Back pain

[sandhills]

I stated earlier in the chiropractor thread I'd screwed up my back just didn't want to highjack that thread.  I went to one for three visits in about a 12 day time period, the adjustments helped, the first one sounded like a machine gun going off in my back.  Took a pack of steroids and tried one muscle relaxant pill (that did NOT work out well for me, on a normal year I may take 5 or 6 pills total, mostly IB profen) anyhow the pain has gotten a little better but not much. My wife is a nurse and worked for years for a surgeon that specializes in this, she's certain I blew a disc, 5th lumbar or something like that, all I know is I can definitely feel a bulge whenever I sit down in a seat of a vehicle or tractor and every bump is a whole new adventure in pain.  She got me an appointment to see him but says it will take surgery to fix it, anybody else here been through this?  I really don't have time for it right now but I'm sick of feeling miserable 24 hours a day, what would be the recovery time?  Thank you. 

[drobertson]

Yea, re-read the sciatic pain thread, many folks have, it stinks, I had L-4, and L-5 fused with rods, arthritis, was the culprit for me, still there every morning,  sitting too long, is a killer, as is heavy weight and walking with it.  I'd say get checked out to find out for sure,  I will say my chiropractor gave me the nod for the mri, she said it's time, treatments kinda came to an end.  Hope you get it figured out.  just remember, down time should be expected, sorry,,

[sandhills]

Thanks David, I should have searched a little first.  I'm not sure what this is, I've messed up my back many times and usually it will shoot down one leg or the other/groin, this time it's different so time will tell I guess.  The chiropractor told me after my last appointment "ok your done, go wreck your body again"  :D.

[WmFritz]

I was about 5 years younger then you are when I finally had a lamenectomy on  L-4/L-5. I suffered with pain for a dozen years. Now 20 years later, if I have any stiffness going on, walking a couple miles a few days a week will take care of it.

The tipping point to have the surgery for me, along with the pain, was the numb left foot. A neurologist told me that eventually the nerves die off and the feeling doesn't return.

Sorry to hear of your pain.

[Reddog]

Surgery is no guarantee of relief, just ask my wife and a few others I know that went that route.

From the chronic pain thread. Still my thoughts on pain relief while working forward through the diagnostics.

Find a good hospital run pain clinic program for the injections and treatment, cause lets just say that can be a real shady side.
Also try a couple different docs for the injections at that program.
Shots helped on mine. But I got differing results based on which Doc. So I stuck with the two that gave me the best results, instead of just who was available at the time.

[Grizzly]

Due to the loss of strength and use of my left leg and then soon after my right leg gave trouble I began the "online" research as my medical system up here said they could do nothing for me other than morphine. More details would be needed but @sandhills, please get the mri and see what your discs are doing. If they are herniated beyond what stretching exercises will recover you want the surgery and as soon as possible. I left it too long and like WmFritz says I still have some issues with my toes not feeling right. But my mobility is fully recovered and my pain is gone. Not reduced but gone. I ran into a lot of articles recommending away from fusion due to the arthritic type pain that follows after and chose to go the ADR (artificial disc replacement) route. Yes it required surgery but 3 months later I had my mobility back and no pain. Did I mention the no pain part? 

Anyway just my penny.

[Grizzly]

and happy birthday!!   8)

[sandhills]

Thanks for all the replies, I was really hoping the chiropractor would do it, and it did make a difference (or the steroids or a combination of the two) just not as much as I was hoping for.  The neurosurgeon my wife has worked for, well this is her last day with him do to a job change, she really trusts so I think I'll at least get his opinion, who knows maybe it's nothing but it sure don't feel that way. 

[Straightgrain]

I gladly accept thread hijackers sir

Caught early-enough, the hole in a hip can be widened to give the nerve room to swell as the fluid leaks...

Mine became imbarable after 100+ jumps, countless rappels, 2 decades under a helmet & rucksack, and lots of falls; by the time I retired, the permanent scar tissue on the nerves would have made a hole enlargement procedure useless.....I waited way-too long.

Drugs changed me, steroid shots didnt help me, but stretching, heat in the am, ice in the pm, staying active, and now the monthly chiro-adjustments do help.

The "discogram" procedure was the most painful experience of my life.

..............Addendum...........

What I cannot emphasize-enough is the amount of pain reduction (and weight loss) that is associated with the reduction or elimination of foods that cause inflamation and drinks that cause dehydration.

The things I quit to reduce inflamation/pain and live a healthier life:

Cigarettes, chew, snuff, coffee, liquor, beer, pork, wheat, gluten, soda, red legumes, GMOs, and most dairy products.

Building core strength (abdominals) takes some of the strain off the back.

[Grizzly]

Should I start a new thread? Looked good to go here..........you tell me please?

Anyway in reply #5 I told of my miracle at Stenum. It has been a good 4 years and now the back & leg pains are coming back. It's higher up in my back which doesn't add up to me but the leg stuff is the same as years ago. I'm a young man and my boys need an example of work & habits etc and I'm feeling pretty low. The wife & children will only allow me a certain amount of activity or I should say type of activity and then I get the "eye" or worse they'll yell at me! "DAD STOP!" And then they do my work for me..............like I'm good for nutin'. Sorry guys, just whining I guess. I'll go back to holding up the best I can. I am not willing to go surgery route and am not able to hold a job anymore so lifestyle will be changing. Right...........no more sniveling! Sorry.

[red]

I to have been having more back problems. Most I can do is light duty work at best . Walking in the morning and at night is good .  This week I also had some migraine headaches so Monday I have a doctor appt. At 52 I am thankful everyday that I can walk as good as I do .  But I have my doubts if I can do any sawmilling in the future. 

[Magicman]

I always wear this when I am sawing.


 
It's a weightlifter's belt and adds much support to my old back.


 

[Raider Bill]

You should really consider an inversion table. Spend 10-12 minutes on it just before you go to bed.
Mine has helped me more than anything else. I actually am considering buying another so I have one at the Tenn property.
Pretty much does the same thing as a chiropractor plus relieves the pressure on nerves and spine.

[coxy]

You should really consider an inversion table. Spend 10-12 minutes on it just before you go to bed.
Mine has helped me more than anything else. I actually am considering buying another so I have one at the Tenn property.
Pretty much does the same thing as a chiropractor plus relieves the pressure on nerves and spine.

after my surgery my doc told me not to use the inversion table said it my make things worse  :-\ and don't want to go through that pain again

[Raider Bill]

at least you considered it ;D

[coxy]

I would/will try anything not to go through the pain that I went through it was horrible

[Raider Bill]

Without it I would be in constant misery too.

[red]

I split firewood yesterday and am a little sore today . But overall feel good .  I split for about 15-20 minutes and walk for about 10 minutes . I also Sat down quite a bit and watched tthe birds .  Plus I over hydrate with water and Gatorade. I don't think I could make money doing it but it is good exercise for me .

[Carson-saws]

Learned to "live with it" but its that "pain in the neck" that wont go away.  I kinda figured it had something to do with the regular like nagging and honey do list thing. 

[Chop Shop]

I have a bad back.  My dad had a bad back.   My grandpa had a bad back.  Im sure his dad had one to.

Wear a bad back with pride and keep moving,,,,,,,,



Or sit down and become a surgeons paycheck and support the narcotics industry.



Learn your limitations and prosper or eat pills and start to die.

[Grizzly]

So my cousin invites me to go north for a fishing weekend. Well I haven't done much for the past 3-4 weeks and I've been feeling pretty good so I say, yep let's go! We spent some time on the boat fishing on quiet water, then some time on rough water, a little time 4x4ing down some timber trails, and I am enjoying myself. And then the back says hold on a minute I don't like this. Before 2 hours have passed I've got spasms in my back, stabbings in my legs, and nearly unable to walk around by myself cause my legs won't hold me. Talk about a weekend gone bad. He hauled me home late Sunday night and I needed help into the house. Oh well, we had a good time anyway. Anyone else experience setbacks when their not certain what activity triggered it? I know that bending of any sort is a no no for me, but some other activities I just don't understand. Or is it just the alignment of the stars???

[Ron Scott]

Have had similar experiences with the back pain. It just flares up for no reason, even from sitting to long. It really puts you down.

[Chop Shop]

Nagging back pain is just something to get used to.

Its the nerve damage/pain that causes the spasms, shocks, sciatica etc.


Sitting and driving are the worst.

Stretch regularly, especially jogging/lunge style stretches.  These make your nerves longer and more flexible.   Longer nerves dont pull so tight over bulging discs or rake over spurs etc. 

Got OFF of tabacco.  This is huge.    Keep moving, no heavy lifting, just keep all day.

[red]

I took it real easy on my back this entire month.  It has not gotten any better .  Everyone who has hurt their back learns their own injury , and I really don't think two injuries are the same. Since I had surgery in 1998 at 35 years old I have not gone water skiing horseback riding or any Fun activity that could put me in a wheelchair.  I did tear my upper quad muscle on my left leg from lifting with my legs .  That required emergency surgery but healed nicely .  Learn about Quality of Life and living with pain .

[OneWithWood]

I have had some big time back pain for the past couple of years.  The doctor offered pills but I said I could not take pills and do the work I want to do.  He set me up with ATI for some PT.  The PT folks taught me some nifty stretches and exercises for strengthening my core.  I do the stretches and exercises almost every morning.  The back pain is still there but is lessening or I am getting used to it.  I still fall trees, skid to the barn, mill, dry and wood work.  I did make up a roller table to move the 12' 4x4 cants off the mill so I only need to lift them to place on runners for bundling.
I think the back muscles became conditioned to sitting in front of a computer screen for way too many years and now those muscles are having to learn some new tricks.

[Raider Bill]

I think the back muscles became conditioned to sitting in front of a computer screen for way too many years and now those muscles are having to learn some new tricks.

This sure is true in my case.

[Roxie]

Just checking in and wondering how you're doing, Sandhills.   

[chet]

Just checking in and wondering how you're doing, Sandhills.   

Also Ron, now that it's been a year since your last proceedure.

[Ron Scott]

Hanging in there. The Ryzotomy procedure helped decrease my back pain a lot and I've avoided surgery so far.

[Carson-saws]

Ron Scott...Always wishing you the best Sir.  Especially cuz you are a Michigan Man.

[streem26]

  I’ve been managing lower back pain for decades now but it’s not bad at all day to day given that I don’t play tennis very much anymore and it takes a lot more for me these days to do stupid things tied to inappropriate lifting, careless physical exertion, and so on.I looked some reviews  and think to buy for me and family massage chair , I live near a mall and tried it often there.
In general, the chair allows you to integrate massage daily, or more precisely, very regularly, certainly far more than monthly.  Granted, the impact is potentially not as deep as a true human massage, but there are benefits, and in my case, there’s absolutely no question it’s relaxing.  “Relaxing” to me is the baseline, lowest possible bar for a chair. 

[drobertson]

Just got back from seeing a different surgeon, looks like I have it again, just above the previous fusion, doc said this in not that uncommon.  Severe stenosis L-4,L-3 this time, worst part is the waiting, next appointment only two months away,,the positive side it looks like a progressive doctor with a slightly different approach. Time will tell, it's still going to be a set back, just thankful for my son in law, who has been in a high speed low drag training mode. Hoping all you folks with similar struggles, coupled with the routine aches and pains are getting along well.

[red]

Sorry to hear this , try swimming or even just floating in water . Dealing with pain 24/7 causes lots of Quality of Life Issues .

[Ed_K]

 A couple thing to think about, I found that soaking in the hot tub at 100 deg for 20 min helped a lot. And they have started doing replacement disks, a friend's wife had one done in L4-L5 and 6 weeks in, little to no pain and can walk standing upright.

[Grizzly]

Just ranting........... I'd sure like to understand why I can sit in particular posture for hours at a time, even driving a full 11hr day without any issues. But bend for a bit to repair something or lift something heavier than a can of pepsi ................ or just what in the world am I doing wrong that suddenly I dare not get away from a wall or something to hold on to cause I'm not sure if my legs will hold out or not. Lot's of tension and pain in the whole lower back area, sometimes a complete circus of knife throwers in my legs, and sometimes very little feeling in my feet. But try to predict this stuff or understand what I did wrong so I can avoid it next time!??!!??   >:(  Haven't figured it out yet, but this is getting frustrating. Well, for some time now. It sure was great the 2 or 3 years after surgery. Felt like a new man with a new lease on life. Not now. Ok, I'm done.

[drobertson]

no Idea man, the back pain as posted for me is not back pain, but nerve pain down the legs, may be two different scenarios.  All the same folks hurt from many issues, they all vary, but none is worse than another in my opinion.  It stinks,, plain and simple,.. praying every day for all you folks, really, do what you have to, and rest when you can,, it seems to be no easy road at times..

[red]

I just had MRI in May and I think I will be having surgery this Summer.  I can no longer go for walks in morning and evening. Last summer was all about leg pain and cramps like never before. I was very surprised when a shot of pickle juice helped . My insurance is making me got to a Hospital 20 miles away for surgery .  Just keep trying , don't give up .

[Grizzly]

, don't give up .

Sometimes I'd like to and then I find myself thinking about the next job or something I see out in the yard and away I go again. Cindy's got the children trained to give it to me if they see me trying to do too much. ........I thought I was the boss???   :(

Thanks for listening.

[Ed_K]

 You should do like Red and get an MRI, have a look see and find out what is causing the pain. I found out that at my age my back is shrinking I've lost 3" in the last 10 yrs. With the disks getting pinched the pain doesn't go away. In my case it's exercises to keep me limber that helps.

[Grizzly]

To get an effective MRI I would need to leave not only my province but likely the country. All the surgeons I've seen in SK so far will not do surgery as their is a 10% chance that I will get worse while their is a 50% chance I'll get better. 40% chance of no change. Our bureaucracy has overwhelmed our system with caution that only obvious surgeries get done. Or something like that. I've spent all I can on out of country help so I'll manage the best I can with care and stretches. Strengthening exercises bring more pain and my therapist said to stop. So it is and I'd rather learn to smile while things go bad than spend too much time whining about my lot in life. I whine too much already.

[red]

Surgery is not always the answer like you said .  I often wonder about acupuncture ?   But I can't imagine being stuck with needles. There are many things I have not done since my surgery in 1998 at 35 years old. Like horseback riding , bowling, golf , riding almost anything, now I am very careful on ladders too. But I do my Best to just get up early in the morning and do it all over again.

[red]

I cut down some dead ash trees yesterday, then bucked them up for firewood. I was extremely careful ,  but I really don't ever remember cutting firewood in this heat . Back is sore today legs are weak  so lots of rest and pickle juice today.

[Grizzly]

I managed to walk about a thousand feet yesterday in about 10 occasions. I congratulated myself for not collapsing while going a hundred feet. Oh how life changes our priorities!! Therapy says I've got more numbness now that tells her another disc is going. Yeehaa!!

Anyway I'll try and get as far as the shop today so I can sit there and give orders. I figured a couple of days rest and I could be back at it, but it's been a couple of weeks now and I'm back on meds and I don't like it. I've always hated pills; they make you less than sharp. I like to be sharp as a cookie ya know!   :D

[Ed_K]

 The pills are awful,I'm on a bunch of them also. Did the doctor say anything about replacing the disk? I've heard of a few people who have had it done. They've been doing in Europe for 10 yrs.

[coxy]

take your time don't over do it   after my back surgery it took me 2 weeks to get out of my drive way and its only 120 ft long but its up hill after getting out of the gravel and on black top I was on stoppable  like a little kid with the training wheels off his bike  8) then after they gave me back my driver license was even better then I went to the job and aggravated my dad  :D

[Grizzly]

The pills are awful,I'm on a bunch of them also. Did the doctor say anything about replacing the disk? I've heard of a few people who have had it done. They've been doing in Europe for 10 yrs.

I had S1/L5 and L5/L4 done it Aug 2011 in Stenum Germany. I think I was too careless and thought I'd never have trouble again and I completely neglected excercises and let my core muscles go slack. I'm too careless with my own health. Now I'm being diligent.

[luvmexfood]

Just a little over a week ago my lower back was aching. Only thing I had been doing different was bushogging. Waited a couple of days and did about three hours more. Within two hours of quitting I was having pain a little worse and a certain way I moved the pain was excruciating. Would just about make me pee myself it hurt so bad.

I know a massage therapist and she wants me to come in and let her massage my lower back muscles. Haven't went yet because I knew I couldn't stand it. A little better now but have been taking Ibuprofen. Anyone had any luck with massage helping? Need to get it better next week before going back out on the road working.

[grouch]

Almost all of my back pain went away when I figured out it was caused by unbalanced loading. I was in the habit of strapping my nail / tool apron on hanging on my left side. It was always loaded down. The muscles running diagonally in the small of the back were fighting to keep the spine aligned. I learned that a lot of reported back pain is caused by muscle spasms.

Therapy for me at that time was playing basketball with my son, when I could stand upright. Stretching -- including hanging loose from a chin-up bar -- helped get me walking straight up.

luvmexfood:
Is there something about bush hogging that causes you to strain one side of your back and not the other? Maybe twisting in the seat or even the shape of the seat back?

[luvmexfood]

It may be the twisting around looking behind me. Never had that problem in years past but then in years past I wasn't as old as I am now.  :D I am sure the extra padding I have put on around my mid section does't help.

[Grizzly]

Deep tissue massage (which seems to be most common here) is not what you need for most pain. When I was introduced to gentle manipulative massage in Germany I learned a great deal about different methods. If I was feeling any pain he used hot hands (by briskly rubbing hands together) and applying that to muscles to soften them up enough that he could work a little deeper slowly and firmly breaking muscles down to where they were pliable. I had another therapist give me treatment after the hospital and she used the same hot hand method for soothing my back. Deep tissue massage in those situations can be very painful and not very helpful. If I have knots in my muscles then deep tissue for sure but not for muscles that are singing tight.

[Ed_K]

Tylenol works better for me with the back and hip pain.I take pain meds also but they seem to only work on the bone pain in the arms and legs. When I was in the hospital for my stem cell transplant they used soft massage as Grizzly explained and it helped a lot. I get a lot of muscle pain turning around in the skidder, can't afford to go for massage so Rita does what they showed her at the hospital it helps for awhile.

[luvmexfood]

I don't touch Tylenol with a ten foot pole. It killed my sister.

[luvmexfood]

Went to Chiropractor today. He did a few things then had me lay flat on my stomach on the table and had me bend my knees so lower legs were pointing up and feet horizontal. Took a picture and then showed it to me and said pelvis (i think) was out of kilter and one leg was about 1.5 inches longer than the other the way it was. He did something a few times then took another picture and showed it to me. This time they were even. It had caused one of my vertibra to go out of adjustment. Put it back in place and seems to be a lot better. That was 5 hours ago. Go back Friday. Cost me $80 bucks but well worth it.

[drobertson]

Chiro's are good with the right one, sounds like you found one, pricey rascal though,  as to the massage therapy,, I went to one concerning my knee, from a suggestion from my neighbor, well my results were not as good as his,, he does not need a new knee,  so there are differences in every case. as to the deep therapy, she asked my preference,  light, med, or heavy. 20 bucks, bout 30 min session.  I can say I will do it again at some point, and will also say I've been putting off bush hogging for the very reason you stated,, it bout kills the back,, I know my doc would have a cow if I did,

[red]

You have to exercise everyday . With stretching being the very minimum. Some mornings I take a hot shower before and after exercise . For pain relief I take advil , aleve , or Motrin . I also use a heating pad then ice packs .  Some days are better then others , but the wrong move can make it very painful.

[Raider Bill]

We've got chiros on just about every corner. $35 gets you a walk in adjustment.

[luvmexfood]

After the first visit with Chiropractor the next ones or only $30. One hour massages are $50 or a half hour for $30.

Red your right about the stretching. When I was 28 I went through the Police Academy. Back then 8 weeks. An hour of PT every morning at 5:30. When we started you had to set on the floor, legs out straight, with feet against the wall. Lean forward and try to touch the wall with your hands. Most people, me included, couldn't. Every morning first in PT was stretching exercises with a partner pushing and pulling you. After 8 weeks we did the test again setting on the floor. This time it was easy to fully put your palms on the wall.

[Grizzly]

I wonder if some of my posts leave you wondering about my condition. So I'll update.

I have not worked since June when my back failed me for the 3rd time. I am currently on chronic pain control and nerve blockers so that my brain doesn't get signals it shouldn't. The worst of it is that my mobility is bad. I now walk with 2 sticks most of the time and seldom walk more than a hundred feet or so as that is all the strength my legs have. So I haven't made any sawdust in a while but still dream of it. It has been difficult to accept but if I don't accept the lifestyle change I could become highly immobile. So we'll see where life takes me/us next but in the meantime I have more time to harass y'all here on the forum.

Lyle

[Ed_K]

 Grizzly, do any of your doctor's talk about this new implant they place on the spinal cord to block the signal. The battery is supposed to last 9 yrs.

[Grizzly]

Speak on Ed. I've never heard of such. What other signals does it block?

[Magicman]

Proceed very carefully with that.  Our youngest Daughter has one because of several back surgeries/fusions.  Now it has to come out which is causing more problems that any good that it ever did.  Scar tissue has to be cut through which only leads to more scar tissue.  An acquaintance also had to have hers removed.  She said that it was the worse mistake that she had ever made.

[doctorb]

In general, spinal cord stimulators should be viewed as a last resort, pain control measure.  They are effective in some, and in others have not been effective at all.  As you can see by other postings, it's a bit of a crap shoot as to whether your quality of life will improve.  My advice is to try a lot of stuff first before resorting to a spinal cord stimulator.  At that point, most patients are grabbing at anything with the hope of improvement.

[Ed_K]

 I know nothing about them other than my son mentioned something about them before he died from over dose. I just wondered what the doctor's said about them.

[Grizzly]

Ok. So good info to have should the need arise. At this point I am enjoying a certain measure of life quality simply by not being bullheaded and insisting on working. I spend considerable amount of time resting, then a little office work, fit the Forum into the day a few times, and if at all possible go for a walk around the yard. A bit difficult now with snow and ice but at least get some fresh air. My pain levels are manageable so long as I don't do something stupid. The worst part is leg weakness or numbness. It's just hard to predict what they'll do. Makes walking tough.

I still dream of making sawdust and need to make a decision about selling or keeping the mill. My children want me to keep it; they hope to help me get a roof over it and then get my work station comfortable so I can spend some time sawing while they do all the heavy work. So we'll see what the next days bring. Thanks to all for suggestions, thoughts, and mostly for caring.