Owners rights

[CJPanko]

We own quite a bit of acreage in upstate NY.  I am trying to find the laws protecting our property from a logger.  There is an old country road boarding our entire, 1-mile length, of property.  The road is not abandoned, and it serves for a right of way for many camps in the back.  We have no problem with anyone, except this one camper/logger.  He logs his property and piles logs all over where ever he wants.  We had said we understand if the people want to widened or maintain a better road access, but also complained when more width was taken from our side than the other side/ower's side.  There has been logs piled at the corner of this road, on our property for over a year.  He never asked our permission, and has pile logs throughout that access road.  We are getting quite perturbed at his disrespect and rudeness.  We asked how much longer he needed that pile on the corner, and he sniply said, maybe this summer.  I have looked up laws on easement rights, and am trying to find this law he has told someone, that he can do what ever he wants 25 feet from the road because we dont own it.  We do own it, to our knowledge, we pay taxes to the center of the road, and the only one who owns the sides is the country we pay taxes to, not this person.  Can you help me understand where he may be geting his information from?  Thanks.

[Dad2FourWI]

In our neck of the woods, the road is 33 feet from center (so 66 feet total)

As far as I know, the township is the one who is ultimately responsible for that 66 feet - unless the road is a County Route, or a Highway, etc...

If a car runs off the road and hits a tree in that 33 feet, they can (and often do) go after the township legally.

Is that road a "real" road? Is it recognized by the township? Is is maintained/plowed/graded by the township?

Talk to your township board and feel them out a bit...

Just my .02 - hope they help,
-Dad2FourWI

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Best check with your local township officials or gov't to learn what the road right-of-way is, and what the logger can and cannot do. Each of our communities is prolly a bit different than yours. Good luck...

[Straightgrain]

Odly-enough, it's the crappy/lazy/grouchy/lousy/incongruent neighbors that make us better land owners. Some people try apease others by being nice/accomodating...it will only get worse. A land owner that truly wants to help their neighbors, teaches them with a stern will to respect the property of others.

I tried to handle my boundary challenges and encroachments myself for a couple years, then I called a lawyer.....word spread like wildfire. Sure, the lawyers made money off my neighbors, but the problems halted and I don't budge an inch (give mixed signals) any more.

A general rule of thumb is that anything that breaks the plane and enters the boundaries of private property, belongs to that land owner; such as a tree falling on a neighbor's house....

My advise is to call a lawyer.

Dealing with neighbors is part of owning land; keep your spirits up.

[barbender]

Here, we can't pile wood in a right of way unless we specifically get permission from the whatever government agency is in charge of it.

[Remle]

 Being an absentee land owner is tough, some people will just abuse others and this guy is doing that to you. He is just BSing you about this. First off, if he is saying the ROW is 25 ft, it is most likely a Town Road, past that if he owns the property or has permission to be their he may do as he wishes, although it does not give him any rights to your property. Your "Deed" to your property will tell you exactly what it is, most likely it is a 3 rod town road or 49.5 ft row, 24.75 ft each side of the centerline. He has No legal right other than to travel over it . I'd start by contacting the local highway authority, be it town or county, about the piling of logs in their ROW as a nuisance / danger to vehicle traffic on the road and have your lawyer send him a letter asking him to remove the logs piled on your property before some one hits one of those piles of logs or is injured in some other way. The term CYA comes to mind in this instance.

[wfcjr]

We own quite a bit of acreage in upstate NY.  I am trying to find the laws protecting our property from a logger.  There is an old country road boarding our entire, 1-mile length, of property.  The road is not abandoned, and it serves for a right of way for many camps in the back.  We have no problem with anyone, except this one camper/logger.  He logs his property and piles logs all over where ever he wants.  We had said we understand if the people want to widened or maintain a better road access, but also complained when more width was taken from our side than the other side/ower's side.  There has been logs piled at the corner of this road, on our property for over a year.  He never asked our permission, and has pile logs throughout that access road.  We are getting quite perturbed at his disrespect and rudeness.  We asked how much longer he needed that pile on the corner, and he sniply said, maybe this summer.  I have looked up laws on easement rights, and am trying to find this law he has told someone, that he can do what ever he wants 25 feet from the road because we dont own it.  We do own it, to our knowledge, we pay taxes to the center of the road, and the only one who owns the sides is the country we pay taxes to, not this person.  Can you help me understand where he may be geting his information from?  Thanks.

Is some or all of this right of way on your property?  Is is recorded on the deed to your property?
If it is, then there are local bodies of law that govern rights of way.

In most municipalities a right of way is precisely that... a right of way to gain access to properties that require the access.  Rights of way are not generally, rights of storage.  In other words they exist so that people can get in and get out... period.  They are not a right of storage.  In most municipalities, people cannot use a right of way to park stuff.  Also, in most municipalities, the rights of way are measured either in full width or to each side from a center line. In most cases, there is no such buffer where people can do whatever they want.

You have to check your deed for the precise description and precise language governing the right of way.
Then you have to check your local real estate laws & ordinances.  This may be as simple as a trip to the town office, or may involve getting a real estate attorney.  But you have to know the real law in order to deal with out-house lawyers like this logger.

Finally, as others have said, the only way to deal with this guy is firmly.  Being nice and not enforcing the letter of the law on the right of way will get you nowhere.

[Ron Scott]

Check with your local governing body to see who has jurisdiction for the road and what their right of way is and if they have issued a permit to the logger to deck wood within their legal right of way. If the wood is on your property without your permission, then the logger is in trespass and you can file suite against him. Contact an attorney if this is the case and the logger does not remove the wood after you have asked him to do so.

[dustyhat]

Put you up a sign saying . FREE CAMPFIRE WOOD. that will get some notice.

[Ljohnsaw]

Well, to add fuel to the fire (old saying), the wood that is on your property (in the ROW), is just that, on your property.  By placing it (illegally) there, I would call it a "gift" and I would sell it to a mill.

[WH_Conley]

Contact a Lawyer. The laws vary from state to state.

[CJPanko]

Thank you all for your time.  The town road was listed to be abandoned but not officially done.  It is/was a nice four-wheeling access to multiple camps' 25 miles of wilderness. This logger owns a lot of woods back there, and other camps have express desire to fix the potholes, etc' to which we did not mind as long as the ,property, line was preserved.  Now that he is logging his property, and says, its his driveway' right of way' and we don't own the 25 feet from center. NY law. But I told him, we pay tax to center of road, and only the town we pay tax to cab move our property on the side, not him.  He is illegally moving our property line.  I love the idea of FREE CAMPFIRE WOOD.
L so

[CJPanko]

I answered u in the wrong place, please scroll down

[Remle]

Thank you all for your time.  The town road was listed to be abandoned but not officially done.  It is/was a nice four-wheeling access to multiple camps' 25 miles of wilderness. This logger owns a lot of woods back there, and other camps have express desire to fix the potholes, etc' to which we did not mind as long as the ,property, line was preserved.  Now that he is logging his property, and says, its his driveway' right of way' and we don't own the 25 feet from center. NY law. But I told him, we pay tax to center of road, and only the town we pay tax to cab move our property on the side, not him.  He is illegally moving our property line.  I love the idea of FREE CAMPFIRE WOOD.
L so

Well it's time to put all BS aside, Timber Harvest on Private Lands - (518) 402-9425 - Bureau of Private Land Services in New York can answer all your questions, refer the problem to these people for the NY Law.. ;) ;)

[gimpy]

I don't know about your state but I have learned that the best thing I can do is a little internet or physical research to find the appropriate laws myself and read them until I understand them. That one piece of advise will give you clarity and a better ability to speak to offenders and to a lawyer if necessary. It also helps when dealing with municipalities.

In my neck of the woods, those trees would become my firewood. It'd only be required once.

[Ron Wenrich]

Who's responsible for road maintenance?  That will tell you a lot about "rights".  I have a right of way to my house.  It is also an abandoned township road.  My deed specifically says I have to maintain it.  I've kicked off people who thought that my road was their access.

[BargeMonkey]

 This is actually a very common issue in northern NY, ive worked on 3 private roads in the last yr which where not town owned or maintained, storing logs roadside 90% of the time. I would read the law that the other guy pointed out, but if its on your side of the road, right of way has nothing to do with it. A firm letter to move them, or a call to the sheriff and someone with a log truck would be my best bet. Your local town board or even a call to the NYSP could answer your question. Situations like this tend to get out of hand, is the person cutting the logs also the land owner or is it a landowner and seperate logger ?

[petefrom bearswamp]

Call the local NYS DEC office and explain the problem.
You can find the local office # on line.
DEC has a bureau called BECI (bureau of environmental Criminal investigation) that may be able to help.
I had their help on a small timber trespass/theft  about 10 yrs ago.
I believe that timber theft is part of their jurisdiction.
49.5 ft is the norm on those old 3 rod roads.
Road abandonment is a sticky issue in NYS.

[jocco]

Try the forestry department if they have one. Governing body for who ever has the roads. IF THE WOOD IS CLEARLY ON YOUR LAND HAVE IT TRUCKED TO MILL!!!! lOCAL LAND OWNER HAD OUTFIT PUTTING JUNK CARS AND OTHER STUFF ON HIS LAND HE CALLED SALVAGE 1 AND HAD IT HAULED (SCRAP METAL) THAT CAME TO AN END PRETTY QUICK!!!!!

[CJPanko]

This is actually a very common issue in northern NY, ive worked on 3 private roads in the last yr which where not town owned or maintained, storing logs roadside 90% of the time. I would read the law that the other guy pointed out, but if its on your side of the road, right of way has nothing to do with it. A firm letter to move them, or a call to the sheriff and someone with a log truck would be my best bet. Your local town board or even a call to the NYSP could answer your question. Situations like this tend to get out of hand, is the person cutting the logs also the land owner or is it a landowner and seperate logger ?

My land, and he is cutting my logs to widen the road. and putting his logs from his property on my property until he feels like moving them. 

[OneWithWood]

Contact the folks Remie listed asap. The more you delay the harder it will get.

[E fan]

If he's storing his so called logs on your place with out your consent ....well their your logs on your property you do what you want with them

[Ron Scott]

Yes, you need to exercise your rights soon.

[coxy]

look at both partys deeds some times if the land has been sold a few times some lawyers will drop things out like rows, spring rights ,go back to the 1800s  if need to and look at the deeds that's what I do when there is a issue I found out one time that there was deeded swimming rights to my land owner for the pond next door this was in 1905 but it was not in the new deed

[BargeMonkey]

  Im headed to a job shortly with a similar issue involving the NYC DEP and use of a private road for public access. So this guy is cutting wood on your side of the road, storing logs on you and claiming he is in the right ? I would have been locked up already down here with my picture in the paper.  :D  what county are you in ?