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Investing in gold and silver

Started by Qweaver, June 14, 2015, 02:24:08 PM

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Qweaver

We just sold some land and are deciding how to invest the proceeds.  The stock market and the state of the US dollar have me more than a little concerned.  We are considering gold and silver.  I don't like the fact that I have to pay a substantial fee to both buy and sell the metal.  I also just don't know enough about the growth in value potential.  Looking at the charts for the past two years does not give me a lot of faith.  I'm going to study on this as much as I can but I really don't even know where to start.  This does give me a good tax exempt way to pass wealth to my daughter.  I'd like to hear suggestions from some of you that know more about this than I do.  I'm just totally ignorant about gold and silver.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Cedarman

Qweaver, ignorance can be eliminated.  It takes lots of study, thought, study and lots and lots of research.  You will never be sure of making the right decision.  If you get it figured out for sure PM me, then you and I will become multimillionaires. 
You might invest in gold mine companies if you think that is safer.  You really have to study them also.
I understand your plight.   But there are no guarantees, just like starting a business.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Magicman

The "metal" market is very fickle. :P Be careful.

The only ones that I can depend upon is the gold in my teeth and silver in my hair.
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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

coxy

 please let us know how you do     my money is all in old iron  ;D    MM that was a funny remark about the silver  ;D

Hilltop366

I would rather invest in real-estate but I guess that is what you are getting rid of. Best of luck!

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The best investment in the world is land, IMO.
It takes 10 acres to be considered a farm in my county and the farm taxes are a little over a dollar an acre if you show your producing something like trees, produce, hay, etc.
But the big pay off is the enjoyment you get from working your land that you will surly pass on to someone in time....that my friend is a fact.  :)

So I would try to find land at a cheaper price than you sold yours for.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Qweaver

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on June 14, 2015, 05:23:13 PM
The best investment in the world is land, IMO.
It takes 10 acres to be considered a farm in my county and the farm taxes are a little over a dollar an acre if you show your producing something like trees, produce, hay, etc.
So I would try to find land at a cheaper price than you sold yours for.
I've owned several types of land and I keep good records.  I owned 10 lots in Texas and built a rental unit on two of them.  When you consider the cost to buy the land, build the rental, maintain and make improvements, pay taxes, insurance, etc... we never made a profit on the rental and made very little profit selling the land after a hurricane destroyed the rental unit.  And it was a lot of work.   Much more work than investing in the stock market or buying and storing gold.  I know  that some folks do well with land...not me.   I'm just looking for input from people that know about investing in metals.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Qweaver on June 14, 2015, 06:35:47 PM
  I'm just looking for input from people that know about investing in metals.

Buy logs. The ones around here are full of metal.  :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

tule peak timber

persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Ron Wenrich

I've seen some pretty outlandish claims about where gold is headed.  A lot has to do with the sovereign debt of nations.  There's a lot happening right now in a lot of different places that are going to have an effect on the value of your money. 

I think you have to figure out how long you're going to hold it.  Bonds stink now, and they're going to get worse.  Interest rates are about to go up.  When that happens, stocks will probably drop pretty hard.  So, it would be worthwhile to have cash available to buy stocks when they are cheap.  Only go into quality. 

I would think that buying some gold and silver would be OK, but I wouldn't want to put all my money there.  Liquidity can be a problem.  After you buy it, what will you do with it?  It may be pretty to look at, but it isn't very safe to keep in your house.  Look at it as a way of diversifying your assets.  One thing about gold, it won't go down to zero.  But, it can get pretty cheap. 

If you go the gold route, you'll have to be able to withstand market drawdowns, and there will be long periods where the performance just stinks.  Buying any asset has an associated risk.  As said, do a ton of research.  Just remember that when everyone is selling, it's a good time to buy.  We're not quite at that point.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

tule peak timber

For what it is worth I have talked to several people as recently as today seeing a severe correction in the market coming , and a sharp rise in gold associated. Me , I'm buying logs , and lots of them. Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

red oaks lumber

the metal market has more room to go down faster,than raise slower :) the safest way is put it in money markets or c.d's you won't make much but,you won't lose any and depending how there termed you can acsess them quite readily.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

tule peak timber

Lots of good info on this thread. :)
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

ozarkgem

I would say the silver market is probably bottomed since productions cost are around 18.00 per oz. But it could stay down for the next 20 yrs also. I have a little bit but not much. I am going with real estate. The stock market is rigged. You don't stand much of a chance.
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LaneC

  I am concerned about the "substantial fee" for selling the metal that you are speaking of. I am not aware of any selling fee (other than the possibility of taxes) for selling gold or silver. I would love to be more educated on this this subject. Just some more food for thought is an IRA, and they allow the posession of precious metals as a part of the account if you wanted to research that as part of your quest.
Man makes plans and God smiles

sandsawmill14

when i clicked on link i was expecting walnut and cherry :D :D smiley_dunce
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gimpy

I have had a little gold and silver bullion for years. The price has gone up. But to sell it and pay the fees, plus it's a headache to sell. Investing in the market? I can't compete with the rich in the market. They tend to buy and sell when it's advantages and I get left with the aftermath and loses. On the other hand, when I got an inheritance, I bought raw land (2009 - 300+ acres) at a reduced price. Now the price has gone up. Plus I am improving the land. Plus I am in the process of starting to build my home there. Then I'll probably sell it for a substantial profit and buy a much smaller place (10-40 acres) along a river and retire from everything except fishing and chasing my wife around. I've never made any "profit" from any investment except real estate.
Gimpy old man
Lucky to have a great wife
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WmFritz

I did well with a gold mining stock a few years ago. I would take a hard look at an ETF to get exposure to gold. And then I would only invest 10% of my cash, maybe 20%, but no more then that.  I sleep better with a diversified portfolio. All my money on one horse is gambling.

~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

Ianab

My issue with gold as an "investment" is that it doesn't generate an income as such. It may go up (and down) in value, but in reality over a long term it is pretty much tied to inflation.  Maybe you can make money by buying low and selling high, but that relies on timing. If the price is low when you need to liquidate, sucks to be you.

Now there are other investments that actively generate income, even if it's passive earnings. Land you can grow stuff, or rent it out. Shares (good ones anyway) pay a dividend. Bonds etc pay interest. Logs you can saw into product you can sell. So over the long term you can either use that investment to live on, or reinvest it to grow your net worth.

But gold is really just a liability, effectively it costs you money, until you sell it.

QuoteI sleep better with a diversified portfolio. All my money on one horse is gambling.

100% agree on that one.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

timberlinetree

I'm no financial wiz but I see where I could have made some money with cars.

My graduation present from mom was the removal of all my junk cars/trucks. It cost her around 150 bucks to have the junkyard remove each vihicle. Now a days I could get 200-300 bucks for each!

Our 81 vw camper van sold for 3k around 5-10 yrs ago. Just saw same van same shape selling for 20k!

I know a guy who makes money buying/selling lead and I know battery core charges keep goinggoing up. Alot

IMHO I would not take any risks of losing it and be happy just to have it. Best wished
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

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Claybraker

I'll toss my $.02 into this. Not saying I've got all the answers.

First, you mentioned a tax exempt way to pass wealth to your daughter. Not sure what the shysters selling precious metals told you, but it's not any more tax exempt than any other asset. For 2015, the estate tax exclusion is $5.43 million per individual. That means you and your wife can pass a combined $10.86 million without any estate tax. If you are above those limits, or think you might reach those limits, then you really need to get an accountant, an attorney, and a financial planner involved ASAP.

The best way to minimize risk is a diversified portfolio. A little of this, a little of that, some will increase in value while others lose value, hopefully the entire portfolio will outpace inflation. Your investment horizon also matters. If you've got 10-15 years, one of the best investments is an S&P 500 index fund. The downside risk is the market is currently bouncing off new highs. I've been waiting for the predicted correction for the last year, but I've been moving some money into it every quarter, and at least so far, I'm up pretty good. The concept is called dollar cost averaging. If we get a 10% correction, then I can move more money into it. I'm not sure what the stock market is going to do in the next year, or the next 5 years, but over a 10 year horizon it's probably going to do quite well.

The only use for precious metals and jewels is in a SHTF scenario, and I'm thinking along the lines of Jews bribing their way out of Europe during the Holocaust. Personally, I don't see things getting that bad. Investing in the 500 largest publicly traded US firms is likely to generate a better return.

Qweaver

Wow, there are a lot of well stated financial plans in response to my question here. I'm not a financial wiz but I have done well in the stock market for a lot of  years now and I am only seeking info on precious metals, with which I have no experience.   I just want to take some of my money out of the markets and put it in a safe place that does not require a lot of time and effort to manage.  We had big plans for the farm that we just sold. But it was going to be a ton of work and worry and we do not need that at our age...so we turned the farm into cash that I do not want to put back into the market.  My need to make a lot of money is in the past...I just need to keep what I have.  I was a very aggressive investor at one time and that worked for me...not now.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

florida

To me the biggest problem with metal is that you're buying at retail and selling at wholesale. Once you factor in your losses on each end the metal has to go up huge amounts to beat the market. I like Vangard Index funds myself.
General contractor and carpenter for 50 years.
Retired now!

mesquite buckeye

If you buy 100 oz silver bars and find the right dealer, you can be treated like another dealer. Those smaller bars are, for the for lack of a better term, the sucker market. You will lose at both ends with those. That was my dad's experience. He played the silver market for years. Just sayin'. :)

Of course he had bought into Apple in the beginning. If he had held on to his investment it would have been worth several million now. He sold. And so it goes. :snowball: :snowball: :snowball:

Calling the future by looking out the rear view mirror doesn't work. If it was easy we would all be rich. 8) :snowball: :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Claybraker

Quote from: Qweaver on June 15, 2015, 08:53:46 AM
Wow, there are a lot of well stated financial plans in response to my question here. I'm not a financial wiz but I have done well in the stock market for a lot of  years now and I am only seeking info on precious metals, with which I have no experience.   I just want to take some of my money out of the markets and put it in a safe place that does not require a lot of time and effort to manage. 

10 year Treasuries in a ladder might be an attractive alternative. A good rule of thumb in investing, when you sit down at the table and don't know who the mark is, it's you.

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