Billing Questions

[homesteader1972]

Hello All,

Forgive me for asking what may sound like a dumb question, but was wondering how you all charge for lumber you mill for a customer (their logs).

Do you round down everything in length? If it 10'10", do you bill it as 10', or, round up, or use the actual inch measurement?

When you mill dimensional lumber, do you bill it as a 2" x 4", or 1.5" x 3.5".

I normally round down, and only charge the actual size I cut (1.5 x 3.5), but was  wondering if there is an "industry standard" here.

Thanks much.

[WDH]

I do not do much custom sawing, but I charge actual dimensions.   

[Peter Drouin]

All the wood I cut is full size, so I charge full price. :D

[red oaks lumber]

the length i round down to the next foot, lumber is scaled on actual size. i can't charge for air

[WV Sawmiller]

HS72,

   I advise up to 6" is rounded down (realistically I'm not going to push that too close) and over gets rounded up. If 9'10 or 11'11" I'd probably count as 10 & 12' respectively. So far I have only cut rough lumber but would think I'd advise and bill dimensional lumber at same rate (as 2X4 or 1X12, etc) since it takes the same amount of effort to cut it. I do tell customers if under 1" is billed as 1" (I sold some poplar a while back and the guy specified 3/4"X6"X16' so billed as 1X6's) or by hourly rate, whichever we agree to at the time before cutting.

   I think as long as you are clear up front with your customer everything is cool. I always throw in a little extra, either lumber, side cuts, useable miscuts, or hours at the end of the job to be sure the customer is satisfied.

[Magicman]

Communication is the key as WV Sawmiller just stated.

Concerning the actual vs dimensional bit, I am selling a sawing service, not lumber.

[Joe Hillmann]

Those are all good questions.  I can't really answer any of them because I just saw for myself but I would say if they want anything less than 1 inch thick you should charge as if it was one inch otherwise you can be doing twice as much cutting for the same pay if they wanted 1/2 inch boards.  For length I would probably round down to the nearest foot but anything less than 8 feet I would charge as 8 feet.  Most importantly I would make sure you and your customer have an agreement on how you will charge before you make a single cut.  That way if they feel your terms are unfair you can come to an agreement or leave.

[Ga Mtn Man]

I round to the nearest half-foot for the length and calculate the board-footage on the actual dimensions of the lumber (except for thicknesses less than 1").  This is not the standard way of doing it for the lumber industry but I find it to be the fairest way of doing it for my customers and myself.  I always let my customers know how I figure the bd-ft ahead of time. 

[AnthonyW]

To mimic what MagicMan said, if you are selling a sawing service, they pay for the service provided. If you are selling lumber there is a scaling specification defining a board foot. Someone can provide the details from the top of their head. I would have to look it up. I know enough to remember to be careful when purchasing hardwood shorts at the yard. The rules allow them to round up (ie., 4/4 poplar board 6" wide 3' long is measured as 2 bdft).

[red oaks lumber]

a sawing service that charges by the b.f. better be scaling by the board foot  if your charging by the hour thats fine. if you sell logs and you have a 1000 b.f. are you going to let them only pay you for 750 ? or if your buying logs and it's only 750 b.f. will you let them charge you for a 1000 b.f. no and no ,so why should sawing a 1.5.x3.5. still be tallied at a full 2x 4? also how can a log that is not at the next full ft. increment be scaled that way?
sorry,these are things that just don't sit right with me

[drobertson]

Price by the piece part, if it works for the customer, then all is good. 

[scsmith42]

I bill based upon actual board footage. The only rounding I will do is a fraction of an inch.  Anything less than an inch is scaled as an inch.  Quartersawing and slabbing cost more than flat sawing.

[Ribsy]

Then why is it appropriate for us to pay the big box stores for a 2x4 that measures 1 5/8 x 3 1/2?

[WDH]

Just calling it a 2x4 does not make it one.

[4x4American]

I ran into that before.  I was sawing out 16' 6x6 and 10x10 timbers by the bdft, and the customer asked me to saw them at 5.5x5.5 and 9.5 x 9.5 so they'd fit in the brackets he had in his sonotubes.  I scaled and charged for the actual size I sawed out, and it ended up making a big difference in the end.  Instead of a 6x6x16 costing him $14.40 it costed $12.10 per piece.  Most of his 16' logs were bucked to 17'+ though, and I only charged for 16' which thinking back now, I shouldn't have!

[Peter Drouin]

Most all the logs I buy have 6" trim on them , I don't charge for that, 8'6" is 8'

[Magicman]

Exactly.  That "wiggle room" helps with all lengths.

[Nomad]

Exactly.  That "wiggle room" helps with all lengths.

     I agree within reason, and always round down.  But if somebody wants me to cut a hundred or so logs that are 17'8" into 1x I'll be reluctant to scale 'em down to 16'.

[red oaks lumber]

if the log is measuring over the next foot increment by all means charge for it .

[Magicman]

Yup, 6" is wiggle room.  Much more than that, and I have the customer with the chainsaw doing some trimming.  I like clean log ends.

Nomad's 17' 8" might go for a 17', but certainly not a 16'.

[sandsawmill14]

im sawing commercial so their rule tell you how its figured lumber is on the 1/4 scale 4/4  5/4 6/4 8/4 everything is + 1/8. length is to the nearest even ft unless it is a special order 8' logs HAVE to be 8'8 or they will cull the 7x9 rr ties. all lumber is 8 10 12 14 16 ft long it doesnt matter if you cut it off or they do but if it 11'3 its cut back to 10' lumber. pallet cants and lumber pay the same way but they will accept shorter lengths there is a pocket book that has it all figured thinks its called lumbermans time saver you just look up the size by thickness (by 1/4)  length width and number of pieces and the math is already done it will tell you as an example 43 1x12x12 has 516bdft  i will look tomorrow to make sure of the name.  almost all mill supply companies give them for free with their name on them for advertising but  you have to ask

[woodyone.john]

My sawing business is sawing.As most of what I now saw are small lots I charge by the hour.I consider I am offering an incentive for them to provide necessary labor if they want their timber filleted,to have their logs well made and placed for loading and sawing. This is all discussed and agreed to prior to arrival.I can and do provide extra labor [at cost] if required.Those who choose[for what ever reason]to allow me to do the trimming ,collating etc pay because I value my time. You may choose to do favors for your client and for some I do,but the choice is mine.I take a professional approach to sawing,I arrive when I say,arrive with the mill tuned up and with plenty of sharp blades and get straight to work when I arrive. Go and talk to your lawyer,doctor dentist surveyor etc. they charge for their time and I certainly get organised before I go visit or talk to them.Value your business,be professional,and expect to be commensurately recompensed. cheers john