Need some advice on EXTREME logging situation.

[Ken]

Interesting topic.  I would also like to see the pictures of tree from felling to finished product.  Good luck and stay safe.

[4x4American]

Northman is that how you setup your gyppo yarder?


I think your best bet is to fly the northman out here!  I'll bring down my 461r and 660r for him to use...

Similar but different... All cable yarding is more or less the same principle, one cable lifts the load the other drags it up the hill. You can get all sorts of fancy depending on how much cable and how many winches you have...

The "Gypo Yarder" is a little more robust then the portable winches, and could pull a whole lot more, so we took the time to top a spar tree and rig guy lines. And I had a cruddy "carriage" that only sometimes worked but basically the same as a pulley hooked to the skyline, and chokers hanging off of it, with the haulback shackled to the pulley. 

A real shotgun carriage is really no more than a big hunk of iron with two pulleys, and a bunch of chokers attached to it. the weight of it draws the line down the hill...

If you were to hang about 100#s of whatever to that pulley it will probably be enough to free spool down to where you are cutting... probably...

Sounds cool, do you use it much or is the Missus pulling all the wood?

[thenorthman]

Pretty much just used it on a hand full of jobs, only one in its current form. The first two it was still called the MkI...

Its super slow, and needs a better motor and drive system to be productive, but it paid for the missus in 4 months so I can't complain much.

Its still parked in the yard here, waiting for a day when I decide what to do with it, build it bigger and better with a folding tower, and a diesel engine, or just sell it to the next guy with big dreams.

[sealark37]

If you could find a helicopter operator who was experienced and equipped for long-line logging, your budget would be shot before he lifted the first log.  I would try to find a tree man who is experienced in climbing large trees and pay him to cut and lower your blocks one at a time from the top down.  Once the wood is on the ground, the problem becomes much more manageable.  Regards, Clark 

[4x4American]

Pretty cool...you should just sell it to the op!

[g_man]

Just wondering - could you rent a very small dozer like a Komatsu dp21 with a winch and get it in there. Use it for a day or two to get the trees up to the road sounds like about $500.

[BradMarks]

I have and have used a Lewis winch in a similiar fashion for removing Yew wood bark from steeper slopes where the packout was undesirable. And also elk. A lot of the posts here seem to address "whole log removal" with cones,etc. Northman accurately portrays a simple skyline system, but even that may be more than what is necessary. Nathan stated that the wood is cut into 24" lengths, which could then be gathered into some kind of "tote or carriage".  We did just this with the yew wood, our tote was the large helicopter fertilizer bags, they are super strong, and have handles to attach to. If you have a tall enough tree on the uphill side of your landing area, rig a pulley up the tree. Cable off your winch to a tree downhill hill from your pulley tree. Run your line up thru the pulley and down the hill to your cache. Hook on and go.  With the pulley tree above you, the load can be set where you want. Yes you are deadheading back down the hill with the cable, and following your load up as it is pulled (which is not always bad - in case of hangups).  Also, my winch is loaded with 3/16" aircraft cable for backing and 1/8" for pulling.  The 3/16 is to keep from having to unwind the entire drum, the 1/8 is for maximum length available. Larger the drum size the quicker the pull - and it is not quick by any stretch of the imagination. 1/8" is rated at 2000lbs (7x19).

[stoneeaglefarm]

Several folks have chimed in on the winch, 4 wheeler idea, If you have one or can borrow one, Try a practice run, You guys sound like you are use to the hard humping, Ya know hauling things on back, Did it for years in Alaska with gear and equipment, Then the 4 wheeler came about with good winches and you can really do some amazing stuff, Its not real fast, But it will get the job down with some customizing of the rigging, Air plane cable or rope cable fit nice on a out frame back pack and you can haul several sections tied on the outside and your small size chocker cable and other rigging in the inside of pack, Looking forward to what ever you do to make this work. Good luck and send some pictures.

[oros35]

I was thinking the winch on my Jeep would do a good job of this.  My jeep is not stock, truck axles and 37" tires.  If there is enough room the Jeep will get there, that's what the winch is for.  I'm sure you can find someone in the area with a capable off road rig that can get to the location. Offer them some money.  They would probably do it just for the challenge of it. 

You would need to get creative pulling about 50-75' at a time (100' on the winch drum) but that's just the details. 

I've pulled many logs up some pretty steep slopes with mine.  9Klb winch will move a pretty good size log.  Tie off the jeep to another tree, and use some blocks to get the right angles and to double up if you have to. 

[enigmaT120]

What kind of winch do you have on your Jeep, Oros35?  I have a Warn 8274 on my Toyota and the electric cables get pretty hot on a long pull.  I'm making new ones though, with bigger wire.  I think hydraulic or pto would be better but I don't have any experience yet with either.

[enigmaT120]

Thenorthman. Excellent instructions on how to set up a simple yarder operation. Even I could follow them.

I just printed them out.  Thanks Northman.

[oros35]

What kind of winch do you have on your Jeep, Oros35? 

Warn 9500ti with synthetic rope. 

It will get warm, just have to be patient.  Give it a break, let things cool.  Also have a hand throttle to keep the RPM's up to keep the battery charged.

[John Mc]

It's not just the cables you need to worry about overheating. A lot of electric winches won;t take a long pull at heavy loads.

[roger 4400]

Can a tractor go there???? I have a tractor with a Farmi winch, it would pull near 8,000 pounds, has 165 ft of wire and sometime I add 100 to 150 ft of rope  ( non-stretchy) 8000 pounds resistance,so over 300 ft  and with a snatchblock pulley you can haul a lot.........good luck

[John Mc]

Roger - if you are using an 8000# rated rope on a winch that pulls 8000#, that could become a problem. Usually a rope or cable is rated well over the pulling capacity of the winch. Or was that 8000# the "working load" rating, which would imply a significantly higher "breaking load" rating?

[John Woodworth]

As for the Humbolt, Crown Zellerback spesified it in all there operations in 1978' the goll was the scale lost with the face cut undercut, as far as your wood, cut it in the blocks you would normally cut and pull them out with a winch, your choice as what to use, build a small sled to move them on, you don't need to over rig the country in doing so, they cut shake bolts years ago and it worked for them so should work for you. if you can fall them side hill will help, sounds like and your going to need some sort of winch so there is your leverage to help the direction of fall if wedges won't do it.

[SwampDonkey]

How about sourcing timber on ground that is easier to work on? Up here in New Brunswick the timber companies cut red spruce every day off public land. That might be the kicker though, because if you ask DNR about getting some of them red spruce logs they play the "deal with the licensee" game and the licensee will always so no to anything interfering with their agenda.  Thus keep the doors shut on any value added outside of lumber and pulp. One of the reasons I suppose you have to work on difficult terrain for your logs.

[roger 4400]

Hi John Mc.
I bought that rope many years ago, I remember it was 8000 pounds rated but I cannot answer if it was on load or breaking point ....but I often stalled the winch to it's maximum pulling capacity and the rope never broke, I only use that rope extension when the log is farther than 160 ft , I added it to my wire on the winch so even if it brakes I will be far enough , at least 100 ft of the rope. Thank you for your concern. Roger.

[Offthebeatenpath]

Nathan,

I frequently set up skyline systems with hand powered hoists to move logs and rocks 500 feet or more through the air.  You should be able to get a great system with a $5000 budget. Northman's instructions are detailed and straight forward; however, I would be very careful setting up a system like that based on a few paragraphs of text.  You can exert some pretty significant forces with a capstan winch, even when the load weight is minimal. I would think about taking a course or hiring someone who does this to come help you out for a few days.

I teach courses from 1 day to 2 weeks on how to do this sort of stuff, but I also know some folks in Western NC who might be able to help you out if you're interested.  Feel free to shoot me a personal message if you want more info.

Jed

[woodsrunner]

Seriously, you are making this much too complicated. I have been in these types of situations before. There is a simple solution. HIRE A LOCAL LOGGER TO FELL AND SKID THESE TREES. All the rest of these ideas will cost way more money and effort. A good logger with a modern skidded or DozerDan with a winch will solve this problem for very little money. And it will be much safer.

[barbender]

I posted a link on here once, years back, about a guy that built a mini yarder out of and old garden tiller to get firewood out of a deep ravine. I don't have time to find it, but you could use the forum search to dig it up, I'm sure.

[barbender]

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/deaton0601.html