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Stihl MS 241c-m or MS 261c-m ?

Started by Troymichael, June 01, 2015, 01:15:37 PM

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Troymichael

Hello, this is my first post, I am looking forward to learning alot from this forum.

I need help deciding which chainsaw to buy. I have decided on Stihl because there is a dealer near me that I like.

Here is what I have: 13 acres of it. Right now I am way too close to the road. I would like to clear out 1-5 acres somewhere in the middle of the 13 acres I own.


Here is where I would like to start clearing a road / trail. at first at least wide enough for some ATV's to fit through. Then eventually my Truck, then later I would like to move my camper back there.



So far I own a Stihl MS-171 homeowners saw , here's what I cut so far :


I think I ran that saws brains out. I think I could really use something with more power .

I am leaning towards the MS-241 pro saw which is 9.9 lbs and 3.1 Bhp or the MS-261 at 11.6 lbs and 3.9 Bhp

The price isn't much different $549 vs $599

I am leaning toward the lighter saw, as my largest trees are not that big .. seems most are less than the 16" bar that I'm using now on the MS-171


Thoughts ? or should I be looking at a different chainsaw than the two mentioned ? Thanks !

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Sounds like you have a pretty good idea what you want, and in the price range you want.
I wouldn't suggest anything different.
  Having a good dealer is important, and listening to his/her recommendations is also a good idea. If they suggest something and you don't like it, then it is kind of on their back to make it better for you so to get what you like.

I have the MS362 with 20" bar that I like, and it works very well like my previous MS361 did for a dozen years. So far like the mtronic feature, and hope that "like" continues.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

HolmenTree

I'd  take the MS 241CM  with Picco 63PS chisel  b /c  setup. Don't  get the 63 PS3 chisel  chain if you can help it. Be warned  though the 63PS  is a yellow chain without the extra safety  links the 63 PS3 has.
But you'll  have a green E bar so kickback  energy is reduced  anyways.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Troymichael

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 01, 2015, 02:16:26 PM
I'd  take the MS 241CM  with Picco 63PS chisel  b /c  setup. Don't  get the 63 PS3 chisel  chain if you can help it. Be warned  though the 63PS  is a yellow chain without the extra safety  links the 63 PS3 has.
But you'll  have a green E bar so kickback  energy is reduced  anyways.

That brings up a very good point. I am by no means an expert at cutting trees down. I would consider myself a beginner as far as chainsaws go, this is my first year with using a chainsaw.


With that said, should I stick to a homeowner saw with a green bar, and a green chain, for the sake of safety ?

I have never had a chainsaw kickback at me, and I'm now wondering what it would be like, if I'm not paying attention, it can kick back into my face correct ?

interesting .... I forgot all about the pro saws not having all the anti kickback safety features. ...

JohnG28

They have the same inertia activated chain brakes, at least all modern saws do. There is a difference in the chain links and differences I'm the bars, but the same forces apply regardless. Slightly less in the one case but not enough that one should have a false sense of security. For the little cost difference I'd go with the 261, more saw is usually helpful. A light saw is nice but sounds like you already have one.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

HolmenTree

Quote from: Troymichael on June 01, 2015, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: HolmenTree on June 01, 2015, 02:16:26 PM
I'd  take the MS 241CM  with Picco 63PS chisel  b /c  setup. Don't  get the 63 PS3 chisel  chain if you can help it. Be warned  though the 63PS  is a yellow chain without the extra safety  links the 63 PS3 has.
But you'll  have a green E bar so kickback  energy is reduced  anyways.

That brings up a very good point. I am by no means an expert at cutting trees down. I would consider myself a beginner as far as chainsaws go, this is my first year with using a chainsaw.


With that said, should I stick to a homeowner saw with a green bar, and a green chain, for the sake of safety ?

I have never had a chainsaw kickback at me, and I'm now wondering what it would be like, if I'm not paying attention, it can kick back into my face correct ?

interesting .... I forgot all about the pro saws not having all the anti kickback safety features. ...
Well I just said be warned just to keep things straight.
The 63PS /63PS3 Picco chain whether you take the #3 safety link model or not are safe low kick chains.
The Picco 3/8 chain is actually  a 1/4" cutter bit chain stretched  out to 3/8 pitch. This design with its  long low cutter produces very low kickback energy  that's  why it was designed for the consumer market.

But recently Stihl introduced the 36 year old Picco semi chisel chain with a chisel  cutter bit and now potential  for increased kickback energy  is there. I like the 63PS chain better then the PS3 safety linked chain because it cuts a little faster.
So realizing  you don't  have that much  experience  I suggest go with the 63PS3.  Even with this chain the MS241CM  will cut faster and easier to file then the 23RSC .325 chisel chain.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Troymichael

Hey guys ,

I tried uploading pictures for about an hour, and I couldn't get it to work, not sure about why ?

anyways, I'm going to get the MS-241, as it's a nice and light saw, with over twice the power as my MS-171

I will keep my homeowner 171 for limbing, and as a backup, and use the 241 as my main saw, if I could get pics of my land to show up, all the trees are fairly small, not sure any require larger than a 16" blade, and if they do, they are so far and few between, I can go around them, as they would be above my skill level anyway

now, I want to start clearing in the middle of my land, and the problem I"m having is the trees are so close together they will just fall onto each other and get hung up ,, ,

can anyone give me any pointers or tips on how to go about this ?

so far I am thinking, once the first tree gets hung up, I will fall another tree to land on the first tree, and so on, and eventually I will have 5 or so trees all pushing onto each other, and eventually they will all fall down ?

Troymichael

--Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/albums/ss211/TroyMichael_2009/Askov%202015/DSC_0054_zpsnnm2saha.jpg

HolmenTree

Domino  falling is a disaster for the inexperienced.
First thing you have to do is to see what direction  the "natural lean" or "common lean " of your stand of timber is.
In my area our tree's natural lean is south east. So the first tree I would fell is in the south east corner of my woodlot. I would cut a straight "face" or a cut line along the south boundary east to west cutting and piling my logs or stove length as I go.
Keep working your stand of timber north ward cutting swaths and piling as your work east to west , west to east.
Limbs and tops cut and left where their  laid , only clear them off your piles as you go.

But to clarify,  as your cutting and piling on a "face" east to west, west to east as you work northward  your trees are felled at 45° pointing south east into your cut over or clearing along your  face line.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Hope  I didn't  make that too complicated :D but trust me it's  good advice.
I have a hunch your trees common lean are south east too if your ground is  fairly level consistently........and your able to "read the lean ."
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

CTYank

Two items of potential interest:
1. Stihl publishes power figures that are often fabrications. Best not put too much trust in them.
2. For untangling stems that hung on the way down, you can get a lot done with a cable winch. Either just pull on the butt and slide it out from under if it won't plow a furrow, or "fold" the stem by making another face/backcut combo maybe 4-5 feet up, with the face cut away from the direction you'll pull on that area with the winch. Use the winch to "pop" it, with everyone out of harm's way.

Once you make an opening, things loosen up a lot. As mentioned, don't just pile up lots of big sticks. Buck them, and maybe move them out of the way, before continuing felling.

Wedges are always welcome.  8)
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

SawTroll

The obvious answer to the dilemma is 550xp (or 346xp if you can still find one)!
Information collector.

JohnG28

Quote from: SawTroll on June 04, 2015, 10:29:32 AM
The obvious answer to the dilemma is 550xp (or 346xp if you can still find one)!

They're not made by Stihl, which is specified in the op.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Troymichael

Quote from: JohnG28 on June 04, 2015, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: SawTroll on June 04, 2015, 10:29:32 AM
The obvious answer to the dilemma is 550xp (or 346xp if you can still find one)!

They're not made by Stihl, which is specified in the op.

Correct, there is a Stihl dealer near my house, but not anyone else, that I am aware, and my Stihl dealer seems very nice and helpfull.

I had alot of trouble with chainsaws in the past, the Home Depot and Menards Saws, once they had problems, I had a hard time getting help and getting them running again.

That is the main reason I am choosing Stihl, as if I buy a $600 saw, and need help with it, at least if I can't figure it out on my own, I can bring it in if it comes to that .

JohnG28

While I can't speak to any of the cm saws from personal experience there are many reputable guys out there running them and I have yet to hear of anyone having problems. I can say that Stihl's pro saws are great, I have 3 of them. When I need one they start and run whenever called upon. I'm sure you'll be happy with the new saw.  :)
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

lamimartin

Quote from: Troymichael on June 01, 2015, 01:15:37 PM
Here is what I have: 13 acres of it. Right now I am way too close to the road. I would like to clear out 1-5 acres somewhere in the middle of the 13 acres I own.
(...)
So far I own a Stihl MS-171 homeowners saw , here's what I cut so far :
(..._)
I think I ran that saws brains out. I think I could really use something with more power .
I am leaning towards the MS-241 pro saw which is 9.9 lbs and 3.1 Bhp or the MS-261 at 11.6 lbs and 3.9 Bhp
The price isn't much different $549 vs $599
I am leaning toward the lighter saw, as my largest trees are not that big .. seems most are less than the 16" bar that I'm using now on the MS-171

Let's say MS-171 is made for light duty and should only be used for pruning and backup saw (that's what I use it for only)
The components of this saw will quit within a few days of continuous work, as opposed to 241 or 261.
If you plan to clear a few acres, you need as much power as possible in a relatively light package.

There is hardly any extra weight difference between the 241 et 261, but you won't regret the extra power (43 vs 50cc) especially if you are harvesting hardwood. It is smart to keep the bar at 16" in order to minimize weight. You are talking of a large volume of threes, you won't regret the extra power. If you ever need a longer bar, the 241 will really be limited to 18". The very fact it only has ONE nut holding the bar instead of two would make me think twice about that saw.

I own a MS-171, a MS-261 with 16" bar and a MS-660 Magnum (92cc) with 20, 24 and 36" bars, because I often have to fall threes in the 24" diameter range. I also own a Logosol M8 portable sawmill that requires the MS-660, but beleive me, the extra 5 pounds are rather exhausting compared to the MS-261 which is ideally suited to be used all day long. It is easy to maintain and very rugged. MS-261 is designed for a blade up to 20" (as opposed to MS241 limited to 18") which may be convenient for safety if 16" is not enough.

One thing I appreciate very much with the MS261 is to use it with a carbide tipped chain (Stihl Picco DURO) which can be sharpened with easy to find diamond dust bits on a Dremel. If you sharpen it yourself, the cost difference is minimal, considering extra safety and time saved. Rather than changing and sharpening chains, you keep on sawing, on and on, producing tons of little square chips (what a sharp blade produces). It is a bit slower at first  compared to a standard blade, but it does remains sharp so much longer! It has barely any kick back effect and is ideal for trimming dirty logs fallen on the ground.

I have not tried the 241, but I have tried 42cc saws and I can tell you there is a clear difference when you load the saw at full bar capacity and have 20% more power. I would not hesitate to recommend the extra pound for 20% more power: MS261 is a great saw for falling tons of small to medium threes. Lighter saws are for climbing on threes for pruning, not great for falling and cutting a large volume of firewood.
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

SawTroll

Quote from: JohnG28 on June 04, 2015, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: SawTroll on June 04, 2015, 10:29:32 AM
The obvious answer to the dilemma is 550xp (or 346xp if you can still find one)!

They're not made by Stihl, which is specified in the op.

I know, but it still is the only sensible choise.... :)
Information collector.

HolmenTree

From what Troymichael mentioned his timber is small and thickly grown together. Sounds like a spruce or pine stand...am I correct?
I think for a beginner  the MS241CM is the best choice with a 16" b/c. Very versatile  saw for pulpwood  and small thick timber. This saw can do all your felling, limbing and bucking. Just keep the 171 on site to cut the 241 out of a tree if you should  get it pinched.

I was at the Stihl dealer  today and compared the 241 and 261 . The 261 is way more bulky and the extra almost 2 lbs would tire out a beginner much quicker.
Remember  accidents and poor judgement happen much easier with fatigue.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

lamimartin

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 05, 2015, 10:09:57 PM
From what Troymichael mentioned his timber is small and thickly grown together. Sounds like a spruce or pine stand...am I correct?
I think for a beginner  the MS241CM is the best choice with a 16" b/c. Very versatile  saw for pulpwood  and small thick timber. This saw can do all your felling, limbing and bucking. Just keep the 171 on site to cut the 241 out of a tree if you should  get it pinched.

I was at the Stihl dealer  today and compared the 241 and 261 . The 261 is way more bulky and the extra almost 2 lbs would tire out a beginner much quicker.
Remember  accidents and poor judgement happen much easier with fatigue.
Good advise: The lighter the better, as long as he can do with a 16"bar/c. If not, he should get a 261. Falling and limbing small diameter wood is very hard work the 241 is ideal for.  I can work all day long with my MS261 and a 16" bar, which I can't with my bigger saw, but nothing replaces a powerful saw in hardwood or frozen wood bigger than 16".
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

Troymichael

Alright, I think I finally got the pictures to work ..

So the first pic shows pretty much what all the trees look like size wise, does everyone think 16" saw will be enough for these ?

The last two pictures showed what I cut with the Stihl MS 171 two weeks ago, took me a good 6 hours of cutting



  

  

 

Troymichael

I think this shows the size of the trees much better, as you have stuff to compare them too.




 

HolmenTree

Yup 16" is plenty enough for that stand.
You got a little bit of birch and what looks  like mostly maple or ash.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

missedbass

I would go with the 261c since you already have a 171. why limit yourself.
Stihl ms271
Fiskars x27

HolmenTree

Quote from: missedbass on June 08, 2015, 05:51:19 PM
I would go with the 261c since you already have a 171. why limit yourself.
The 171 is not a good backup saw for what he's doing . It won't  take the steady cutting day in out.
Good enough to cut the main saw out of a tree or log if it got pinched or a quick backup if the main saw rocks out it's  chain.
The MS241CM  with Picco chisel chain  will out produce a MS261 in that small timber.
Also perfectly  suited for a newbie  with limited physical  and skill capabilities.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

dirtmover1250

i dont understand what you guys mean by a 171 not taking the daily cutting day in and day out. why not?

i own a 180C, would it stand up to that? i have yet to run mine a full day, but i have used it every day for a week about 3hrs at a time. never had any problems.
Stihl MS180C, 16" bar
Stihl MS362CM, 20" bar

lamimartin

Quote from: dirtmover1250 on June 09, 2015, 01:40:57 AM
i dont understand what you guys mean by a 171 not taking the daily cutting day in and day out. why not?

i own a 180C, would it stand up to that? i have yet to run mine a full day, but i have used it every day for a week about 3hrs at a time. never had any problems.
Components of a light duty saw like 171 or 180 are made for occasional pruning and falling a few trees in a day at most. Medium duty saws are designed for larger production volume for week end and cottage. Professional duty like 241 and 261 are made to withstand constant use all day long day after day, with minimal maintenance.  If a light duty saw is operated as a pro saw, it will fail pretty quickly, causing downtime and cost a fortune of repairs compared to a pro saw.

1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

lamimartin

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 08, 2015, 07:25:54 PM
Quote from: missedbass on June 08, 2015, 05:51:19 PM
I would go with the 261c since you already have a 171. why limit yourself.
The 171 is not a good backup saw for what he's doing . It won't  take the steady cutting day in out.
Good enough to cut the main saw out of a tree or log if it got pinched or a quick backup if the main saw rocks out it's  chain.
The MS241CM  with Picco chisel chain  will out produce a MS261 in that small timber.
Also perfectly  suited for a newbie  with limited physical  and skill capabilities.
True, thinner chain is faster, but I found out it is not as rugged. I prefer reliability over speed. A thin chain is easier to damage limbing a three for someone who is a beginner.
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

HolmenTree

True Picco 63 may not be as strong a chassis then a .325 but I never broke a loop yet.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Troymichael

Lots of decisions to make .. I apreciate all the input from everyone , thank you ..

The rational at the time of buying the MS-171 was it comes with a 2 year warranty, if I run it 8 hrs a day on the weekends, and it rools over on me, I am betting on the warranty covering it. If the warranty is denied, that's another thing to deal with all together


I really want to get the MS-241, like others have said, my trees aren't all that big, and the large ones I will be going around anyway, as I have no problem admitting that is above my skill level.

I noticed my picco chains going dull VERY fast when cutting the dirty stumps, with that said, what other chains can I put on a MS 241-cm ?  and does it need a different bar for that ?

If I can get a chain that stands up to dirt better, for cutting dirty stumps with moss /dirt on them, than I think I am sold, and will order one today ...


pwheel

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 09, 2015, 08:09:24 AM
True Picco 63 may not be as strong a chassis then a .325 but I never broke a loop yet.
Agree. Cutters and depth gauges get sharpened down to nothing; that's about it. No different than .325 or .375 pitch. No way you'll damage Picco 63 from cutting wood.

BTW, all chains get dull from cutting dirty stumps; semi-chisel will stay sharper longer compared to full-chisel.
Stihl MS260 Pro, MS261, MS440 x2, MS460, FS90; 1982 Power King 1614

beenthere

Troy
Don't think a warranty will cover wear.  just sayin... Failure of parts will likely be covered, and I've found that Stihl has been good with that the one or two times I've needed it. One on a 11 yr old MS361.

And as said, chainsaws are for cutting wood... not dirt be it a stump or sticking the bar in the ground. ;)  :) 
Little to nothing to do with the chain or the bar. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Troymichael

Alright, well i called my dealer and ordered a MS 241-CM.

$529 with 16" bar, i can pick it up friday ! Going up to the land saturday !

4x4American

I'm in the 261 camp also. 


I have a Junk-qvarna 346xp NE and I don't see what is so great about it.


Kickback happens, but most times if you are prepared and not running the saw WOT when it is not needed, you can handle it.  Keep your face out of the line of kickback fire.  It is harder to see what you're cutting, and get things perfect, but you only get one face.  And you're cutting with a powersaw, it don't have to be perfect.  Always keep your thumb wrapped around the handlebar.  If you're walking around and the saw is running, it is a good idea to make sure the chainbrake is on.  Before you start cutting, there are five things to check on your powersaw.  Make sure your chaincatcher is in place, look for any loose nuts/bolts, make sure the chain brake works...and well I forgot the other two! 


The 241 is still better than an ax and misery whip so you're light years ahead of the game in that respect.  If you decide to upgrade, a Stihl will hold it's value for a long time granted you keep it in good condition.
Boy, back in my day..

beenthere

4x4
QuoteKickback happens, but most times if you are prepared and not running the saw WOT when it is not needed, you can handle it.

Interesting, because I've experienced more "kick" or jerk from a chainsaw when it is NOT running wide open throttle.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

4x4American

Yea but when you get in a situation where your saw kicks back and you are at WOT it is a lot harder to control.  A guy who works for us now has a big scar on his elbow when he had a kickback at WOT.  I am picking up what you're putting down, but it's alot easier to contain a kickback when you're feathering the throttle and not WOT and the poop hits the fan.  Do it how you want that's my 2 cents
Boy, back in my day..

lamimartin

Quote from: Troymichael on June 09, 2015, 09:26:30 AM
Lots of decisions to make .. I apreciate all the input from everyone , thank you ..

The rational at the time of buying the MS-171 was it comes with a 2 year warranty, if I run it 8 hrs a day on the weekends, and it rools over on me, I am betting on the warranty covering it. If the warranty is denied, that's another thing to deal with all together


I really want to get the MS-241, like others have said, my trees aren't all that big, and the large ones I will be going around anyway, as I have no problem admitting that is above my skill level.

I noticed my picco chains going dull VERY fast when cutting the dirty stumps, with that said, what other chains can I put on a MS 241-cm ?  and does it need a different bar for that ?

If I can get a chain that stands up to dirt better, for cutting dirty stumps with moss /dirt on them, than I think I am sold, and will order one today ...
I already suggested the Stihl DURO series (carbide tipped) that is designed to withstand quite a bit more dirt than standard chain. It can be sharpened with a proper diameter diamond sharpening bit with a Dremmel tool as long as you respect angles and bit size. It will outlast a regular chain but won't be cutting as fast.  I use them on a 16" bar with my MS261, but I don't know about MS-241 bars. Check with your Stihl Dealer.  It can also be sharpened by pro shops if you don't want to sharpen it yourself. I can't advise for other brands or carbide chains I have not tried, but for the type of wood you have to cut, it would be worth the extra initial cost.  No matter what you choose, the fastest cutting chains will get dull faster too. Just consider how much downtime you spend on changing chains and sharpening in the equation.  A slightly faster cut is not worth the trouble unless you have very clean logs. Keep in mind that a dull chain is a dangerous chain. The longer your chain remains sharp, the longer and the safer your loggin day. For that reason, It is a good practice to refresh the cut regularly rather than wait until your chain is dull. Personnaly, I swap carb tipped chains that are getting dull and make the sharpening at home. I rarely have to change a carbide tipped chain in a full day of work.
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

Troymichael

Quote from: lamimartin on June 09, 2015, 06:13:45 PM
Quote from: Troymichael on June 09, 2015, 09:26:30 AM
Lots of decisions to make .. I apreciate all the input from everyone , thank you ..

The rational at the time of buying the MS-171 was it comes with a 2 year warranty, if I run it 8 hrs a day on the weekends, and it rools over on me, I am betting on the warranty covering it. If the warranty is denied, that's another thing to deal with all together


I really want to get the MS-241, like others have said, my trees aren't all that big, and the large ones I will be going around anyway, as I have no problem admitting that is above my skill level.

I noticed my picco chains going dull VERY fast when cutting the dirty stumps, with that said, what other chains can I put on a MS 241-cm ?  and does it need a different bar for that ?

If I can get a chain that stands up to dirt better, for cutting dirty stumps with moss /dirt on them, than I think I am sold, and will order one today ...
I already suggested the Stihl DURO series (carbide tipped) that is designed to withstand quite a bit more dirt than standard chain. It can be sharpened with a proper diameter diamond sharpening bit with a Dremmel tool as long as you respect angles and bit size. It will outlast a regular chain but won't be cutting as fast.  I use them on a 16" bar with my MS261, but I don't know about MS-241 bars. Check with your Stihl Dealer.  It can also be sharpened by pro shops if you don't want to sharpen it yourself. I can't advise for other brands or carbide chains I have not tried, but for the type of wood you have to cut, it would be worth the extra initial cost.  No matter what you choose, the fastest cutting chains will get dull faster too. Just consider how much downtime you spend on changing chains and sharpening in the equation.  A slightly faster cut is not worth the trouble unless you have very clean logs. Keep in mind that a dull chain is a dangerous chain. The longer your chain remains sharp, the longer and the safer your loggin day. For that reason, It is a good practice to refresh the cut regularly rather than wait until your chain is dull. Personnaly, I swap carb tipped chains that are getting dull and make the sharpening at home. I rarely have to change a carbide tipped chain in a full day of work.

Thank you. I will see if my stihl dealer has one, otherwise i will order one.

kensfarm

Quote from: Troymichael on June 07, 2015, 11:13:17 AM
The last two pictures showed what I cut with the Stihl MS 171 two weeks ago, took me a good 6 hours of cutting

Take the time to take a training course..  that pile should have only taken a minute or 2 to buck up. 

HolmenTree

Troymicheal probably meant 6 hours for felling, limbing, bucking and throwing  into a pile.
Not fast for most standards but for a green horn he's  doing alright.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

This is for Troymichael a nice little video of the excellent saw you chosen....congratulations.

BTW I was at the local Stihl dealer today and on display was the MS241/ 261performance kit which comprised of 3 - 63PS 16" chain loops and a 7 tooth mini spline Picco rim  sprocket, I think there was a 16" bar inside the package too. All for $99.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zXscYA8tu48
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

lamimartin

"63PSis part of the Stihl Picco Super series. 63PS is a fast cutting chisel chain which work best in clean cutting conditions, where there is limited contact with dirt and other abrasive materials. This chain has no significant kickback reduction features (See warnings below), and is recommended for professional use only."

I understand that a professional is looking for ultimate cutting speed, but our friend Troymichael primary concern is the fact chains gets dull pretty quick in dirty conditions.  No kickback reduction is not recommended for a beginner. I don't think this is the ideal chain for Troymichael.

I would rather consider http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/specialty-saw-chains/pd3/ :
Applications: The PD3 is ideally suited for cutting dirty wood, treated wood, roots, hardwoods – even cement-encrusted formwork boards on jobsites.
This chain is low profile, low kickback and is ideally suited for Troymicheal in my humble opinion.  It may not be the fastest, but it is very fast, hours after hour after hour of reliable and safe operation.

I've experienced Stihl duro carbide tipped chains and I can tell you it is by far my favorite to work on fallen trees that are often contaminated with dirt, even if I try to avoid dirt on wood as much as I can. This is certainly not the least expensive option (what professional are often looking for too) but for a green operator that wants the job done with minimal maintenance and maximal safety margin, this is the best chain.
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

HolmenTree

lamimartin,
As we're  both Canadians we know how ANSI liabilty paranoia is south of the border. Here in Canada Stihl dealers sell professional chain to all woodcutters whether  their pros or green horns.
The Picco chain in itself is a low kickback safety chain whether  its got extra safety ramps or not.
Yes the Picco Duro carbide chain is a tough chain. I used it on my Stihl 066 Alaskan mill ripping treated cedar power poles. But for cutting green wood it's  slow and tough to sharpen.
Seeing  the clean stand of timber Troymicheal has he doesn't  need it. His problem is cutting his stumps too low and cutting  into the dirt when bucking.
The only way he can properly learn to use and maintain  a chainsaw is using a regular chain. Even the carbide chain carelessly cutting into a granite hard rock will destroy it's  sharp edge.
I  guarantee  you in the U.S. he won't  be able to buy the 63PS  chisel Picco us Canadians  enjoy . He'll  get the 63PS3 which is still a very performing chain in 16".
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

To add to my last post I suggest  Troymicheal use the Picco Duro chain to cut his stumps off low after clearing his trees.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

beenthere

HolmenTree said it very well, IMO. The safety chain idea is 99% hype by our Gov't meddlers. It is a bit like putting training wheels on a bicycle for an adult.

Just my opinion but glad to see it shared with others.  ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Troymichael

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 10, 2015, 09:26:18 AM
To add to my last post I suggest  Troymicheal use the Picco Duro chain to cut his stumps off low after clearing his trees.

Alright thanks, so use the ps3 for cutting, then switch to the duro for the dirty stumps. Sounds easy enough.

4x4American

ok now they have you going from top to bottom.  you dont wanna be switching chains all day.  Just get a semi chisel chain.  best of both worlds.  stays sharper longer than chisel chain, and easier to sharpen.  For you, this is the general purpose chain thatll gitter done.  From the picture of the tooth in my stigl catalog, it looks like stihl RM is a semi chisel chain for ya.  Thy have it in .325" not sure what youre setup for.
Boy, back in my day..

HolmenTree

Quote from: 4x4American on June 10, 2015, 05:33:23 PM
ok now they have you going from top to bottom.  you dont wanna be switching chains all day.   
No no.......I was saying at the end of the day or week whatever, after doing your production cutting with the Picco chisel chain , switch over to the Picco Duro carbide chain and cut all your stumps off low.
Best to fell your trees with a 18"-20" inch high stump then later on when that is cut near ground level you have an additional  block of   firewood.



Making a living with a saw since age 16.

4x4American

Ahh icic.  Yea having a carbide chain is good, but who's gonna sharpen it?  It says that you need a diamond grind wheel to sharpen them in the catalog.  I have no experience sharping carbide saw chain so I'm not sure how it goes.  I'm guessing they don't have a special file?
Boy, back in my day..

CR888

The 171 is not a good backup saw for what he's doing . It won't  take the steady cutting day in out.
Good enough to cut the main saw out of a tree or log if it got pinched or a quick backup if the main saw rocks out it's  chain.
The MS241CM  with Picco chisel chain  will out produce a MS261 in that small timber.
Also perfectly  suited for a newbie  with limited physical  and skill capabilities.
[/quote]
Good post and very true. I have a 241cm and ms261 and 550xp. Under the main conditions the op has shown the 241 will out perform the other two in that sized wood. The 241 is so good on fuel it will get more work done than the other two saws and is a perfect saw to learn skills. I would also say that a Stihl light weight bar is worth the few extra Penny's. They really keep those saws light. FWIW l have my 241 set up with .325 and only run semi chisel. Full chisel is not an option for us in Australia, you can buy it if you look hard enough but it dulls far too quick. Carbide IMO has more negatives than positive mainly cost but its tough to sharpen and if you hit a nail or something it becomes a nightmare. Good semi chisel or chipper style cutters work best and make the best sense in my conditions however the op could run PS all day and it make sense in his conditions.

gspren

  This thread has me thinking and that usually costs me some coin but hey that's what it's for. I cut all of my firewood for a lot of years using my 044 with a 20" bar and my old 041 for a back up, about the time I turned 60 I got a 261 for the small stuff. Now I use the 261 for 90% of my cutting and keep a 24" bar on the 044 for rare big stuff and thinking these old shoulders might like the 241. Just thinking. ???
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

beenthere

Also stopped using my old 041 at age 65. Was a great saw for 30 years.
Switched to an MS361 until this year, backed up with an MS250 last year.
Now have the new MS362 which I prefer for most sawing, which is admittedly only about 10 cord annually, give or take.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

missedbass

Quote from: gspren on June 11, 2015, 03:37:41 PM
  This thread has me thinking and that usually costs me some coin but hey that's what it's for. I cut all of my firewood for a lot of years using my 044 with a 20" bar and my old 041 for a back up, about the time I turned 60 I got a 261 for the small stuff. Now I use the 261 for 90% of my cutting and keep a 24" bar on the 044 for rare big stuff and thinking these old shoulders might like the 241. Just thinking. ???
just thinking leads to just spending :laugh:
Stihl ms271
Fiskars x27

lamimartin

Quote from: 4x4American on June 10, 2015, 09:16:32 PM
Ahh icic.  Yea having a carbide chain is good, but who's gonna sharpen it?  It says that you need a diamond grind wheel to sharpen them in the catalog.  I have no experience sharping carbide saw chain so I'm not sure how it goes.  I'm guessing they don't have a special file?
Carbide chain is just as easy to sharpen than a regular chain when using a diamond coated bit on a dremel. All you have to do is to pick the right diameter bit and keep on the same angles as you would normally do. Regular stone bits, files or wheels cannot be used on carbide.

Again, Carbide is not the fastest, but on it reduces downtime so much because it will remain sharp much longer. This is why I consider it the safest chain to use for someone who does not want to sharpen or switch chains several times a day because they became dull in fallen wood.

I use regular chains on my MS660 to fall trees and to chop the large diameter sections immediately on firewood size logs. If for any reason I must drag a big log into dirt with my logging winch, I will clean up dirt as much as possible and use my MS261 with a carbide tipped chain to spare the sharpness on my regular chains.  It all depends on the equipment you have, the size of trees and the equipment you have to get the wood to destination. I use the loader of my farm tractor to carry the 16-18in sections to the area where they will be split. I use my logging winch to drag the long logs that will be used on my my portable wood mill.  Prior to milling with a regular ripping chain, I will clean dirty surfaces with a garden hose connected to a portable water pump.

If someone has a different size and different type of wood, equipment, skills and type of operation, his choice of chain will likely be different than mine, but before you say carb tipped chains performance is so much slower and hard to sharpen, just try it for a few days.  You may have a different opinion after that ! If you can't touch a dremel and prefer regular chains and old fashion files, you are more patient than I am. If you prefer grinding wheels, we may open another topic to discuss if that is the best sharpening method to start with. I think unless you got the right quality of grinder and technique, sharpening with a grinding wheel is fast but not the best for maintenance. I use diamond dust coated or regular manual files to shapen my ripping chains at precisely 10degrees with a filing guide and a Timberline chainsaw sharpener for maintenance of my regular chains. I only use the Dremel on my Carbide tipped chains. Too much powererd grinding is eating up chains very fast. Manual sharpening is best for maintenance in my humble opinion.
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

dirtmover1250

is this 63PS chain available for saws above 50CC?
Stihl MS180C, 16" bar
Stihl MS362CM, 20" bar

HolmenTree

Not recommended as the largest saws to accept a 3/8 Picco rim sprocket are the 024/026- MS241CM /MS261.  These Picco pitch rims are only available  in 7 tooth mini spline .

I do have an odd ball Picco sprocket drum for my 066. Stihl years back made this spur sprocket clutch drum for Log O Sol chainsaw mills for the 066/660.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

dirtmover1250

just because of this chain and this thread, its got me thinking about a 261 now.
Stihl MS180C, 16" bar
Stihl MS362CM, 20" bar

lamimartin

Quote from: dirtmover1250 on June 12, 2015, 05:29:04 PM
just because of this chain and this thread, its got me thinking about a 261 now.
You won't regret the extra power (43 vs 50cc) MS261 is very versatile and rugged.
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

ladylake

 
40cc saws with picco chain are not that far behind a good 50cc saw and cut faster than mid range 50 cc saws.  With the wood your showing you'll like the light weight of a 40 cc saw.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

lamimartin

Quote from: ladylake on June 12, 2015, 07:28:34 PM
 
40cc saws with picco chain are not that far behind a good 50cc saw and cut faster than mid range 50 cc saws.  With the wood your showing you'll like the light weight of a 40 cc saw.   Steve
Maybe dirtmover1250 has different needs and than Troymichael who started this topic.
MS-261 offers more power, more bar lenght options and more possible chain types than MS241. Both are excellent saws but unless MS241 is equipped with a picco chain, it just can't compete with a MS261.  If light weight is the main focus, a MS241 is fine, but otherwise the MS261 is more powerful and more versatile. If you ever need a bar longer than 16", MS261 is again a clear winner, even if personnaly, I prefer to remain light and powerful at 16" on mine.
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

Troymichael

Hey everyone, well I picked up the MS 241-CM last night, heres a few quick pics comparing it to my MS 171

going up north in about an hour to try it out. Thanks for the help everyone.




  

 

HolmenTree

Looking good.
Get about 10 tanks of fuel through it then you'll  start to feel its real potential 8)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Troymichael

Alright, so I am back from up north..

First thing, is this saw is awesome !!! tons of power ! is like the weight of the ms 171 but with tons of power ! 

I took it safe and steady, cut down two trees, and worked on one stump ..

I think I need help, what is the best way to get these stumps down to ground level ? basically I need them low enough so that My camper can drive over them without scraping .

so far very happy with the saw ! nice and light, but with tons of power.




  

 

dirtmover1250

your best bet is to dig dirt out away from the stump all the way around so your saw will have clearance to cut.

im not sure of the name, but they make this stuff that you can put on stumps that will prevent second growth and speed up the decomposition of the stump. i cant think of the name of it, but i think it starts with "termi" at the beginning. its a green color when you apply it.

a tree company put some of that stuff on one near our fence line and it wasnt long after, you couldnt tell the stump was even there.
Stihl MS180C, 16" bar
Stihl MS362CM, 20" bar

beenthere

I'd suggest just building your camp fire over the stump location and keep burning til it is gone.
Otherwise, sans a stump grinder, it will be a heck of a lot of sweat and dull chainsaw teeth. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

stihltoomany

I agree with Holmen Tree. Picco super is great. Thought the 026 had been ported after the changeover. I also like the Duro carbide chain. not for every saw everyday, but when needed. You guys are awful hard on the ms170. I have a MS180 that has been used for several years without problems. It ain't no 056 but useful for its intended purpose. I don't cut everyday like Holmen does, but when I cut we hit it fairly hard. By the way thanks to Holmen for turning me on to picco super chain. Good luck to the OP, looks like you are in for alot of fun. Just be careful, experience is what you get from mistakes, if you live to tell about it.
:D
Way too many saws, mostly STIHL
Bobcat S650, Bobcat 331 excavator Bobcat A770
and other dirt toys
Looking for hyd bandsaw mill, Timberking used maybe? NOT anymore!
WoodMizer LT40 super

lamimartin

Quote from: Troymichael on June 13, 2015, 10:17:21 PM
Alright, so I am back from up north..

First thing, is this saw is awesome !!! tons of power ! is like the weight of the ms 171 but with tons of power ! 

I took it safe and steady, cut down two trees, and worked on one stump ..

I think I need help, what is the best way to get these stumps down to ground level ? basically I need them low enough so that My camper can drive over them without scraping .

so far very happy with the saw ! nice and light, but with tons of power.
I'm glad to hear you are pleased with saw performance...
Just remember you are breaking in a brand new chainsaw: (from user manual)

A factory new machine should not be run at high revs (full throttle off load) for the
first three tank fillings. This avoids unnecessarily high loads during the
break-in period. As all moving parts have to bed in during the break-in
period, the frictional resistances in the shortblock are greater during this period.
The engine develops its maximum power after about 5 to 15 tank fillings.
I would add: (from User manual)
The machine may only be used to saw wood and wooden objects

I used carbide tipped chains for cutting stumps very low as you intended, but beware of the fact this is a very risky business. Imbedded rocks are often found between roots and you may simply BREAK your carbide teeth under such conditions. Carbide teeths are intended for dirty wood but not really for cutting roots.  Making a fire over the stump is a cheap alternative if you have plenty of water available to kill the fire (usually not the case in forest)... and even if you think it is killed, fire tends to spread under the moss and may ignite again weeks later. The labour intensive, less expensive but safe other way to do it is to dig a trench around it and cut roots one after the other with a big axe you can resharpen and demolition Reciprocating Saw with a few spare blades. Low speed and low cost tools you can sharpen up.

I would rather follow Beenthere suggestion : Renting a stump grinder is the safest, fastest and easiest way to get permanent results with predictible cost. It will save you time and potentially expensive damages.
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

HolmenTree

Stump grinder was my first thought too. I use my 395XP and 066 with 28"/32" b/c to lower my stumps to save time and work for my stumpgrinder. 
Troymicheal shop around at a local rental shop for a stump grinder to rent for a day or so.

Other option is I see you have a Honda generator that could power an angle grinder with a wire brush wheel or cup. Clean up the bark with that and then run your 241.
But be warned as hardwood trees are known to draw stones up into their stumps as they grow.
Depending  how soft your ground is I think a 4" high stump would  be low enough for your camper. Just throw some gravel or dirt around a 4" high stump and I think you'd  be good to go.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

luvmexfood

There is a product at Lowe's that is supposed to aid in stump rotting. Never picked up a bottle and looked at it but it is the chemical aisle along with the weed killer etc.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

HolmenTree

Quote from: luvmexfood on June 14, 2015, 09:26:23 AM
There is a product at Lowe's that is supposed to aid in stump rotting. Never picked up a bottle and looked at it but it is the chemical aisle along with the weed killer etc.
Stump removal is a big part of my business and it's  funny when a customer asks about drilling holes in theur stumps and pouring stump remover chemicals into it.

I just reply  "In 5 to 10 years you may have success, but in the meantime  don't  let your pets or kids go near it." :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

missedbass

+1 on renting a stump grinder. The time you save using a stump grinder is worth it.
Stihl ms271
Fiskars x27

Ianab

Quote from: beenthere on June 13, 2015, 11:17:54 PM
I'd suggest just building your camp fire over the stump location and keep burning til it is gone.
Otherwise, sans a stump grinder, it will be a heck of a lot of sweat and dull chainsaw teeth. ;)

Some folks have used a hollowed out tire rim or 1/ 2 a drum. Put that around the stump, and keep chucking wood in there over the day(s). This keeps the fire and embers piled on the stump, Just lighting a fire leaves you with a charred stump after 1/2 an hour. But keep that fire contained and burning hot, and there wont be much left next day.

For example
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,67464.msg1012421.html#msg1012421
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

JohnG28

I like that idea, may have to try that on a stump or two here.  I have seen roots smoldering underground 2 days later when a neighbor placed their fire pit in a bad spot near our camp though, so I assume some care needs to be taken.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

sablatnic

Normally I just cut the stump low enough not to bother the lawnmower or car, or whatever I have to drive over it. Found this option on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OogDqtS798

4x4American

TSC sells a product called Gordon's Stump remover.  I have never tried it but I have heard good things.  I bought a bottle the other day a few months ago.  It was like $8 and looks like one bottle will do quite a few stumps. 


What you do is you drill one hole straight down, and another at a 45 degree angle, meet the ends, kinda like the falling notch they have to meet.  Then dump diesel or kero down the holes, and water and stuff, then you dump the Gordon's down it with more diesel or something, and light it on fire.  Supposedly it will smolder for a few days until its down to the roots.
Boy, back in my day..

Dixon700

Backhoe for stump removal. That was my choice, but then you'd need a bunch of fill...
Ms 460 mag 25" b/c muffler modded 010av  14" b/c
94 case 580sk 04.5 ram 2500

HolmenTree

Stump grinder leaves lots of fill and no stump an ripped out roots to haul away.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

JohnG28

Is the ground stump good as fill in a yard? I had thought that it would be better pulled out and topsoil filled over?
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

dirtmover1250

Quote from: JohnG28 on June 16, 2015, 11:26:05 PM
Is the ground stump good as fill in a yard? I had thought that it would be better pulled out and topsoil filled over?


the mulch will eventually turn into topsoil, especially if you keep stirring it up periodically.

its kind of a tricky situation, you can either dig some of that mulch out so by the time you fill it in with topsoil it will be level, but in 10 or 15yrs you will have a settling problem, and will have to deal with adding more dirt. or you could just cap it off with dirt and forget about it for a while, and it may settle down flat.
Stihl MS180C, 16" bar
Stihl MS362CM, 20" bar

beenthere

Not real good as fill, as it will eventually decay and lose some of its volume. Will leave a depression eventually that will need some fill to level the yard off again.
After a few years of rotting (the number of years will depend on the species and how resistant to decay that wood might be), the bulk of the stump will roll out easily. Roots are thin and decay more quickly.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

lamimartin

Quote from: Dixon700 on June 16, 2015, 03:11:23 AM
Backhoe for stump removal. That was my choice, but then you'd need a bunch of fill...
For stumps over a foot diameter, a backoe may not be strong enough. It may work, but it will take a very long time on big stumps because the operator must work to avoid expensive machinery damages. Pulling strenght of a backoe is not the same as a full scale excavator. Considering the risk of damages and very long time required on big stumps, this option can rapidly turn to be far more expensive than a stump grinder. The main risk with a stump grinder is to hit big rocks that may break the carbide teeth. Otherwise, stump grinder operating cost and time required is predictible, as opposed to use machinery that was not designed for that purpose (chainsaw, backoe).
1964 Oliver 550 tractor, 41hp with custom loader and roof. Interforst SW6600 PTO driven 3tons winch. Stihl MS660 for Logosol M8 Sawmill and Stihl MS261 for firewood.

JohnG28

That's what I was thinking in regards decaying and sinking. In my case the trees needing to go are pine and spruce also, so more acidic in the soil which wouldn't help.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

HolmenTree

Quote from: JohnG28 on June 16, 2015, 11:26:05 PM
Is the ground stump good as fill in a yard? I had thought that it would be better pulled out and topsoil filled over?
I thought we were talking about stump removal in the forest where fill may not be important.
Let me explain for residential  stumps.
The wood fiber of a stump is the densest  part of the tree; when it's  completely  ground up the resulting chips volume is probably  5 times or more greater then the stump size.
These chips I haul away for my customers and the remaining chewed up dirt nd mulch I put back into the hole. 
I always grind out the whole stump so if my customers  decide they can plant a new tree there. Otherwise they will have to top the hole with dirt fill if they want to plant grass seed or turf it over..
Yes tamping is recommended.
The only thing that breaks carbide off my teeth is steel buried in the ground. Rocks like granite only round the sharp edge off and I then just turn the tooth for a sharp edge again.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Dixon700

Quote from: lamimartin on June 17, 2015, 07:05:41 AM
Quote from: Dixon700 on June 16, 2015, 03:11:23 AM
Backhoe for stump removal. That was my choice, but then you'd need a bunch of fill...
For stumps over a foot diameter, a backoe may not be strong enough. It may work, but it will take a very long time on big stumps because the operator must work to avoid expensive machinery damages. Pulling strenght of a backoe is not the same as a full scale excavator. Considering the risk of damages and very long time required on big stumps, this option can rapidly turn to be far more expensive than a stump grinder. The main risk with a stump grinder is to hit big rocks that may break the carbide teeth. Otherwise, stump grinder operating cost and time required is predictible, as opposed to use machinery that was not designed for that purpose (chainsaw, backoe).
my 580sk is quite the digger. It's over 13k lbs of force from the back hoe. I've dug up a few stumps  around 3' diameter. I need to build a thumb to put on my dipper though.  It is a good sized backhoe though.
Ms 460 mag 25" b/c muffler modded 010av  14" b/c
94 case 580sk 04.5 ram 2500

HolmenTree

A good hoe operator  can do a nice job removing  a good sized stump if he's  able to cut all the anchor roots around a stump without disturbing too much ground.
But that envolves moving the machine  around the perimeter  of the stump in most cases . Doing that can destroy a lawn in someone's yard pretty quick.....same goes  just ripping the stump out and pulling all its roots from all over the yard with it.

I've  seen it all  in my biz, but in the end the stump grinder does it the best.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

dirtmover1250

here is a pic to give an idea how big a root ball can be. here is one i ripped out with an excavator that i managed to get a pic of. yours truly at the controls. the trick is to dig around the root ball, not try to rip it out with minimal excavation. that is where your average guy messes up and breaks things. you can do it with a backhoe, but you're really going to have to open one up. then depending on the size of the root ball, the backhoe may or may not lift it, but it will atleast budge it. you might be able to roll it out.

this was the summer of 2009, clearing trees for a construction project. if the timber that was not marketable, i'd just dig on the root ball in the direction of felling and knock the trees down hole. some of the stumps i got to take out as well. this is with a komatsu 400 (40 ton) excavator. on this job we had a sycamore that was so big, i'd say the tree was 3 or 4' in diameter, and the root ball was every bit of 10' across. It took this excavator and a cat D6, on each side of the root ball (60 tons of machinery) to move this tree whole, into a stockpile. the 40 ton hoe would not budge the sycamore at all.

Stihl MS180C, 16" bar
Stihl MS362CM, 20" bar

Dixon700

Ya, when I had the small tractor with a hoe on it. I had a huge crater in my back yard for a stump. The hole was bigger than my above ground pool. Huge mess. Then broke the tractor trying to extract the stump from the hole.  Now with the 580sk I found taking trees down whole is way easier than digging stumps. I've shove over trees as big as 3' across 80+ feet tall with minimal ground tore up.  Now pines under 15" are easy either way. Im Clearing out and leveling some land and it's mostly tall thinner pine trees. A bunch will just get cut close and covered up. I'm burying most of the trees. I have no use for the pine and my grandpa has an indoor Woodstock so no pine in that. Some of the big pines that I'm felling  there's a few around 3' or so diameter that a Co worker may have milled down to boards.
Ms 460 mag 25" b/c muffler modded 010av  14" b/c
94 case 580sk 04.5 ram 2500

JohnG28

Thanks for the info HT. That's more along hat I was thinking. I also have some roots snaking up and down in parts of the yard so grinding definitely makes sense. Just have to finish sheet rocking the living room and putting in the new floors, then I get to play outside!  :D
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

gaproperty

Quote from: HolmenTree on June 04, 2015, 12:41:29 AM
Domino  falling is a disaster for the inexperienced.
First thing you have to do is to see what direction  the "natural lean" or "common lean " of your stand of timber is.
In my area our tree's natural lean is south east. So the first tree I would fell is in the south east corner of my woodlot. I would cut a straight "face" or a cut line along the south boundary east to west cutting and piling my logs or stove length as I go.
Keep working your stand of timber north ward cutting swaths and piling as your work east to west , west to east.
Limbs and tops cut and left where their  laid , only clear them off your piles as you go.

But to clarify,  as your cutting and piling on a "face" east to west, west to east as you work northward  your trees are felled at 45° pointing south east into your cut over or clearing along your  face line.
so what about vibration. Is the 261 smooth and vibration free?
Ray
lostcaper.com
youtube.com/c/LostCaper

snowstorm


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