot and my neighbor. I presume the lot was used for stacking, etc. It's very large, it looks like a cleared house lot between my house and the neighbor.
  • There were a lot of piles of wood left behind. Some almost entire trees, some more like brush piles.
  • The trails have very large wheel divots left from the skidders. This has left a few pools of water since some of them are so deep.
  • There are a lot of downed trees falling across the trails.

The neighbor tells me that he thinks they logged right up to (and potentially past) when the house switched hands. They may have even logged while the bank owned the property, right until I purchased it in the fall. From what my neighbor was saying, he thinks they left "in a hurry". I hiked most of it today and took a bunch of photos. They really don't do justice for the general disarray of the property. I am thinking of taking a video instead. I've uploaded the photos, but still figuring out how to attach them to the post.

I guess I'm just looking for general guidance. I would love to have the trails flattened (no skidder wheel holes, etc.), no trees laying across the trails, and take the suspended trees down. I just want to have the trails be walk-able (I have two young girls too, I want them to be able to walk through our trails with my wife and I)! Right now you can't walk more than 20 feet without hitting one of the criss-crossed trails, so making trails in what's left for forest isn't really an option. Should I hire a logging company to come in and clean up? Seems like it will get very expensive. Is there some equipment I can rent (I'm a fairly capable guy, I've been trying to clean it up by hand and it IS NOT FUN) to clean up the trails? Should I just wait and let nature do it's thing? I'm also curious if this is really bad practice of the loggers to do, or if this is sort of typical for an aftermath of having loggers come in.

Thanks ahead of time!
MSal

Ianab

Sounds like a rough job was done there.

I think you want to prioritise the clean up, so you spend your time on what actually matters, and let nature look after the cosmetic stuff

The hanging trees are an obvious hazard, and need to be gotten on the ground safely where they can't cause any harm. These are a hazard even to work with, so make sure you know what you are doing, or get help, or use machinery and winch them down for a distance.

The trails should probably be cleared of logs and holes filled so you can use them again, and get some machinery around to help sort out the hung trees.

The logs and piles of brush? I'd be letting nature take it's course there. They harbour wildlife and protect new seedlings that are going to grow up from them to regrow your forest. Give those a few years and they will look a lot less ugly with new growth sprouting up out of them. That part of a logging operation is pretty normal. They aren't going to leave the land looking like a manicured park.

Nature will take care of the mess over time even if you do nothing at all, but there are those safety issues that you are right to be concerned about, so concentrate on those.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. Lots of help will be forthcoming.

Putting your location in your profile will help to better understand your future questions.

Being as it sounds like you purchased the land after the logging, then seems it will be on you to begin the cleanup to get your woods the way you want them to be. Enlisting the help of a forester to formulate a management plan may be most helpful to your plans.

With 27 acres, I'd think a small tractor (30-50hp) with loader, and some rear attachment equipment would be a place to start.
A FEL with forks and bucket will be very useful. A chainsaw with the safety equipment another "must have". Then slowly start clearing the hung up trees and bucking up trees in the woods roads that you want to maintain. Before long, you will transform this forest into the beautiful place you imagine it should be for your family.

My acres were logged by the whisky barrel stave crews just before I bought, leaving many cut-down white oak with only some short sections taken from the butt logs. But 50 years later, would never know they were here.  ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ron Wenrich

Here's some of his pictures:



  

  

  

 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ron Wenrich

My opinion is that although it seems to be cut hard, but there is a lot of residual trees left in smaller diameter classes.  I do agree that there leaves a lot to be desired in the clean up.  Those leaners are a hazard and should be pulled down if they are cut off.  If they're uprooted but not cut, they may survive that way until you get a heavy snow.  Either way, I wouldn't expect you to tackle that unless you have a little bit of woods skill.  How many leaners are you talking about?  Lots or just a few?

The roads that you see crisscrossing were probably several skid roads that were put in.  They're different from the main skid roads.  Usually they back in with a skidder to hook up to the logs.  It shouldn't take long for those to heal over.  But, the main haul roads probably should be dressed up.

I would assume that the logs left over are of low value.  I don't think you would attract another logger to come in and pull out more trees in order to help offset expenses.  But, they may have some value to you as either firewood or possibly converting into lumber by a portable mill.  Again, how many do you have? 

I would think you could hire a guy with a dozer to dress up the main skid roads, pull out a few logs, and maybe pull over the leaners.  Flag the roads you want to use as access to the area so they have an easy way to see it.  I imagine that they can do the work in several days to a week, unless you're talking a lot more damage then what I'm seeing.  After they're done, seed the main roads with a shade tolerant grass to minimize any erosion.  Nature will heal those bare areas off the main haul roads fairly quickly.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ianab

Yes the leaners are the most worrying. Like Ron suggests, if you can hire a local contractor with a bulldozer for a couple of days, that and the ruts can be taken care of. Some of the stray logs dragged out or pushed out the way.

The puddle is likely a small stream that been crossed improperly, and needs a bit of repair work?

Then the other stuff you can pretty much ignore. Collect some logs for firewood before it rots if you have a use for that.

There seem to be plenty of remaining trees, so the place isn't really as bad as it looks. Might be many years before it's going to be harvestable again, but if you just want the wood for aesthetics and your own enjoyment it's going to improve pretty quickly.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

msal

Thanks everyone for the very informative responses so far, I just read them all out loud to my wife! I'm glad I posted here, we were pretty overwhelmed before regarding the issue and now not so much.

My neighbor is actually a forester of some sort (he's worked as a limber/tree climber, logger, etc.). He's helped me with a couple of trees here and there so I could potentially work something out with him regarding the leaners. I've been exposed enough to logging (cut down a few smaller trees and seen him do some larger ones) to know I should not mess with those leaners myself unless I am very careful! However, it seems like it might me more feasible to do everything in one shot with some big machinery, whether it's a rental or I pay someone to come in. I have two relatives nearby with tractors so might pick their brains as well. I'll probably check with a few local foresters also.

Agreed on just cleaning up the logging roads themselves - I'm mainly just concerned about having a decent trail through the property that is easy to traverse and most of all isn't dangerous. I'm not worried about the non-primary skid roads or re-harvesting really.

Ron, thanks for re-posting those pictures for me. I was sort of in a hurry when I finished writing the post (2 small girls, enough said haha) and didn't take the time to figure it out. It looks like I also uploaded duplicates by mistake.

Thanks again guys! p.s. I am located in Effingham, NH, not sure if that is visible in my profile.

Autocar

It looks to me the leaners are from a straight line wind rather then a poor logging job.
Bill

Ron Scott

Ditto! to what has already been said. There may be some commercial firewood cutters in your area that might be interested in coming in and doing the desired cleanup and removing the hazardous leaners for the firewood. Plan out the trail system that you want to retain first.   
~Ron

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, msal.  Your location will not be visible until you add it to your profile.
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thecfarm

msal,welcome to the forum. Lots of work,with just a tractor and a chainsaw to clean all that up. I've had my land logged 3 times and I try to clean up some areas each time. There is some damage when the logs are hauled out to the ground.
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msal

Hi guys, it's been a while and this thread is somewhat old but I thought I would update you on what progress I've made.

I spoke to another neighbor whose sons are loggers, he etc. He offered to potentially come in with his sons and clean up the trails for some wood (he has an outdoor furnace and can burn pretty much anything). However, after we went back there and took a look around, his thinking is that I would have to pay someone a good deal of money (not worth it) because of the state that the trails are left in. His biggest concern was that they didn't stay on the 'high side' when sloping down behind the house. It's pretty wet, and he thinks equipment could get stuck in the condition it's in right now. The bigger logs that would be of value to him are also buried by a lot of junk on either side of the trail and wouldn't be easily pulled out, making it really difficult to work off of the trail.

He did offer to clean up the 'landing' area (by the road) up to the point where the trail starts to slope too far downward. There is a lot of unevenness, giant holes left from uprooted trees, limbs/trees all over, etc in the area. He is going to come by himself with his tractor when he has some time and just clean this area up, level everything out, and push some of the dirt piles downward toward the back to start filling in skidder wheel treads where the slope is the worst. He was saying that over time that may make this part of the trail manageable. In return he'll just take some of the lumber that's already felled/piled near the landing. He is also going to fix most of our rock wall that was left a mess alongside the road on both sides of the house.

He was very honest about it and says he doesn't want to make any money, just to break even with lumber. He's a very nice retired guy (him and his wife have been over, they love our kids as well!) and sounds like he will be very transparent as far as how much wood he'll be taking back, etc.

I talked to my OTHER neighbor (he lives right next door, I mentioned him in a prior post) who is a logger/tree climber himself. He's offered to help me with the leaners and with general chainsaw use (he even has an extra pair of chaps!), along with picking out some trees that are good candidates for firewood (dead tops, etc.). He just wants a 6 pack of beer.

All in all it sounds like things are heading in the right direction. At least I'll get the whole landing area/start of the trail straightened out, and get those leaners down eventually. Feeling very grateful for nice neighbors at the moment!

Ron Wenrich

Remember them at Christmas time.   ;)
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

WV Mountaineer

As everyone has stated, the leaner's are the problem.  From what I can see of the pics you supplied, the waste is in the trees not taken, meaning skidded out and put to a mill.  Slash is slash and unfortunately, a part of logging that is often left behind because no markets exist for it in areas where dirty chips and, logger owned chippers are not common.   Aside from that, the trails are a real issue.  This is your land and those roads are an asset if you can keep them passable.  Pay someone to grade the roads to drain the water off them.  They will harden and tighten up quickly.  And, they can clean the trails free from the slash while doing so.  It will cost you a bit of money but, 27 acres of relatively flat land, with roads in it can be graded and smoothed to drain quickly by any decent operator.  Around here, you would be looking at roughly $65 to $85/hour for the machine and operator.  They should be able to grade and smooth the road to drain water and, clean them in a day and a half at most in my experience.  Bite the bullet and do it.  You'll regret not doing so in the future.

Good luck and God Bless
Trying to live for the Lord, spend all the time I got with family, friends, hunting, fishing, and just enjoying my blessings.

GlennCz

i've had my 60 acres logged twice.  I had friend/acquaintances come in for firewood and also put an ad on Craigslist for free firewood.  In Penna, the Recreation Act covers liability plus i have them sign a waiver, then I patrol (basically saying hi and letting them know i am around).  #1 RULE - no standing trees are to be cut even if they are stone dead(or leaners) - too much danger in that.  This has worked out well for me cleaning up the mess and making my property accessible to walking between the roads.  I had no problems with the logger blocking the roads.  I allow the cutters to cut down sapling to access firewood.  In a couple years it all grows in, sadly with beech, best to get the hardwood firewood out ASAP or it'll be there for many years.  The tops take almost 10 years to fully disappear.  1500 trees cut down and you can hardly tell it was logged, except for the tree composition. 

Ron Scott

A good "clean up" plan with rules for the"free firewood" cutters to follow.
~Ron

msal

Yup, those sounds like some good rules to follow. It's too bad the previous owner of the house didn't do more research beforehand. Pretty sure she got taken for a ride based on what the neighbors had said.

An update - I've got about 2 cord and growing cut, split, stacked and covered behind the house. I've been targeting the driest stuff that's already down that I can find. I've also been uncovering it on sunny days and re-covering before any rain to get as much airflow to the wood as possible. My neighbor who has been giving me a hand mentioned possibly trading some wood (he's got plenty stacked for years to come) if what I've got ends up not being dry enough. I've ordered a digital moisture meter, should be here in a few hours actually! I'm going to continue cutting before winter and next spring and work on building up a supply for years to come.

So far we have worked on the landing area of the trail and flattened out the trail down a ways, down the hill and around the corner. Much nicer to walk on so far. He's also helped me drag some logs out to cut up with his tractor, plus I've been using his splitter. In return I've cut him up some pine (I still owe him of course but it's something). There are still a lot of leaners but I'm hoping to tackle them this fall or in the spring with some help.

Just finished installing my chimney yesterday which I will be hooking up a Jotul F45 Greenville to. Working on the hearth next and some wall protection. All in all been very very busy!

Kingmt

Just a few thoughts from reading. It may have been the bank that has the loggers come in. Being that they were there right up until they closed on your loan. Since you mentioned root balls it sounds like there was storm damage more then logging damage. That also doesn't look that bad beside the most of the jobs I've seen. I only know of one company that the land looks better after they leave then it does when they get there & you can't hire them because they are booked for two years.

Glad to hear your getting it where you want it. I'm sawing some Walnut tops that was left behind 20 years ago. I haven't started felling anything new yet except for some stuff I wanted clear cut so some grass can grow. I've also used a tiller to clean up some stuff because I didn't have anything else to work with.
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Peter Smallidge

All the responses have offered sound advice.  I would focus on an earlier recommendation to work with a forester to develop a plan for the property.  Mark the trails that give the best and year round (i.e., stay dry) access.  The trails are your highest priority as they will provide you access for everything else you do. Hire someone to smooth the priority trails and remove the leaners.  In eastern NY/Adirondacks I assume $800 for a long day's work by a dozer and operator. Find a place to take Game of Logging and don't take chances with hazard trees.  In NH, there is a partnership of Cooperative Extension and the state forestry agency; they would likely make a free visit and offer advice...maybe also a plan.  Contact county cooperative extension. 

It sounds like you have a good relationship with your neighbors, which is golden.  Clear communication will ensure those relationships remain solid.

Be safe.
Peter Smallidge
NYS Extension Forester &
Adirondack Woodlot Owner
http://cornellforestconnect.ning.com

John Mc

I'll second Peter S's recommendation on the Game Of Logging classes. That's not to say that it's the only way to safely fell a tree, but some sort of organized training can really give you a jump start in handling this type of thing safely.

One of the great GOL training organizations in the VT/NH area is Northeast Woodland Training. Check out their web site for upcoming classes.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

patvetzal

Do you have any plans for this property or is it just for relaxation? Either way, if you have any snow to move you will find that a small 4x4 tractor with loader will make life a lot EASIER.
Good neighbours are also a Godsend.....having your own tractor will let you repay favors and even earn a bit of goodwill with others in the area.

msal

Sorry for the late responses, I haven't logged in in quite a while. Great info here, I had no idea bout the GOL program. I've been cutting up a lot of downed wood but am far from an expert and could really benefit from something like that.

I was able to help my neighbor out a bit (helped him put a roof on his outdoor boiler shed), it was nice to be able to help him for a change.

Totally agree on the tractor, but probably not something I can afford for at least a year or two.

Just had my first burn in my wood stove (installed everything myself). Working great so far, I'll see about posting a picture. I have 2 more pieces of trim to put up and then I should be 100% done!

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