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Do B57 belts shrink?? Yes they do!

Started by SawyerBrown, June 03, 2015, 11:33:18 AM

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SawyerBrown

Went to do the 50-hr belt swap this morning and couldn't get the belts off -- either one of them!  May be able to force them off, but normally they are very easy to remove.  They're not tight in the pulleys but there's less slop than normal.

First thought was sawdust got packed in the pulleys -- nope, clean as a whistle.

My conclusion is either the pulleys got bigger (not likely) or the belts shrunk.

The only thing different since the last rotation is sawing some cedar power poles. Very dry, and as blades dulled (faster than normal) the blades got pretty hot. Does heat shrink belts??

Any advice appreciated!
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

AnthonyW

Mine have not shrunk that I can notice. What are you using for lube?
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

mason44

In general belts usually stretch not shrink. Can you cut them?

AnthonyW

Urethane and vinyl will shrink when exposed to petroleum products. Ie., Urethane wheel belts will harden and shrink if you use diesel as your lube.
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

Magicman

What brand/manufacturer are you using? 

No shrinkage here and I take mine off, clean, and flip or rotate them with every blade change.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

justallan1

Just a thought, but is it possible that certain brands/types of belts actually swell up when using certain chemicals for coolant/lube. That would make them tighter on your wheels for sure.
Just an option to look at.

Dave Shepard

If they were soaked in diesel fuel, they could get tight, but I've run an LT40 with a lot of diesel and never had any issues with that. Sounds like a strange situation.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

47sawdust

Quote from: AnthonyW on June 03, 2015, 01:27:58 PM
Urethane and vinyl will shrink when exposed to petroleum products. Ie., Urethane wheel belts will harden and shrink if you use diesel as your lube

I ran bar oil/diesel full on my urethane belts from Suffolk Saw,at their recommendation with good results.On my Lt30 with B57's I do the same.8 years,no problems.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Ox

8 years out of a set sounds like a good deal to me.  I may have to look at these closer as I run diesel/bar oil as well.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

47sawdust

Clarification is needed on my part.I have used diesel/bar for 8 years,urethane belts were on my Kasco,B57's on the 'mizer.
I also saw at a whoppin' 60 hours a year.
Mick
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Chuck White

Quote from: SawyerBrown on June 03, 2015, 11:33:18 AM
Went to do the 50-hr belt swap this morning and couldn't get the belts off -- either one of them!  May be able to force them off, but normally they are very easy to remove.  They're not tight in the pulleys but there's less slop than normal.

First thought was sawdust got packed in the pulleys -- nope, clean as a whistle.

My conclusion is either the pulleys got bigger (not likely) or the belts shrunk.

The only thing different since the last rotation is sawing some cedar power poles. Very dry, and as blades dulled (faster than normal) the blades got pretty hot. Does heat shrink belts??

Any advice appreciated!

I believe this is at least partially true.

As the pulleys get warm during operation, they do get a little bigger, at least I think they do.

I sometimes have a tough time getting the belts off, when it's time to swap sides with them, you should be able to get them off without tools!

Wood-Mizer recommends switching the belts from the drive side to the driven side and vice-versa every once in a while to extend belt life.

I use only Wood-Mizer B-57 belts!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

drobertson

Weird, never seen it, nothing like it, not even close, the WMZ B-57's last and last,  as mentioned, rotated if not every blade change, at least the second or third.  During a blade change I scrape off the belt and rotated it around the wheel, they have been times when they are stuck down in there, but starting from the bottom taking out the slack loosens them up for easy cleaning. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

bandmiller2

I think the problem is as the belts get old they get hard and tougher to remove. An old butter knife and a couple of screw drivers should do the deed. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

SawyerBrown

Wait, (4x4), you're saying you have to take the blade off first?  Eureka!!   :D

OK, to answer a couple of questions raised:  I only use Woodmizer belts (I'm sure they don't manufacture them, but got the belts from them);  the only thing I normally use for lube is water with some dish soap -- never any petroleum products.  When it gets below freezing, I use a certain amount of pink RV antifreeze (depending on how cold it's going to get), and if I'm sawing stuff with a lot of sticky sap (pine), I'll add some Pine-Sol.  But since the last belt rotation (which I do every 50 hours or so), I've only used the water/dish soap mixture.  The pulleys may get bigger when warm (not sure), but this was before I ran it for the day, so everything was "cold".

This very set of belts is relatively new, I've rotated them before with no problems, and there's nothing else obviously wrong with them (which is why I'd hate to cut them off).  I do think I could get them off with screw drivers and an old butter knife (probably better if there's a little butter left on it  :D ), but it would probably be just as hard getting them back on. 

The only thing that sparked an idea ... could the cedar power poles have some petroleum product in that got into the belts?

Other than that, I'm still stumped.  Sawed fine today anyway.

Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

Magicman

I have absolutely no answer.   ???  Your lube use and lack of petroleum use is ~exactly like mine.  I do not have the cold, but I do use the RV antifreeze.  I would tend to discount the power pole sawing as a cause.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Percy

Quote from: Magicman on June 03, 2015, 01:46:29 PM
 

No shrinkage here
How about if the lake is really cold??? :D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Peter Drouin

When I was at the WM open house this spring in Maine. It was said that WM is making the 57 a little smaller now. Something about trying to keep the sawdust out from under them.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Magicman

I have not bought new B57's in several years, so I am not familiar with the latest belts.  I have a stash of several B57's, some new and some used.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

I still think the belt should come off without the use of tools and certainly without cutting.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Magicman

I agree.  I have never had a problem with "too" loose belts.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SawyerBrown

Took a picture tonight to show how tight these belts have become.  I'm pulling out about as hard as I can ...


 

Seems very strange both belts did it at the same time ...
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

ellmoe

  Re: picture. Could you have pitch build-up under the belts, on the pulley, that increases the circumference of the pulley, putting the belts in a tighter position?
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

justallan1

Okay another great idea for you, are they just stiff from the cold and would it limber them up a bit for you to run them awhile to warm them up, then see if they come off any easier?

redprospector

When I was running a Wood-Mizer LT30, I had to sub in some b-56 belts when I couldn't find the b-57's locally. They fit about like the belt in the picture. They were a bugger to get on and off, but they worked good.
A b-57 is a b-57, that's based on the length and width of the belt. If Wood-Mizer is making them smaller, they're probably using a b-56 and just shipping them when b-57's are ordered because that's what their manuals say, and that's what they've used for ever. But if it's smaller than a b-57...it ain't a b-57.  ;)
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

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