Anyone doing Forestry Mulching/Site Prep Mastication

[pine]

Anyone doing forestry mulching/site prep mastication? 
I have done a lot by hand with Stihl brushcutters FS450/550 and chainsaws and have rented CTL's with mulchers on them, but am looking to purchase my own equipment.  Any input from folks who are doing it and the equipment they are using.  I have looked at many/most and am narrowing it down but thought more input is better input.
Thanks

[NH-Murph]

I don't do it for a living, but have noticed that those in this area that do seem to use the ASV RC-100 with the forestry package and mulcher pretty frequently.  Those ASV CTLs are impressive machines. 

[pine]

The ASV machines had a great rep.  I have heard a lot of bad mouthing them since Terex took over. Still a great machine but complaints on quality.  Do not know the validity of it.  Lots of folks seem critical of the SVL90-2 Kubota but hard to find actual users who complain.  Hoping some others join in.

[bucknwfl]

All of my contractors run ASV on the small skid steers and run up to 300 hp machines in many different configurations

In the south keeping them running cool is a big problem with all the debris and sand.  ASV put the coolers on top last year but when it is 95 degrees in a dust cloud nothing stays cool for long

[DDDfarmer]

I have 15 acres being cleaned in a couple of weeks with a FAE machine.  Part of a soils and crop test project.  I'm told the first pass is only the trees and 1" max of soil then after it dries down for 2 months its a full 8" pass with the forestry tiller to incorporate everything.  Company rep who was here to approve the site told me that I could plant my crops right after the final pass.

I'm taking pics for sure and will post as they progress.

[redprospector]

Pine,
I've got 2 masticators. I've got a Bobcat T320 that I run a Tushogg 6000 head on, and a Fecon FTX90 with a Fecon Bullhog head.
The Tushogg is a good head, but takes a lot of hydraulic power to keep up with it, I wouldn't recommend it unless you are in real rocky ground...then it shines.
The Fecon is a great machine, and the factory support is better than anyone else I've used. In my personal experience I can highly recommend the Fecon machines.
The Bobcat is a pretty good machine and holds up pretty good. But any machine running a mastication head is going to require more maintenance than they would just pushing a bucket or something. I've been able to run both of my machines all day before cleaning the cooling system during the winter, or monsoon seasons. But this time of year I have to blow out the radiator, oil cooler, and ac condensers about 3 or 4 times a day. There are some tricks that can extend your run time some.

As far as the ASV/Terex goes...I had a real bad experience with Terex. I bought a brand new 2011 Terex PT-100G forestry machine. Out of the 5 months that I owned that machine, it spent 62 days in the dealers shop. Terex is undoubtedly the worst dealer/factory support that I have ever experienced.

Whatever you do, insist on a demo. But remember, anything should perform good for a day or 2.

This is all from my personal experience. Your mileage may vary.  ;D

[redprospector]

Found a picture that had both of them in it.



 

[VT_Forestry]

Last year we were in the market for a CTL with a mulching head attachment, and we demoed 2 brands.  The Terex PT-110 Forestry package with a Gyro-Trac head, and a Cat 299D XHP with a Fecon head.  The Terex was impressive - loved the finished product from the Gyro-Trac head and loved the extra ground clearance and armoring that the forestry package provided.  As good as it looked though, our vehicle shop guys were not impressed with servicibility - normal routine maintenance stuff was hard to get to.  Then we ran the Cat - pretty nice little machine but what ultimately sold us was the support from both Cat and Fecon.  We have an older wheeled Franklin muclcher with a Fecon head and have been nothing but impressed with the support from them.  We use the 299D mostly for clearing trees along trail edges as well as pre-commercial thinning.  I want to say that out the door that machine was somewhere north of $100k.



This past year we have also been in the market for a replacement for the big Franklin mulcher.  We demoed a Barko 930, the brand new Cat 586C, and a Tigercat M726E.  The Barko was nice but came with a Seppi head that we were concerned about parts availability.  The Cat was a SWEET machine, but at 46,000+ lbs, she was a beefy girl with no wide tire option.  The Tigercat is 10K lighter, has a Fecon head instead of an in-house Cat head, and we can put a 44x73 floatation tire on it. We should be taking delivery by the end of July.  Looking forward to that for sure!  We'll use it primarily for site prep since we can't burn here as well as pipeline ROW clearing.  Price was a bargain at just shy of $400k, I say bargain because the Cat was almost $100k more  :D

[pine]

The Fecon head BH72SS with a HDT rotor and variable displacement motor is almost a done decision.  May change to go with the FGT rotor but will most likely stay with the HDT option.

The real decision is what to do with the CTL.  Thought about the Fecon dedicated unit (FTX100) but the cost is much higher.

Really looked at the Kubota SVL90-2 but it has a limited background/history in the mulching world.  Lots of negative from many folks but the people that have them really like them.
The Terex PT110 forestry unit seems really nice but there are so many folks that just hate the undercarriage and say to stay away from it.

[pine]

Last year we were in the market for a CTL with a mulching head attachment, and we demoed 2 brands.  The Terex PT-110 Forestry package with a Gyro-Trac head, and a Cat 299D XHP with a Fecon head.  The Terex was impressive - loved the finished product from the Gyro-Trac head and loved the extra ground clearance and armoring that the forestry package provided.  As good as it looked though, our vehicle shop guys were not impressed with servicibility - normal routine maintenance stuff was hard to get to. 

I am really sold on the PT110 but lots of criticism from people on the undercarriage.  What did your shop guys not like about the serviceability and what was so hard to get access  to?  I understand that it is one of the easiest to clean due to the open track design and the droppable belly pans.  Most CTL's are a pain to clean out the belly area but the PT110 you just drop the pan and go.

[logloper]

Check out SuperTrak, and the takaeuchi with a forestry package looks good also.

[redprospector]

The Fecon head BH72SS with a HDT rotor and variable displacement motor is almost a done decision.  May change to go with the FGT rotor but will most likely stay with the HDT option.

The real decision is what to do with the CTL.  Thought about the Fecon dedicated unit (FTX100) but the cost is much higher.

Really looked at the Kubota SVL90-2 but it has a limited background/history in the mulching world.  Lots of negative from many folks but the people that have them really like them.
The Terex PT110 forestry unit seems really nice but there are so many folks that just hate the undercarriage and say to stay away from it.

Before you decide that the FTX100 is too expensive consider the fact that it is a purpose built machine, and remember the old saying...You don't always get what you pay for, but you'll always pay for what you get.
If a machine is attractive because it is priced lower than all of the other manufacturers, there is probably a reason for that.
As far as the PT110 goes, with so many telling you not to go there, I would hope that you think long and hard before spending that 90 grand. Their undercarriage isn't the only problem they have had.
Kubota builds a fine engine, but they are new to the CTL business, and really new to the forestry mulching world. I'd personally give them a little more time to prove themselves in the market.

[barbender]

If I was spending the money, I would listen hard to so.eone that is already doing it every day ;) ASV has just been sold again, in the past year. So Terex no longer owns them. I think Manitowac bought them? I can't remember for sure, I know a lot of guys that work in there, this is what they told me. The only reason I would own an ASV is if I needed the flotation their undercarriage provides (it is superior to all others in that regard) but then I would buy a Cat machine with an ASV undercarriage.

[pine]

If I was spending the money, I would listen hard to so.eone that is already doing it every day ;) ASV has just been sold again, in the past year. So Terex no longer owns them. I think Manitowac bought them? I can't remember for sure, I know a lot of guys that work in there, this is what they told me. The only reason I would own an ASV is if I needed the flotation their undercarriage provides (it is superior to all others in that regard) but then I would buy a Cat machine with an ASV undercarriage.

I will not portray myself as an expert on the following: but Terex seems to think they still own the rights to produce the PT110 and the Terex rep seems to think as of last week that they had not been sold out from under.   ASV was bought by Terex a couple of years back (2008).  I think the CAT undercarriage that is similar to the ASV/Terex undercarriage is because Cat owned about 40% of ASV way back and designed their CTL U/C  based on ASV's and bought ASV parts to build theirs, but could be wrong.

The real decision is what to do with the CTL.  Thought about the Fecon dedicated unit (FTX100) but the cost is much higher.

Really looked at the Kubota SVL90-2 but it has a limited background/history in the mulching world.  Lots of negative from many folks but the people that have them really like them.
The Terex PT110 forestry unit seems really nice but there are so many folks that just hate the undercarriage and say to stay away from it.

Before you decide that the FTX100 is too expensive consider the fact that it is a purpose built machine, and remember the old saying...You don't always get what you pay for, but you'll always pay for what you get.
If a machine is attractive because it is priced lower than all of the other manufacturers, there is probably a reason for that.
As far as the PT110 goes, with so many telling you not to go there, I would hope that you think long and hard before spending that 90 grand. Their undercarriage isn't the only problem they have had.
Kubota builds a fine engine, but they are new to the CTL business, and really new to the forestry mulching world. I'd personally give them a little more time to prove themselves in the market.

I may have not been clear about what folks have told me about the PT110.  They have not said "not to go there"  they "hate the undercarriage" for the expense when it has to be fixed/maintained at around 1000 hours or so because it is a more expensive undercarriage to maintain, but everyone that states that also states that it is better for what it does.

You stated:

Their undercarriage isn't the only problem they have had.

What other problems  have you heard about or had to deal with on the PT110?
I would like to hear more details on that if you would please.

[VT_Forestry]

Basically, they didn't like the fact it wasn't a cat  :D I really liked the  open tack design of the Terex but for them, there is a Cat dealer 5 minutes down the road, and parts are super easy to get.  It was probably more a comfort thing for the shop guys, they know Cat and can work on Cat...I'll have to ask what they specifically didn't like about it

[redprospector]

I may have not been clear about what folks have told me about the PT110.  They have not said "not to go there"  they "hate the undercarriage" for the expense when it has to be fixed/maintained at around 1000 hours or so because it is a more expensive undercarriage to maintain, but everyone that states that also states that it is better for what it does.

You stated:

Their undercarriage isn't the only problem they have had.

What other problems  have you heard about or had to deal with on the PT110?
I would like to hear more details on that if you would please.

I have had ZERO experience with the PT110. After the experience I had with the PT100G, I can't imagine going back for more.  >:(
The company itself was terrible to deal with, and I have heard of nothing that would make me think that anything has changed. Any and everything that went wrong with my machine was (according to Terex) my fault. It's a toss up as to which was worse, their attitude, or their machine.
The first problem I had was the programing they put on it. It was programed to have a 1.5 second delay between forward and reverse (on the pilot control). Let's see, oh yeah, if the control is in neutral and the tracks move 1" the machine will lock down to protect from a runaway. Those two programs guaranteed that if you were on a slope and stopped, you would probably never get going again. The plastic fuel tank on the outside of the machine (under the lift arms) was another epic fail for a mastication machine. Every few minutes you would have to stop and clear debris from under the arms, or risk collapsing the tank. The plastic hydraulic tank that they used was not much fun to deal with either. Mine ruptured twice in the 3 months of run time I got out of it.
One of the things that went wrong when I took it in the last time was the idler pulley came apart throwing the serpentine belt off, instantly overheating the engine. The hood wouldn't open without a pry bar from the last time I had it in their shop, so all I could do was kill the engine and let it sit there and cook.
On steep, rocky ground their undercarriage doesn't hold up well. Especially with a 1.5 second delay in the pilot controls. When I refused to pick that machine up from the dealers shop, it had around 350 hours on it, and the tracks and undercarriage were all but gone.
Now I will give them credit where credit is due. When the machine was running right, and working on pretty level ground, it was a pleasure to run. Well, when the ac was working it was.  :D
There are other things I've left out, but these few things will give you an idea. All of these things were my fault according to Terex, and it doesn't help the situation when a factory rep says to you over the phone that you need to learn how to run equipment...while you're looking for help from them so you don't loose the job you're using to make payments.
I had to go buy a 5 year old FTX90 to take up the slack for my brand new Terex. I finished that 300 acre job with the Fecon without 1 problem. So much for needing to learn how to run equipment, eh?
I've tried to give you warning without "bashing" Terex. But it's impossible to tell about my experience without it.
You have been warned. If you are still sold on any of Terex's products, all I can say is good luck. But you're the one who asked if anyone had any experience with them.

[pine]

What other problems  have you heard about or had to deal with on the PT110?
I would like to hear more details on that if you would please.

I have had ZERO experience with the PT110. After the experience I had with the PT100G, I can't imagine going back for more.  >:(
The company itself was terrible to deal with, and I have heard of nothing that would make me think that anything has changed. Any and everything that went wrong with my machine was (according to Terex) my fault. It's a toss up as to which was worse, their attitude, or their machine.
The first problem I had was the programing they put on it. It was programed to have a 1.5 second delay between forward and reverse (on the pilot control). Let's see, oh yeah, if the control is in neutral and the tracks move 1" the machine will lock down to protect from a runaway. Those two programs guaranteed that if you were on a slope and stopped, you would probably never get going again. The plastic fuel tank on the outside of the machine (under the lift arms) was another epic fail for a mastication machine. Every few minutes you would have to stop and clear debris from under the arms, or risk collapsing the tank. The plastic hydraulic tank that they used was not much fun to deal with either. Mine ruptured twice in the 3 months of run time I got out of it.
One of the things that went wrong when I took it in the last time was the idler pulley came apart throwing the serpentine belt off, instantly overheating the engine. The hood wouldn't open without a pry bar from the last time I had it in their shop, so all I could do was kill the engine and let it sit there and cook.
On steep, rocky ground their undercarriage doesn't hold up well. Especially with a 1.5 second delay in the pilot controls. When I refused to pick that machine up from the dealers shop, it had around 350 hours on it, and the tracks and undercarriage were all but gone.
Now I will give them credit where credit is due. When the machine was running right, and working on pretty level ground, it was a pleasure to run. Well, when the ac was working it was.  :D
There are other things I've left out, but these few things will give you an idea. All of these things were my fault according to Terex, and it doesn't help the situation when a factory rep says to you over the phone that you need to learn how to run equipment...while you're looking for help from them so you don't loose the job you're using to make payments.
I had to go buy a 5 year old FTX90 to take up the slack for my brand new Terex. I finished that 300 acre job with the Fecon without 1 problem. So much for needing to learn how to run equipment, eh?
I've tried to give you warning without "bashing" Terex. But it's impossible to tell about my experience without it.
You have been warned. If you are still sold on any of Terex's products, all I can say is good luck. But you're the one who asked if anyone had any experience with them.

Thank you.  I do not consider that you are bashing.  You gave a run-down of your experiences with the PT100 and I really appreciate it.  Your insight and that of others is exactly what I have been, and am looking for in my search for which system I will go with.
You are correct in stating that you have been forthright and have warned me and I thank you for that.

[ely]

we run the terex 110 forestry package at work and it has the fecon head that goes with it... really a nice little machine, very maneuverable but it does have the problems that have been mentioned before like the ac not working correctly, but we have a problem with sticks or mud getting caked up under where the hyd lines come out of the frame and go back in. it seems to me causing a prob with the track movement sensors and throwing the brake on at inopportune times. I wish they had a fix for it.

[okmulch]

I use Cat skid steers and have been using them for 11 years. I have a 287 c model with over 4000 hours on it. By the way haven't had it for 11 years upgraded several years ago. We run them every day in the woods moving cedar trees for our grinding operation, along with cutting cedars down with shears and high speed saws. I use the asv style undercarriage and will not use the other style like bobcats or John Deere have on them. We have to deal with the stumps left after cutting the cedar down and the bobcat style tracks will pop off regularly. Looked at buying a terex but after hearing a lot of the stories I have stayed with Cat.

[barbender]

Pine, I did a little Google research- Manitex purchased 51% of ASV, with Terex retaining 49%. As far as the Cat machines go, they use 2 different undercarriages. 1 is the ASV undercarriage, and the other is a Cat designed one. They differentiate the 2 by calling one an MTL, and the other a CTL. As a side note, I put in many hours in the seat of the original prototype Cat 287 CTL, Cat sent the machine up here to get outfitted with the ASV u/c, then ASV r&d abused it for a while testing it, and finally it ended up at the asphalt paving company I used to work for. The Cat machine was good (except the Perkins that Cat and ASV share have some issues) the ASV undercarriage is high maintenance  but it can do stuff others cannot.

[treefireguy]

I just purchased a new Vermeer FT100 Forestry Tractor/Mulcher.    Working in New Mexico, Pinyon/Juniper mostly.