For newbie sawmill owners

[drobertson]

After reading multiple threads on everything from how to cut a log, to how many boards in a log, to why is it not sawing correctly?
My only response can be, just saw and learn like everyone else has.  Not trying to be rude in any stretch of the imagination, just stating the facts.  Lawyers, doctors, welders and tool makers go to school, then learn by many ways, humiliation, trial and error, and lots of hand on experiences.  This really is the only way to learn, by mistakes.  It was told to me years ago, college is a great tool, but it only teaches one how to learn, not necessarily the craft itself.  This can only be obtained by personal experiences and mistakes after the foundation has been laid.  There is no magic recipe in sawing, at least what I have seen in 11 years of it, just lots of work.  But if it's what drives you then I say go for it. Just keep in mind, talking to a brick wall based on a  false perception will only bring frustration.  I say take notes, at least mental ones and keep on keeping on.  It really is a roller coaster ride.   

[Magicman]

OK, I agree but only to a point.  I wish that I had had (Tom) the resources of the FF when I started sawing by the seat of my pants 13 years ago.  Oh my, how many mistakes I made, some of which had to rest overnight or even for a few days until I figured out what to do.

I regularly pick up tidbits of information on here that I incorporate into my sawing routine.

[WDH]

The first real whack of logs that I sawed were a tractor trailer load of walnut.  I made a number of mistakes, and as I still have some of that lumber, I am still living with those mistakes.  I did not know about the Forestry Forum in 2002. 

[Dave Shepard]

Learning from ones own mistakes is one way to do it, but I'd rather learn from the other guy's mistakes. :D

[Magicman]

I did not even have a computer in 2002.  :

[bkaimwood]

I can't help but say, respectfully as always, and especially respectfully to the forestry forum, isn't that why the forum its here in the first place? For everyone to learn? If everyone should just go off and learn on their own, then why come here in the first place? Eveyone is here to learn, comment, and help...so far. If your tired of hearing about all the newbie questions, then maybe this isn't the forum for you...or maybe just stop reading and answering them. Everyone here, including you, was a newbie at one point. Don't be a hater because technology and the forestry forum provides help maybe you didn't have. I apologize for not holding back, and merely voicing my opinion I'm sure the majority agree with. If this post gets me in the negative, I apologize to the forestry forum and all its respected and respectful members. And thanks for the additional pic in my other thread Magicman, WM called today to request you for a centerfold...

[Ox]

This place is great for people with poor memories and lack of intelligence to come up with different ideas for a single problem.  These people I refer to is me.  I tend to think of a solution in one way, then I can't seem to falter away from that into something completely different.  Folks here have imagination where I don't.  I love it here.  Thanks to Jeff for starting it running it and to all the admins who keep it going.
And thanks to all you guys who make it feel like a virtual meeting house like used to be in the old days.

[Dad2FourWI]

I love to read and learn from y'all !!!!

I wish I had more time to follow some of these threads more closely... but my farm-work gets in the way!!!! >:(

I read every question, answer (when my VERY limited experience can), and appreciate reading all the responses from the real sawyers!!!! (a rank I hope to eventually reach!!!!!)

Many thanks to all who share knowledge, experience, ideas, and __pictures__  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

-Dad2FourWI

[drobertson]

I can't help but say, respectfully as always, and especially respectfully to the forestry forum, isn't that why the forum its here in the first place? For everyone to learn? If everyone should just go off and learn on their own, then why come here in the first place? Eveyone is here to learn, comment, and help...so far. If your tired of hearing about all the newbie questions, then maybe this isn't the forum for you...or maybe just stop reading and answering them. Everyone here, including you, was a newbie at one point. Don't be a hater because technology and the forestry forum provides help maybe you didn't have. I apologize for not holding back, and merely voicing my opinion I'm sure the majority agree with. If this post gets me in the negative, I apologize to the forestry forum and all its respected and respectful members. And thanks for the additional pic in my other thread Magicman, WM called today to request you for a centerfold...

Please don't misunderstand my post, I'm not always the most articulate, or politically correct.  All I am trying to say is when good information is given from the good folks here, I just believe that it should then be given a good solid chance, with what's learned stored back.  I've just seen a few that want or need to refute what knowledge has been shared and for whatever reason  and fight and  the advice rather than go the next step.  That's all,  I too have learned much from this forum, and have met some great friends in the process. I only wish I had known about the FF when I bought my mill, but in some ways kinda glad I did not, I believe the only real way of learning is by experience.  And it can be costly and frustrating, I mean no ill intentions to the new guys in anyway, I just say work on figuring it out on your own.  Yes, I like to have someone else make a mistake for me, but that's not learning, just my view..  I say make more dust ;D and it will work in the end.   david

[Dad2FourWI]

Yes, I am guilty of "over analyzing".... we call it "analysis paralysis"!!!!

It does help to occasionally get a "nudge" and get moving....

Now, I think I will read some more.....  :D :D :D :D Just kidding!!!!

Cheers!,
-Dad2FourWI

[Verticaltrx]

Edit: After rereading this thread what I posted was irrelevant to the topic at hand. Carry on. 

[drobertson]

Yes, I am guilty of "over analyzing".... we call it "analysis paralysis"!!!!

It does help to occasionally get a "nudge" and get moving....

Now, I think I will read some more.....  :D :D :D :D Just kidding!!!!

Cheers!,
-Dad2FourWI

:D :D I was taught "Paralysis by analysis" ;D but the same result ya know, not much gets done,  just venting here and at the same time hoping new owners not completely buying in to the big money making scheme until  the bugs are worked out.. and let it be said there are bugs ready and waiting..

[bkaimwood]

Thanks for clarifying David. I'll admit, I was a tad offended...but mostly due to wording, not by your overall intention. I've been sawing for just over a year, so I consider myself new, but not altogether green to sawing... Maybe just a tint... Compared to the veterans, I'm still crawling. For the first time, I met a relatively local saywer and got a chance to see some of his lumber...I noted where the cuts were taken from, which indicated log position, planning, reading the log, and so forth. I noted silently all the lumber defects, loss, and quality issues because of decisions made, or not made. Nice guy, sawing for over 10 times, maybe 20 times as long as me. And my education is much farther along, mainly because of you guys. I'm an army of one, one man band. I've never had a mentor. I've learned the largest percentage of information on my own, through experience, trial and error, and yup, the HARD way. Aside from the learning, its a great place to meet new friends. This is the only place I'm allowed to talk about wood and not get in trouble for it...wife is tired of it!! The last post in this thread hit a very good point and topic, and hit it square on the head. With all the company advertisements, and creativity of humanity, and idealisms of starting your own business, the theory of buying a new sawmill, clearing land, making money with your new mill hand over fist, sawing for others, portable sawmill services, living the good life....you get the idea...has gotten, and is continuing to get more and more and more people into serious trouble. If you have never owned your own business, believe me, you have NO idea what you are in for...its much easier in some industries, but certainly not the general contracting, handyman, and sawing hybrid business I'm in. I'm not saying its not possible, as there are plenty of very successful mills across the country. But one's level of success and obstacles to become successful are, without a doubt, governed by one thing...your location...demand and number of sawyers in your area. Just saying be careful guys, there are plenty of manufacturers and finance companies more than willing to help set you up to live in the poorhouse.

[Peter Drouin]

It would be nice if there was more full time sawyers on here.

[47sawdust]

It seems to me that the Forum has become more popular with age.As Peter said more full time sawyers used to be posting.Now a lot of newcomers are posting and I guess I fall in to that category as well.What I would encourage new folks to do is search the archives for the problem you wish to address before posting a repeat post.Their is a wealth of info.here and most problems have been previously discussed.The forum isn't really a chat room,but it is social.It is good to welcome all comers but you do need to play well with others or the big bear from the north will GROWL.

[Magicman]

I doubt that there are many questions or situations that have not been addressed many times.  I see that multiple times and often within a few months and sometimes within weeks.  Those items may be boring or even frustrating at times, but they are still important to the person that needs an answer. 

Telling them to do a search may even be a turnoff for them because they may not be familiar with that function.  It takes a bit of time to learn all of the goodies that Jeff has incorporated within the FF.  It's easier for us to search and provide a LINK to that item which shows the new member that the information was already available.  That saves embarrassment plus is a learning tool, not only for them, but for us too.  Re-reading and reviewing creates a "V8" moment for everyone.

[justallan1]

drobertson, I agree with your thinking in the sense that we should be getting some hands on experience as we ask seemingly unimportant questions on this journey, BUT this forum provides a place to view many options to any given situation we may run across. I think this forum is priceless and (in my opinion) the single biggest and best place to go for info.
I do agree with 47sawdust about using the archives and will add that the search bar might ought to be used more often at times, myself included ;D, but not everyone has learned to use all the functions of this forum. I'm fairly certain I've asked what seemed like unimportant questions and really appreciate a place that I can get respectful answers for the simplest question I may have.

[drobertson]

This forum is a great place for sharing stories and the occasional trouble shooting issues that arise, it has helped me numerous times and given my some great ideas, what troubles me is when new owners fail to reach out to the manufacturer, and then come close to arguing
with the advice given by the ones they have reached out.   And as mentioned, the search function has to be one of the most helpful databases I've ever seen. 

[symamania]

Gday guys

new to the forum and looking into getting into milling. Ive been looking at buying a stihl 076 saw and possibly buying a Granberg mill. can any one tell me whether these mills are the go for a first timer or not much chop.

not having the best of luck finding a good second hand saw in western Australia with our high postage prices but will keep looking

[Ox]

Welcome to the forum, symamania.
Many people have started with a chainsaw mill for cost and to see if it's something they want to continue doing.
Then they'll end up with a bandmill.   ;D
I started with a Granberg mill years ago.  It'll make lumber.  It's very slow.  There's lots of sawdust.  It's loud.  There's around a 3/8" kerf every time.  It cuts flat through knots and everything.  It uses lots of gas mix.  But it makes boards for a cheaper intial startup cost.
I ended up with a bandmill.  ;)

[LaneC]

Ox, I love that avatar :D. Magicman said everything that I thought about on this subject. I am just glad doctors communicate with each other. I am sure they have times when they call on a colleague and ask about unique cases, and I think most of them study more than they practice. I hope this does not come across as rude. If so I apologize now. I cannot operate a mill physically now. One day I hope to, but doubt it will happen. If it does, I will hopefully remember a lot of the advice I got from this site. I will absorb as much as possible, and if nothing else, if I do make a mistake, I will probably say "I remember now what they were talking about", But maybe I will not make the mistake to begin with because I remembered the advice from here.

[mad murdock]

[quote author=symamania link=topic=83692.msg1278004#msg1278004 date=143

new to the forum and looking into getting into milling. Ive been looking at buying a stihl 076 saw and possibly buying a Granberg mill. can any one tell me whether these mills are the go for a first timer or not much chop.

not having the best of luck finding a good second hand saw in western Australia with our high postage prices but will keep looking
[/quote]

Welcome symamania.  Granberg makes a well built CSM.  I have had one for nigh on 10 years now.  It has milled a lot for me. I bought it as a 24" mill, then after about 4 years, I ordered new rails from granberg for it, to make it a 36".  since I have acquired my Bumblebee CSM, I don't use it as much, but it is a good tool to have, and if you are wanting to make your own lumber on a budget, it is not a bad way to go.  It is a lot of work, but can be made less strenuous by incorporating Will Malof's methodology.  He has tons of good tips and helps that make running a CSM a lot easier.  As has been noted in prior posts, do some searches on here for CSM or "Chainsaw mill", you will get a lot of good info.  If second hand mills are rare there, and you are handy with fabrication, you can look at building a Bandsaw or swingmill.

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, symamania. 

[AlaskaLes]

I agree with both sides of this discussion.
Being a constant student of all things, I always do a lot of studying and researching to try and avoid as many pitfalls as I can before I buy the tools and turn them on
for the first time.
I do prefer to learn from others mistakes, as we all do.
That having been said, there comes a time when you just have to walk out there and turn the dang thing on.
In the end you just have to run it to learn it.   The motor skills/reflexes can only be established by repetition of a process.

Symamania, welcome to the forum, I'm pretty new here myself.
If you are locked into the price range of a CSM...it seems that they will do the job quite well.  They will definitely waste a large percentage of your log and are nowhere near as fast as a bandmill, but you'll still have lumber when you're done.
I'm certainly on the side of the bandmill, but we were committed to starting with more of a production machine.
I think if I was looking at a CSM, I'd check into that new electric Logosol mill that one of the Scandanavian fellows was posting about a few weeks ago.
No fuel costs; quieter; faster; and the lack of fuel costs would quickly start to offset the cost.
Good Luck

[Chuck White]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, symamania!