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scrap metal bandmill build

Started by mason44, June 01, 2015, 11:49:25 PM

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Joe Hillmann

Quote from: mason44 on June 04, 2015, 11:50:58 AM
Quote from: Joe Hillmann on June 04, 2015, 10:40:27 AM
If you go with steel band wheels rather than belts you will probably have to roll your your blades as well when you are setting and sharpening them.

Not familiar with rolling a band, is it to flatten? I have a 36" tannewitz, but only run 1" blades and havent had issues so dont know all the ins and outs of blades

Rolling is something cooks seems to think is very important.  None of the other manufactures that I know of suggest it, but cooks is the only one with steel wheels without belts so I assume the belts on the other mills give the blade some cushion to so it isn't as necessary.

Here is a link to cooks view on rolling the blades.

http://www.cookssaw.com/index.php/sawmill-blade-insight/why-do-i-have-to-roll-my-blades

You can also go to cookssaw.com and type roller in the search bar there to get lots of information on how it is done and what it does.

Magicman

The crowned steel bandwheels will gradually cup the blade which then needs to be re-flattened with the band roller.  Belted bandwheels do not cause this cupping.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

mason44

I have little experience with blades but I so have quite a bit of experience hammering, forming and deforming sheet metal as I do quite a bit of it. Metal deforms from heat and pressure or a combination of both,  So whichever wheel builds up the least amount of heat and apploes the lowest psi on the blade will deform the least. Do saws with sheaves apply as much tension as band wheels? And is there a noticeable difference in blade life on a new band and a re-sharpened band?  I'm too impatient to sharpen bands, so ill likely just send ro cooks and hope the roll them.

mason44

Some parts I ordered came in wrong so I havent been able to do much. I did get the back of the mower/ engine cut off and separated the mower harness and engine harness, so now I can just bolt down engine and controller and it will be running. I also mounted the ohio gear box for the carriage travel. I plan on direct driving the urethane vgroove wheels, not sure if it will work or not. I see some folks pushing their carriage, and Im almost certain these will put down more torque than my size 11's.

 

mason44

 

  

  If all goes well travel speed will be 0-70 fpm

mason44

And anyone have any thoughts on these guides? I plan on doubling horizontal bearings for added blade width, but dont want to waste my time installing if conventiinal wisdom says ill be wasting my time

 

Ox

Those guides are a tried and true design and will work.  Most mills today use the single, rear flanged guides that require around 1/4" down pressure to work.  The ones you're showing will work, just make sure you add in adjustments in all axes (plural of axis???) when you build so you can fine tune them.  If these are what you have on hand, I say use them.  If you have a choice between this style or the single, flanged guides I'd say go for the singles.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

DMcCoy

I built my guides with doubled bearings on top and a single at the back.  It would be helpful when changing blades for a lower bearing to hold the blade but it really is not necessary, a small block of UHMW would also work, but I haven't bothered with that either.  If you mount the back bearing slightly offset you can flip them when the inevitable wear groove starts to appear.
Having the blade sandwiched on the dust side of the log might pack both sides of the blade when sawing pitchy logs.  Don't know this for fact but it seems likely.  Also if you get any stringy stuff coming off, and you will, it could jam, where a single upper bearing would allow it to pass.
If I were to do anything to mine I would make the top bearings grease-able.
Hope this helps, my 2 cents.


pineywoods

It's been my experience that greaseable bearings on blade guides don't work very well. When you pump in grease, the old grease will blow the seals, blade lube and sawdust will take out the bearing. The real problem is rpm. A 2 inch roller pressing against a blade traveling 4500 fpm will turn somewhere in the neighbohood of 20,000 rpm, way too much for run-of-the mill grease. At that speed, most of the grease will sling out before you get halfway down the first log. Go with sealed high speed bearings.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

mason44


mason44


mason44

A few more photos are in my gallery 

 

mason44

Andwhees for anyone curious. This is the lighter one/idler, made by baldor

 

beenthere

Please make some written comments about what we should be seeing in your pics. Otherwise, for some of us, they are just "pics".  ;)  And pics in your gallery are to also be in your posts... rules of the game as I understand. tks
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

mason44

Quote from: beenthere on June 18, 2015, 10:28:09 PM
Please make some written comments about what we should be seeing in your pics. Otherwise, for some of us, they are just "pics".  ;)  And pics in your gallery are to also be in your posts... rules of the game as I understand. tks

They actually are just "pics" . More of a log of my build to give others ideas or to make suggestions to myself if they see something that doesnt work. If you have any questions I will gladly answer. Is it better to delete extra photos or delete the close ups?

Ox

You mentioned "don't laugh".  I don't see anything to laugh at, bud!  Looks stout and you're making progress.  Takes longer than you imagined, doesn't it?   :D
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

mason44

Quote from: Ox on June 18, 2015, 11:11:21 PM
You mentioned "don't laugh".  I don't see anything to laugh at, bud!  Looks stout and you're making progress.  Takes longer than you imagined, doesn't it?   :D
I was enterertained byvthe fact i chooed the back of a mower of and set it on my mill, and had a smile on my gace the entire time  ;D. I' m just working on it by myself after hpurs mostly, I only have around 35 hours shop time in it so far, but a lot of staring and head scratching on top of that. I pulled wiring and control panel for the engine from mower so all i have to so is connect fuel line and it will be running. Im just hoping it will make a round log square at this point

Magicman

Quote from: mason44 on June 18, 2015, 10:49:49 PMIs it better to delete extra photos or delete the close ups?
Delete any pictures in your Gallery that are not posted.  Do not ever delete a picture that has been posted on the forum.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

5quarter

You're build is going great. I'm searching in your photos for the "scrap metal".  :D  ;)

You're right on regarding how metal deforms. In the case of bandsaw blades, it is 99% pressure, with heat coming into play only if something else is wrong. Blades will deform (cup away) from a crowned wheel, belted or steel, it doesn't matter. The more tension you run will determine the amount of cupping. We talk about flat blades, but a New blade should never be perfectly flat. It should cup ever so slightly in some conformity with the crown. This way the blade contacts the guide at two points; at the back of the blade and the end of the roller and is able to most effectively obtain and keep control of the band. when the band begins cupping away from the crown of the wheels, the result is that the roller contacts the band at only one point in the center of the blade body, which results in some loss of control. If you're not pushing the limits of your saw that much, you may not notice a difference. The trouble comes at the higher feed rates and wider cuts. Cooks rolls my blades when I send them out and they always come back as good or better than new. Can't say if its because of rolling the bands or not, But they don't charge any extra for the privilege.  8) 8) 
   I'm really enjoying watching your progress and am anxious to see your mill cutting wood. best of luck.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

mason44

I appreciate your feedback, amd thanks for answering the question on cooks band rolling, thats who I plan on buying/ servicing my blades

Ox

FWIW, I'm using some Cook's Supersharp Silvachrome blades right now.  I love them.  They cut very nice and smooth with minimal tooth marks.  They do leave some extra sawdust on the boards but I expect that to go away some as I sharpen and take some set away.  Currently milling black cherry and they work great!

I chose the Silvachrome because I want maximum blade life.  These are supposed to have the best flex life out of the different blades they use.  I'm also not in production or pushing my mill to its limits or anything.  These blades are a good fit for smaller or manual mills.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

mason44

Control panel mocked up. I had to reroute the harness, from the front. Im using the fuel tanks from mower so I should still have a fuel gauge

 

Ga Mtn Man

I like it.  This is going to be a very cool sawmill. :)
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

mason44



I haven't had much time to work on mill this summer, they are my busy months, but with the rain back I got a few hours work done on it. The screw Jacks are up amd working, raises and lowers nice and solid. Also fabled up the mounts for the blade guides. 

 



 



 

mason44

 

  Also got air tensioner installed and working. Hopefully it creates enough pressure for proper tension. I also put mounts for hydraulic tensioner if I need

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