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Stihl MS 241c-m or MS 261c-m ?

Started by Troymichael, June 01, 2015, 01:15:37 PM

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HolmenTree

Stump grinder leaves lots of fill and no stump an ripped out roots to haul away.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

JohnG28

Is the ground stump good as fill in a yard? I had thought that it would be better pulled out and topsoil filled over?
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

dirtmover1250

Quote from: JohnG28 on June 16, 2015, 11:26:05 PM
Is the ground stump good as fill in a yard? I had thought that it would be better pulled out and topsoil filled over?


the mulch will eventually turn into topsoil, especially if you keep stirring it up periodically.

its kind of a tricky situation, you can either dig some of that mulch out so by the time you fill it in with topsoil it will be level, but in 10 or 15yrs you will have a settling problem, and will have to deal with adding more dirt. or you could just cap it off with dirt and forget about it for a while, and it may settle down flat.
Stihl MS180C, 16" bar
Stihl MS362CM, 20" bar

beenthere

Not real good as fill, as it will eventually decay and lose some of its volume. Will leave a depression eventually that will need some fill to level the yard off again.
After a few years of rotting (the number of years will depend on the species and how resistant to decay that wood might be), the bulk of the stump will roll out easily. Roots are thin and decay more quickly.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

lamimartin

Quote from: Dixon700 on June 16, 2015, 03:11:23 AM
Backhoe for stump removal. That was my choice, but then you'd need a bunch of fill...
For stumps over a foot diameter, a backoe may not be strong enough. It may work, but it will take a very long time on big stumps because the operator must work to avoid expensive machinery damages. Pulling strenght of a backoe is not the same as a full scale excavator. Considering the risk of damages and very long time required on big stumps, this option can rapidly turn to be far more expensive than a stump grinder. The main risk with a stump grinder is to hit big rocks that may break the carbide teeth. Otherwise, stump grinder operating cost and time required is predictible, as opposed to use machinery that was not designed for that purpose (chainsaw, backoe).
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

JohnG28

That's what I was thinking in regards decaying and sinking. In my case the trees needing to go are pine and spruce also, so more acidic in the soil which wouldn't help.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

HolmenTree

Quote from: JohnG28 on June 16, 2015, 11:26:05 PM
Is the ground stump good as fill in a yard? I had thought that it would be better pulled out and topsoil filled over?
I thought we were talking about stump removal in the forest where fill may not be important.
Let me explain for residential  stumps.
The wood fiber of a stump is the densest  part of the tree; when it's  completely  ground up the resulting chips volume is probably  5 times or more greater then the stump size.
These chips I haul away for my customers and the remaining chewed up dirt nd mulch I put back into the hole. 
I always grind out the whole stump so if my customers  decide they can plant a new tree there. Otherwise they will have to top the hole with dirt fill if they want to plant grass seed or turf it over..
Yes tamping is recommended.
The only thing that breaks carbide off my teeth is steel buried in the ground. Rocks like granite only round the sharp edge off and I then just turn the tooth for a sharp edge again.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Dixon700

Quote from: lamimartin on June 17, 2015, 07:05:41 AM
Quote from: Dixon700 on June 16, 2015, 03:11:23 AM
Backhoe for stump removal. That was my choice, but then you'd need a bunch of fill...
For stumps over a foot diameter, a backoe may not be strong enough. It may work, but it will take a very long time on big stumps because the operator must work to avoid expensive machinery damages. Pulling strenght of a backoe is not the same as a full scale excavator. Considering the risk of damages and very long time required on big stumps, this option can rapidly turn to be far more expensive than a stump grinder. The main risk with a stump grinder is to hit big rocks that may break the carbide teeth. Otherwise, stump grinder operating cost and time required is predictible, as opposed to use machinery that was not designed for that purpose (chainsaw, backoe).
my 580sk is quite the digger. It's over 13k lbs of force from the back hoe. I've dug up a few stumps  around 3' diameter. I need to build a thumb to put on my dipper though.  It is a good sized backhoe though.
Ms 460 mag 25" b/c muffler modded 010av  14" b/c
94 case 580sk 04.5 ram 2500

HolmenTree

A good hoe operator  can do a nice job removing  a good sized stump if he's  able to cut all the anchor roots around a stump without disturbing too much ground.
But that envolves moving the machine  around the perimeter  of the stump in most cases . Doing that can destroy a lawn in someone's yard pretty quick.....same goes  just ripping the stump out and pulling all its roots from all over the yard with it.

I've  seen it all  in my biz, but in the end the stump grinder does it the best.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

dirtmover1250

here is a pic to give an idea how big a root ball can be. here is one i ripped out with an excavator that i managed to get a pic of. yours truly at the controls. the trick is to dig around the root ball, not try to rip it out with minimal excavation. that is where your average guy messes up and breaks things. you can do it with a backhoe, but you're really going to have to open one up. then depending on the size of the root ball, the backhoe may or may not lift it, but it will atleast budge it. you might be able to roll it out.

this was the summer of 2009, clearing trees for a construction project. if the timber that was not marketable, i'd just dig on the root ball in the direction of felling and knock the trees down hole. some of the stumps i got to take out as well. this is with a komatsu 400 (40 ton) excavator. on this job we had a sycamore that was so big, i'd say the tree was 3 or 4' in diameter, and the root ball was every bit of 10' across. It took this excavator and a cat D6, on each side of the root ball (60 tons of machinery) to move this tree whole, into a stockpile. the 40 ton hoe would not budge the sycamore at all.

Stihl MS180C, 16" bar
Stihl MS362CM, 20" bar

Dixon700

Ya, when I had the small tractor with a hoe on it. I had a huge crater in my back yard for a stump. The hole was bigger than my above ground pool. Huge mess. Then broke the tractor trying to extract the stump from the hole.  Now with the 580sk I found taking trees down whole is way easier than digging stumps. I've shove over trees as big as 3' across 80+ feet tall with minimal ground tore up.  Now pines under 15" are easy either way. Im Clearing out and leveling some land and it's mostly tall thinner pine trees. A bunch will just get cut close and covered up. I'm burying most of the trees. I have no use for the pine and my grandpa has an indoor Woodstock so no pine in that. Some of the big pines that I'm felling  there's a few around 3' or so diameter that a Co worker may have milled down to boards.
Ms 460 mag 25" b/c muffler modded 010av  14" b/c
94 case 580sk 04.5 ram 2500

JohnG28

Thanks for the info HT. That's more along hat I was thinking. I also have some roots snaking up and down in parts of the yard so grinding definitely makes sense. Just have to finish sheet rocking the living room and putting in the new floors, then I get to play outside!  :D
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

gaproperty

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 04, 2015, 12:41:29 AM
Domino  falling is a disaster for the inexperienced.
First thing you have to do is to see what direction  the "natural lean" or "common lean " of your stand of timber is.
In my area our tree's natural lean is south east. So the first tree I would fell is in the south east corner of my woodlot. I would cut a straight "face" or a cut line along the south boundary east to west cutting and piling my logs or stove length as I go.
Keep working your stand of timber north ward cutting swaths and piling as your work east to west , west to east.
Limbs and tops cut and left where their  laid , only clear them off your piles as you go.

But to clarify,  as your cutting and piling on a "face" east to west, west to east as you work northward  your trees are felled at 45° pointing south east into your cut over or clearing along your  face line.
so what about vibration. Is the 261 smooth and vibration free?
Ray
lostcaper.com
youtube.com/c/LostCaper

snowstorm


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