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survey!!! diesel or gas??? lt40 owners and others

Started by bkaimwood, May 21, 2015, 08:32:57 AM

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bkaimwood

Simple question for my experienced friends...is the diesel option really worth the extra $4k? I saw big ugly stuff. I know there's lots of fellas here with a lot of experience, and hour meters to prove it. My guess the largest percentage of u guys are running gas...I also guess there's a large percentage running lt40's. You guys tell me what's the skinny? Thank you!!!
bk

drobertson

I never have ran a gasoline engine, so I guess I have no clear answer.  I am happy with my diesel, bout like the folks with their gas engines I suppose, they all make lumber,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Chuck White

I feel that the diesel engine option will pay for itself over time in ways other than the just $$$$ saved in fuel consumption.

The actual fuel consumption (gallons) is usually less than gas and the power curve is different too.

But I have the 25hp Kohler and I'm happy with it.
                    ^edit^
It keeps driving the blade and making lumber.

edit: I had 35 there instead of the (correct) 25.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Percy

Since 2003, Ive run a Kubota on my LT70. Prior to that, I had a 35hp gas Wisconsin on an LT40 for 6 years. The diesel is stingier and gives less grief than the gas wisconsin. But they both had/have more than enough power for the softwoods I mainly cut.Its a matter of choice/wallet... heh....
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

sealark37

The dollar to dollar comparison is useless unless you know how much you are going to saw.  Used on a daily basis, the diesel will be a much more suitable power source.  If you only crank er up when you need a few boards, the gas option is by far the best.  On a circle mill, an old gas engine will drink all your profit, while a diesel will make you money. Regards, Clark

uler3161

I've never ran a diesel mill, but I suspect I'd like it a bit more than my gas. However, I get pretty decent production. If I were just starting out with no equipment, I'd probably put that 4k into a used forklift instead.
1989 LT40HD, WoodMaster 718

Dan

grweldon

My mill has a 25HP Kohler and I'm satisfied with it.  That being said, I would prefer that it is diesel for the single fact that I store about 300 gallons of diesel on the premises for farm use and it stores well.  Gasoline does not store well.  As for the extra $4K, If I were using this mill as my sole means of providing for my family, I would opt for diesel.  I could NEVER justify it at the present time as I only saw for myself.
My three favorite documents: The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States.

CharlieA

I've got the 29hp Kohler on my LT40.  I like it, mind you I am not a production cutter.  I suspect it would fair well if I upped my board count.  Diesel would have been my first choice, but for my circumstance, the added cost didn't justify it.

On another note, I have many hours on an electric bandmill.  Now there's power!
Good, Fast, Cheap... Pick 2.

ladylake

 
At $2.80 a gallon you should get your money back in fuel savings alone in 3000 hours plus saw faster in big wood. If your going to use it a lot get the diesel.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bkaimwood

Thanks fellas...I was hoping everyone would say they run gas and its great, and that diesel isn't worth the price tag...no so much...thanks to everyone, especially the guys that reminded me that big gas engines are gas guzzlers to say the least...my own stupidity to not factor in BFPG in the equation, but its a big deal...I put 5 gallons of fuel in my current home made diesel mill and it runs FOREVER...
bk

woodmills1

Gas has issues.  Diesel air and fuel.  Lotta torque
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

hunz

Had a lt-35 with the 25hp gas Kohler; it would drink about 7 gallons in a full day of sawing. The 51hp diesel perkapillar I have now will burn 5 gallons sawing for 8 hours straight, and put out a whole lot more lumber to boot. We just picked up a new SCAG mower for the farm with a 35hp Briggs vanguard engine on her. 8 hours of mowing burns.......i mean guzzles 11-12 gallons a day. If you have the dough get a diesel, if it really stretches the budget just roll with a gas, they'll still get the job done.
Dream as if you'll saw forever; saw as if you'll die today.



2006 Woodmizer LT40D51RA, Husqvarna 372xp, Takeuchi TL140

Percy

GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Brucer

Both my mills had/have 28 HP fuel-injected Kohlers. Based on my experience with the first mill, I figured I couldn't use more power and didn't seen any advantage to the diesel. I was wrong.

Based on what I know now, the diesel is better than gas for production sawing (electric is best). If you hit a large knot or denser wood, you do not want the blade to slow down -- otherwise you'll get a ripple in the cut. Diesel is better than gas for delivering the extra torque to get through the tough wood, without slowing down too much.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

woodmills1

my edger has the 28 injected Kohler nice nice engine
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Verticaltrx

Something else that may be a consideration is what tier IV emissions standards and ultra-low sulfur fuel is doing to the diesel engine industry. I assume sawmills also have to meet these standards, and in the trucks and tractors what they are doing now isn't pretty. Things have become way over complicated and over priced on these new motors, not to mention the extra maintenance. I find it interesting that many of the companies that run big fleets of trucks like Asplundh and the local power companies have been going back to gas trucks in recent years. Ford is reintroducing the gas engine option in their medium-duty trucks to meet this demand. The ultra-low sulfur diesel is another problem, from the lack of lubricity to much greater problems with gelling, but I guess we all have to deal with that now.

Now, does all that translate to sawmills, I don't know. But if they have to have DPF, DEF, computer controlled fuel management, etc on the new diesel mills that would be a real downfall to me, again, expensive and overcomplicated. Just something else to look at, fuel economy and torque aren't the only things to consider....


Wood-Mizer LT15G19

bandmiller2

It all breaks down to projected use for power plants and sharpening equipment, hobby occasional running use gas engine and resharp. Sawing for hire, diesel and sharpening equipment will pay you back. If you can go electric it whoops them all. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Chuck White

Quote from: bkaimwood on May 21, 2015, 06:08:14 PM
Thanks fellas...I was hoping everyone would say they run gas and its great, and that diesel isn't worth the price tag...no so much...thanks to everyone, especially the guys that reminded me that big gas engines are gas guzzlers to say the least...my own stupidity to not factor in BFPG in the equation, but its a big deal...I put 5 gallons of fuel in my current home made diesel mill and it runs FOREVER...

About 3 weeks ago, I sawed out a bunch of White Pine and White Cedar for a customer at his location.

I sawed just over 3,300 board feet of a mixed lot of 1" and 2" stuff, about half and half, and use 5¼ gallons of gas.

I don't use the 87 octane, but opt for the 91 octane, no ethenol.  I think it's like running "hi-test" in your car, you get better mileage, same as my 25hp Kohler does.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Ox

Chuck - I learned the hard way it's much more profitable to pay the extra for the high test, ethanol free gas these days.  I didn't have a single thing that didn't start this spring after switching off the ethanol gas.  I'm very happy!  No down time, stress, frustration, etc. 
Last year EVERYTHING had to be torn down and cleaned to get rid of the white and green fuzz that likes to grow in our carburetors with the ethanol.  Bad stuff.

I agree with all the other comments.  For stationary production, electric is best.  For mobil production, diesel is best.  For hobby and lower end stuff, gasoline.  Of course there's exceptions to every rule.
For me, if it runs well and pulls the blade in a given situation, it's the perfect choice no matter what it is.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

YellowHammer

Quote from: bkaimwood on May 21, 2015, 08:32:57 AM
Simple question for my experienced friends...is the diesel option really worth the extra $4k?
Yes. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

zopi

My fuzzy math says..if you will saw very frequently amd cutting alot of material...especially if you are going to saw 8 hrs a day in business. Smart money is on the diesel.  The doesel will pay for itself in longevity and fuel economy in relatively short time.

Hobby sawing? Biggest gas option you can afford.
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

Dave Shepard

Is this on a standard LT40 or a Super LT40? I always go diesel if I can, gas being such a pain these days. You just have to do the math. Initial investment, return on the investment in both actual dollars and reduced maintenance.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

fishpharmer

From what I have seen, you will recoup some of initial expense of diesel engine (if well cared for) when selling the mill later.  Higher resale value.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

terrifictimbersllc

42HP Kubota diesel, LT40 super, only run out of 5 gal diesel on maybe a 10+hour day, carry an extra tank with me.  I suppose it might matter which diesel engine you get but I would not consider a gas engine on a new mill purchase sawing for business.   Another thing not mentioned is the reduced fire hazard and not having to be pouring gasoline during the day.  Also peace of mind to have the sawmill diesel containers with me when I'm pushing empty on my diesel truck.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

ozarkgem

Quote from: woodmills1 on May 21, 2015, 10:18:27 PM
Gas has issues.  Diesel air and fuel.  Lotta torque
Every thing I own that won't start has a gas engine. All my diesels fire right up. You just have to weigh the cost difference.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

WoodenHead

The first mill that I had (LT28) was a diesel.  I liked it.  Now I have a 29HP Kohler gas on the LT40.  The power curve isn't the same, but what I do like is that it starts much easier in the winter.  I saw a bit in the winter time, so starting in cold temps is important to me.

octam1

Best 3 things I like about the diesels would be the fuel consumption, engine will last longer with less maintenance & the fact that they have the torque to bog less when pushed hard resulting in less waves from the blades slowing down on wider/knotty cuts... The diesels will hold a higher resale value down the road as well... Here in California we have to keep them under 55hp to not have to register them with the era tho...
KnottHead Custom Sawing & FabWorx
Ceres/Twain Harte CA.

WoodMizer LT40SHDG38 w/AS2 & Debarker
Lucas 8-20 Swinger w/60" Slabber & Planer
Solar/Dehumidifier Kiln in the worx
Stihl - 2x 026's, 044, 046, 2x 066, MS660, 2x 088 & 3x 075AV

thechknhwk


bkaimwood

I had my heart set on a lt40 diesel...there are a bunch of good mill companies out there, a few worth considering, and a few not worth considering... I don't want to throw a manufacturer debate into this thread, or put anyone up or down, but, for me, woodmizer and timberking are the 2 tops. Like debated in this forum many times, they both make great mills, and its pretty much the ole ford v Chevy. I am taking a hard look at the TK 1600...the biggest reason for considering one over a WM, is cutting throat size/capability...As I mentioned earlier, I cut a lot of big and ugly stuff, and TK has 32" between the guides, WM 28"... 4" is a huge difference to me...and its almost $4k less...the biggest downfall is the diesel option is only 25 HP...probably enough? The WM diesel is almost 35% bigger...some smaller issues which don't matter to me...the 1600 has manual jack toeboards...which if you are looking to quarter saw or hit dead center on a tapered log, you are going up to the front to measure anyway, so at that point, its actually better to have it there where you are working...the other thing is log stops aren't hydro...but flip up with a lever from the control station...your right there anyway, who cares...last downfall is TK wacks me 2200 bucks delivery, I'm in PA...so that takes a significant hit out of the savings..love the TK 2000, but now way out the with price....I guess y'all have to help find me a low hour, used, diesel mill...one of the ones mentioned above...and one that the seller isn't wanting almost new price for it! Thanks fellas!!
bk

beenthere

QuoteI guess y'all have to help find me a low hour, used, diesel mill...one of the ones mentioned above...and one that the seller isn't wanting almost new price for it!

Put that in the "wanted" section and see the terms for supporting the forum. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

JB Griffin

Diesel all the way ;D But I am just slightly biased. I only drive diesel pickups, only use diesel tractors, and now only run a diesel mill.
Had 25hp kohler on my first mill and hated that gutless wonder, I musta got a bad one, easy on gas though bout 4gal per 6hrs sawing, but the 33hp Kubota on my LT40 will do at least as good and much more power=faster cuts.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

scsmith42

Add my support to the diesel camp.  I have gas on two mills (one is a slabber) and diesel on Tom.  Hands down diesel is the most efficient and has more torque.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Gasawyer

Old days gas was a viable option (1997) verses the diesel of the day. But now diesel over the gas options at least for woodmizer. I run a 97 LT 40 super with Wisconsin v-4 and love it no issues with engine burns about 10 gals of gas in 8hr day. 1800 hours and approx 1.2 million bf. cut a lot of beaming in the past.
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

bkaimwood

Well, the new mill has almost 40 hours on it now, and despite a few hiccups, I love it!!! The advice for the diesel option, as suspected, was spot on. It gets INSANE board foot per gallon, and has tons of torque...not much slows it down.  It is helping me resolve a few issues I had before...I had complained I only get anywhere from 1/2 a day to a day or two a week to saw, and that if I was going to get anywhere and not work backwards, I needed something that could do some production...and that it has done. When I bought it, my barn I built last December had a roof...and that's all...in the small spare time slots I have or make, I've sawed AND sawed all the boards for my board and batten siding on the 3 main walls, so I'm staying a bit drier and out of the wind of the summer thunderstorms... Next, close in the gables, cut and install battens, and plan my door set up for the fourth wall...may be awhile, but I'll get there...unfortunately, have only done 2 portable jobs, and the first on never paid the balance on his bill...have sawed some orders with it also, from b and b siding, to a white oak picnic tables, to a bunch of other small things. I have 2 more portable jobs to do...one sometime in the fall, and one end of next week...one pays, one doesn't... Not right away...I bought a cherry tree with a trunk over 20", with 3 decent logs...the owner has agreed to let me saw them up on site where the tree service dropped them, to keep operating costs down, instead of hauling logs then sawing. Other cool stuff I've sawed with it include: a 32" walnut log 12 feet long that made nice slabs, the widest live edge to just under 28"... And an ambrosia maple log that was 39".. Lots of nice slabs and boards there...some nice walnut crotch slabs...with more to come, as I took the whole tree of both species...the phone is slow and near dead, so I hope everyone takes all the other posts on buying a new mill, and/or starting a new business VERY seriously... If I had counted on only this to make a living, I'd have a tough time making next months mill payment, and would not have eaten much lately. I am going through the usual routes and avenues to improve this, and maybe one day make the full transition I dream of. I'm optimistic, but like everyone says, its hard and takes a long time...but I'm fairly prepared...losing my helper will hurt, but I will hopefully find another one someday...more to come with pics soon...the pic part is hard cuz I'm always mobile, and this forum does not like phones for pictures. Thank you all for your advice and support...
bk

Magicman

Now how about updating your profile with your new sawmill. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

gww


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