Some automotive engineers...

Dave Shepard · May 22, 2015, 09:43:41 PM

....are a discredit to their profession, have no conscience and should be catapulted to the moon. I had to put a new fan relay on a '99 Grand Cherokee. The dealer way is to remove the entire front of the Jeep and swap the little part. That would have been about four hours and countless twisted off bolts and screws. The YouTube cheater way is to remove one screw from the right headlight and chop a hole through the plastic bumper cover. I popped the light out and found a nice hole already chopped. That got the repair down to under ten minutes, including trying to find an 11/32" socket that would work in place of the proper metric that was missing. :D Relay wasn't bad. >:( Tracked it down to a bad electric fan. Picked up a tested one at the junk yard and thought I'd pop it in, it's only three screws after all. No, you don't just pop it in. Those three screws are facing the radiator with about 1/2" clearance. You have to remove the fan shroud. Four bolts, no waiting. Wrong again. Only one of those bolts is accessible without removing the steering box, frame, engine, glove box and at least one of the taillights. I figured that if I took the bolts out of the radiator, I could tip it forward enough to get a wrench on the shroud bolts. Not a bad idea, if I do say so myself. All you have to do is take the entire front of the Jeep off to get to them, but that should be easy, because you just did that to change the relay that wasn't bad. Or did you cheat and go to YouTube to find out where to chop a hole in to get to the top-secret-under-the-bumper-cover-Dick-Cheney-command-bunker? Yeah, I did that too. Dick was long gone, but there were plenty of WWII Army surplus spam and crackers in there. :D After locating the T30 Torx driver you can get about half of the grill screws out. Phillips for the rest. A 10mm here, a 13mm there, and about 14" of ratchet extensions, you have the bolts out of the radiator and it's flopping all over in there. You can actually get a wrench on the shroud bolts and there might be a chance of getting the fan switched. Well, time to go out and see if the new fan is the right one. The suspense is just killing me.

sandhills · May 22, 2015, 10:02:13 PM

Yeah, I really miss my old '79 Ford.

sawguy21 · May 22, 2015, 10:35:10 PM

SEVEN HOURS is the time quoted to replace the heater servo motors (which are prone to failure) in the 05 Ram. According to you-tube I can do it in under two hours if I am willing to perform a little surgery. Why do these jobs have to be so DanG difficult?

Jeff · May 22, 2015, 10:36:31 PM

To change a headlight bulb in Tammy's malibu, you have to take off the entire front bumper/spoiler/shroud assembly of the car, and it takes about an hour. Over $100 labor to have the headlight bulb replaced if you take it to the dealer. (We don't) I can remove all the front lights and the grill completely from my 99 silverado in less than 5 minutes.

Dave Shepard · May 22, 2015, 10:55:57 PM

I'm forfeiting the first round to the Jeep. I have to drain the radiator to take the upper hose off. Tomorrow is another day.

Bruno of NH · May 23, 2015, 07:58:49 AM

Dave,
2007 gmc pickup one head light you need to take the hole air box out to change it eats one every 3 months.
Same truck needs new rear spring at 3 years old you need to drop the gas tank to get out the front bolts on the drivers side.
Drivers door latch breaks they tell me i need a new door panel $650.00 just for part fix it myself with out new door panel $200.00

They make the big bucks :D :D :D
Jim/Bruno

r.man · May 23, 2015, 08:39:08 AM

I think that I have at least two good general rules for the world but the world doesn't agree. The first is that if an agency wants to control or inspect some aspect of our lives, say water quality in public areas, then they have to pay for it out of their own budget not user fees, and anyone in the private sector that must participate can bill their regular hourly rate to the agency. The second is that engineers who design things have to be able to repair them in a timely manner or the design won't get approved. So if a headlight swap takes ten minutes in an average car, the new design had better take about ten minutes or you should be looking for a new profession.

I have a habit of chopping off useless crap that is getting in the way of repairing something necessary.

Holmes · May 23, 2015, 08:43:26 AM

Dave you need to upgrade your fleet to Older vehicles.

bill m · May 23, 2015, 08:46:38 AM

The heater blend door on our 2005 Jeep is broken. 1999 to 2004 there is an aftermarket fix, less then $100 for parts and about an hour of labor. Not so for the 2005. Dealer estimate is $150 for the part, $1500 for 3 days of labor. The whole dash needs to be removed.

sawguy21 · May 23, 2015, 12:31:52 PM

That is what the dealer says for our 05 Ram. There has to be an easier (and cheaper) way.

snowstorm · May 23, 2015, 12:54:45 PM

i have a ford that had trouble with the blend door. the foam that was on it to seal better some of it had come off and wouldnt let it close all the way. rather than take everything apart i sprayed it with a little carb cleaner. dissolved the foam that was caught in the door motor. works fine now

kderby · May 23, 2015, 02:04:16 PM

I know it would never survive EPA, safety or the follow-up lawsuits, I do dream of a simple functional transport mechanism. Grampy had a jeep, purchased of the dock in Boston after world war two. That thing worked in the orchard as a planting, mowing, pruning, spraying harvest and hunting rig. No electric windows or computer chips were needed.

I remember Volkswagon had a tin can called The Thing. The days that would seem to be The Solution!

KD

r.man · May 23, 2015, 02:22:02 PM

I dream of driving something pre 70s again because I know how to diagnose and fix them.

coxy · May 23, 2015, 06:09:20 PM

Quote from: r.man on May 23, 2015, 08:39:08 AM

I have a habit of chopping off useless crap that is getting in the way of repairing something necessary.

:D :D :D :D :D :D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) same here but some times I go way to far and other things don't work ;D

sawguy21 · May 23, 2015, 08:20:12 PM

I had a 1990 Dodge W150 that had a rattle under the dash. Never did anything with it until the heater control cable broke. I removed the glove box to fix that and discovered an electrical connector hanging around doing nothing. I plugged it in to a black box, pulled on it, it obviously didn't fall out. Somebody had unplugged the computer probably in an effort to improve performance.
Now a display appeared on the dash when the key was on, the ABS worked, and I actually got noticeably better gas mileage plus the rattle disappeared. A running problem during really cold weather also went away. At least I could fix some stuff on that one unlike the current ride.

SPIKER · May 23, 2015, 10:00:37 PM

I'm working a lot of OT and have several "NEW" and "YET TO BE" engineers around me. This week we got a new batch from the local university and I took one out to "HELP" with a change on a DC control board on a hunk of shop equipment. He said he had to get to meet his adviser in 3 hrs (no problem it is a 20 min job I thought.) :

:

Yep kid who is 3rd year Electrical Engineering Student couldn't figure out how to operate a standard pair of wire strippers. (Yes the box was a disaster so I wanted to clean it up and have it wired properly.) So almost 2 hrs later he HAS to leave & still only about have done... I told him point blank that as an engineer you HAVE to make things easy to fix when it breaks kid should be ashamed for not knowing how to do simple task but then at 3rd year so should the university for having let him get that far and NOT know how to do something as simple as solder or strip a hunk of wire...

>:( >:(

Mark

repmma · May 24, 2015, 06:37:55 AM

Exactly why I have a '78 F150 and a 2000 Tacoma. Ford is easy. Tacoma just doesn't need anything even at 207k.

It's not limited to just Automotive Engineers. Naval architects have their own fair share of yahoos that didn't concern themselves with maintaining the equipment. I've got radiator cooled engines (only morons would put radiators on anything but emergency engines on a ship) that require complete removal of the outboard one to access the inboard unit. It's only a good 3 day job. With a crew of 4 on it.

The office engineers get a slight say in designing any new build... think they ever ask us? Obviously not, what does the guy in the field with grease on his hands know!!?

WDH · May 24, 2015, 08:00:29 AM

Quote from: bill m on May 23, 2015, 08:46:38 AM
The heater blend door on our 2005 Jeep is broken. 1999 to 2004 there is an aftermarket fix, less then $100 for parts and about an hour of labor. Not so for the 2005. Dealer estimate is $150 for the part, $1500 for 3 days of labor. The whole dash needs to be removed.

The heater blend doors on my 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee are broken. All 4 windows failed and dropped into the door because of a cheap plastic clip that broke. I have bought my last Jeep.

dgdrls · May 24, 2015, 09:03:59 AM

New cars are engineering marvels, unfortunately fixing them easily is not a design priority.
Proprietary software, multiple computers, miles of wiring, sensors and sleek packaging has made 300+ HP
high MPG a reality. So it seems the trade-off is ease of maintenance.
Makes trading them in sooner and staying inside a warranty more appealing
especially if you live in an area that uses salt on the roads.

DGDrls

Bruno of NH · May 24, 2015, 09:51:26 AM

I think they do it that way so you get mad and trade .
But that cost a lot of money .
Jim/Bruno

Roger2561 · May 24, 2015, 03:00:35 PM

Quote from: SPIKER on May 23, 2015, 10:00:37 PM
I'm working a lot of OT and have several "NEW" and "YET TO BE" engineers around me. This week we got a new batch from the local university and I took one out to "HELP" with a change on a DC control board on a hunk of shop equipment. He said he had to get to meet his adviser in 3 hrs (no problem it is a 20 min job I thought.) : : : Yep kid who is 3rd year Electrical Engineering Student couldn't figure out how to operate a standard pair of wire strippers. (Yes the box was a disaster so I wanted to clean it up and have it wired properly.) So almost 2 hrs later he HAS to leave & still only about have done... I told him point blank that as an engineer you HAVE to make things easy to fix when it breaks kid should be ashamed for not knowing how to do simple task but then at 3rd year so should the university for having let him get that far and NOT know how to do something as simple as solder or strip a hunk of wire... >:( >:(

Mark

I work at an Ivy League institution where varying disciplines of engineering is taught. One of the first courses the students must take is basic hand tools course. Believe it or not they are taught how to use a screwdriver, open end wrenches, basic soldering skills, etc... things we were taught by our dads not a college course. A lot of the students are from families of privilege where they were not taught what these things are or what they do. However, put them in front of a computer it's a different story. Roger

luvmexfood · May 24, 2015, 07:53:27 PM

The high schools in our county quit teaching a shop class a few years ago. In it you learned basic electricity like how to replace/wire a light switch or plug. Basic woodworking and welding plus a little agriculture. Much needed skills for any person to learn.

Delawhere Jack · May 25, 2015, 07:56:35 PM

Quote from: WDH on May 24, 2015, 08:00:29 AM
Quote from: bill m on May 23, 2015, 08:46:38 AM
The heater blend door on our 2005 Jeep is broken. 1999 to 2004 there is an aftermarket fix, less then $100 for parts and about an hour of labor. Not so for the 2005. Dealer estimate is $150 for the part, $1500 for 3 days of labor. The whole dash needs to be removed.

The heater blend doors on my 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee are broken. All 4 windows failed and dropped into the door because of a cheap plastic clip that broke. I have bought my last Jeep.

Dave and Danny. Dump those Grand Cherokees and find yourselves one of the old plain Cherokees. Worlds apart in reliability and ease to work on. And they've got the old Rambler straight six which is DanG'd near impossible to kill.

Delawhere Jack · May 25, 2015, 08:00:56 PM

BIL had a 2010 Dodge Ram 3500 crew cab, full bed, 4x4 turbo diesel, rolling luxury condo on wheels. The turn signal in the drivers side mirror burned out. Dealership told him they'd have to replace the entire mirror assembly. $1,000. No way to replace just the bulb. It didn't need it to pass inspection so he said never mind.

Dave Shepard · May 25, 2015, 08:09:35 PM

I have no complaints about the Jeep otherwise. We've had a few of them and really like them. I think most vehicles have their highs and lows. On a different note, I discovered that there was no air filter in this vehicle. Maintained regularly by the same shop my family has been using for over 40 years.