1978 clark 664

vatkins · May 17, 2015, 06:47:33 AM

Hi everyone, I'm new to here and the new owner of a Clark 664 skidder. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice, do'd and don'ts about this machine? Can chains be ran on the front tires? I noticed there's on about 1" of clearance between the blade arm and tire? How well do the rear ends hold up? looks like the axle housing have all been welded on the outer ends which leads me to think i should beef them up before using. Thanks again for advice

rockwall · May 17, 2015, 07:43:57 AM

You will soon learn that there are a few of us on here that love the 664s. I own a 1977 and am really impressed with what work they can do. Parts are available and guys with all kinds of knowledge about them. Welcome.

mad murdock · May 17, 2015, 09:30:03 AM

Welcome vatkins. I havent owned a 664 but i have ran one in the woods a fair bit. They are a wood getting animal! The one i ran had a 353 Detroit and an Allison auto trans in it. It was real stable and was an awesome machine! Update your location in your profile, you may well discover a few FF members nearby.

treeslayer2003 · May 17, 2015, 10:33:01 AM

Quote from: mad murdock on May 17, 2015, 09:30:03 AM
Welcome vatkins. I havent owned a 664 but i have ran one in the woods a fair bit. They are a wood getting animal! The one i ran had a 353 Detroit and an Allison auto trans in it. It was real stable and was an awesome machine! Update your location in your profile, you may well discover a few FF members nearby.

allison? i bet not. only ever seen them with a clark power shift.

op most clark rears i have seen have that weld on them from factory. they are very durable as long as you keep them full of grease and don't winch with a tire against a tree.
much stronger than the rockwell rears. be sure and check the planetary s, they will not get lube from the rear.

oldseabee · May 17, 2015, 11:24:56 AM

Keep the planetaries and the axle diff full, the oil will transfer back and forth so have the machine level when checking the oil.

vatkins · May 17, 2015, 08:10:01 PM

The axle housings are good then? They look smallish as if a solid bump could break the wheel off. The hydraulic break has been torched off the drive shaft and the caliper is missing. I plan on machining a plate, welding it to the drive shaft and bolting a rotor to it off a common pickup then configuring the caliper mounting. The master cylinder is there. How are they to rebuild? My other big concern is that the front tires are so close to the blade arms that I cant run front chains. does that sound normal? The dish in the rims are on the widest setting. The Skidder is missing studs on all wheels (1 or 2) per wheel. The left front has 2 missing because the plate that holds the studs is broken. Is that cast or steel? or how could I fix that? I'm good at welding and machining if that helps. Thanks again everyone

treeslayer2003 · May 17, 2015, 09:45:55 PM

Quote from: vatkins on May 17, 2015, 08:10:01 PM
The axle housings are good then? They look smallish as if a solid bump could break the wheel off. The hydraulic break has been torched off the drive shaft and the caliper is missing. I plan on machining a plate, welding it to the drive shaft and bolting a rotor to it off a common pickup then configuring the caliper mounting. The master cylinder is there. How are they to rebuild? My other big concern is that the front tires are so close to the blade arms that I cant run front chains. does that sound normal? The dish in the rims are on the widest setting. The Skidder is missing studs on all wheels (1 or 2) per wheel. The left front has 2 missing because the plate that holds the studs is broken. Is that cast or steel? or how could I fix that? I'm good at welding and machining if that helps. Thanks again everyone

lets just say i prefer clark axles over any other. they are not small or weak, its just that the hub is big and makes the tube look small.
most older skidders with the drum brake have it removed as it is a fire hazard. you are right on track imo on the rotor caliper set up, its open so debris don't collect in it as bad.
some of the newer tires as well as ag tires seem to be wider, same thing happened when i put newer tires on mine......i don't run chains so no help to ya there.
the hub may be cast steel, not sure on that, it could be iron. the studs can be replaced with out removing the wheel. take off the nut on the back side of the hub and knock the broken one out through the wheel. install a new one in the reverse then put on the wheel nut.
you could prolly use any master cylinder with some bracket fabrication.

vatkins · May 18, 2015, 08:42:05 PM

Thanks for the reassurance that the Axles are tough. I'll try to get pictures up of the skidder when I get it home. I like keeping everything fixed up and working right hence the questions. Im gonna have to figure out how to run chains on the front for the steep ground I'll be on. Hope this is allowed, my cell # is 802 349 3993. I can send pic's much easier with it and like text better than use the computer. sad i know. Thanks again for all advice and i'm sure by the sounds I'll fall hard for this Skidder

so il logger · May 19, 2015, 12:39:46 AM

I would not throw my cell number out there like that, If a you think a member may be able to help you more by talking one on one then I recommend sending a P.M. to said member and offer your phone number that way. Just saying because this is a open forum and anyone can see your post's. BTW where are you located? Oh and welcome to the forum

vatkins · June 03, 2015, 09:42:33 PM

So I've finally got my the 664 B home !!! I removed the blade-steering lever and made new chrome plated bushing for the B1616 needle bearings to ride on and drilled and tapped for a 1/4 28 grease fitting so the bearings are now grease able! Then I got to looking. I went to see another 664B to. 3 of the axle tubes on the skidder I have have indeed been broke. The front axle has been broke out of the cradle once and rewelded. both blade arms have been broke in half and reweleded to. The axles have been welded back together just behind the shield for the hub seal. I also went ahead and pulled the plugs on the planetary 's and discovered the right front covered with metal. I pulled the center cap and discovered a bent washer between it and the end of the axle. then pulled the other front cap. wow totally different but looks right. looks like some replaced the piece the goes in the cap with a washer of some kind. I can thankfully machine the cap and fix it up with a heavier thrust plate if thats what its called? wondering about specs on that? more bad news is that some bolts were missing in the outer ring of bolts and further inspection told me they are welded in and the hub and (not sure what the piece is called) but the bolts go thur it are welded together. Thank god I can machine. I also learned the lever between your legs is to put the transmission in neutral . mine has been cut off flush with floor pan and the linkage is gone. I'll keep posting progress or findings. Hopefully I can figure out posting pictures. I'll bring this skidder back !

treeslayer2003 · June 03, 2015, 10:06:44 PM

not 100% sure what your talking about........the axle tube has been welded or the axle inside has been welded? the planetary has been welded to the hub? wow.

that lever is not how you put it in neutral, it is how you put the machine in travel range. every clark i ever saw it is disconnected because it is almost impossible to control the machine at the speed it run in travel range and some people just have to try it. you have neutral in every trans selector lever, directional and hi/lo.

rockwall · June 04, 2015, 06:13:27 AM

If you go to the HOME page of this Forum and scroll down to almost the bottom of the page you will see some very good instructions " How to post Photos".

vatkins · June 04, 2015, 11:05:40 PM

Today I remachined the planetary cover where the thrust plate sits for the axle. I made a new thrust plate/washer and pressed it into place. I tried to to bolt the cover back on and discovered the reason why someone had put a thin washer in the place of the thrust plate. The cover doesn't match the other 3. So now I need to remove the new thrust plate and counter bore the cover another .200 thousands deeper. 3 covers have only one plug in the them and the odd one has 2 plugs, one in the center and one just below. Has anyone ever seen the outer ring of bolts broke, missing or drilled out bigger that hold the planetary's in the hub? one hub is all 1/2'' bolts another is all 3/4 bolts and the fronts are 1/2" 5/8", 3/4 or mostly broke and welded instead. I was able to get the winch lever control all rebushed and made new linkage for it!

John Woodworth · June 04, 2015, 11:25:46 PM

One thing I would pay attention to if I where you is the brake hydraulics, had the engine die on a triple 6 and the brakes went out and down the hill it went backwards, fortunately a tree stopped it, check an referbish the brake hydraulics just to be on the safe side.

treeslayer2003 · June 05, 2015, 12:47:04 AM

Quote from: vatkins on June 04, 2015, 11:05:40 PM
Today I remachined the planetary cover where the thrust plate sits for the axle. I made a new thrust plate/washer and pressed it into place. I tried to to bolt the cover back on and discovered the reason why someone had put a thin washer in the place of the thrust plate. The cover doesn't match the other 3. So now I need to remove the new thrust plate and counter bore the cover another .200 thousands deeper. 3 covers have only one plug in the them and the odd one has 2 plugs, one in the center and one just below. Has anyone ever seen the outer ring of bolts broke, missing or drilled out bigger that hold the planetary's in the hub? one hub is all 1/2'' bolts another is all 3/4 bolts and the fronts are 1/2" 5/8", 3/4 or mostly broke and welded instead. I was able to get the winch lever control all rebushed and made new linkage for it!

what your saying dosen't make much sense to me......they should all be 1/2" bolts. pics would make this easier.

vatkins · June 05, 2015, 09:48:34 PM

Quote from: treeslayer2003 on June 05, 2015, 12:47:04 AM
Quote from: vatkins on June 04, 2015, 11:05:40 PM
Today I remachined the planetary cover where the thrust plate sits for the axle. I made a new thrust plate/washer and pressed it into place. I tried to to bolt the cover back on and discovered the reason why someone had put a thin washer in the place of the thrust plate. The cover doesn't match the other 3. So now I need to remove the new thrust plate and counter bore the cover another .200 thousands deeper. 3 covers have only one plug in the them and the odd one has 2 plugs, one in the center and one just below. Has anyone ever seen the outer ring of bolts broke, missing or drilled out bigger that hold the planetary's in the hub? one hub is all 1/2'' bolts another is all 3/4 bolts and the fronts are 1/2" 5/8", 3/4 or mostly broke and welded instead. I was able to get the winch lever control all rebushed and made new linkage for it!
what your saying dosen't make much sense to me......they should all be 1/2" bolts. pics would make this easier.

vatkins · June 05, 2015, 10:21:26 PM

Hey guys I guess I just don't get this site and posting pics. I managed to get a gallery but that's it. The instruction video was blurry and no help to me. I'm slow on the computer but usually good with my I-phone. I can send pics with it if anyone wants but am not sure on rules of trading #'s. Mine is in a earlier post thou n I'd be happy to send pic that way. I'll keep trying to get what ever it is I'm missing but am ready to forget it soon. Today I pulled the master cylinder, the rear drive shaft so I can machine a plate to mount a rotor and pulled the parking brake, rebuilt it and put it back. Also changed a hose. Noticed the bearing is wiped in the bottom fair leed roll so looks like I'll be making a new roll 😷

celliott · June 05, 2015, 10:37:20 PM

Vatkins, I noticed from your cell # you're in Vermont. Whereabouts?
Welcome to the forum, always good to see more Vermonters on here.

You already got the pictures into your gallery, it's easy to post them here now. Go to the picture in your gallery, and below the picture there is a line of code you can copy and paste into the "reply" box.

treeslayer2003 · June 05, 2015, 10:46:45 PM

vatkins i wouldn't worry to much about the welded axle tubes, that looks fine. not sure what caused the axle to wear into the planetary cap. it looks like in one pic the hub is broke out and a couple lug bolts won't be there.....how many? two wouldn't stop me, three or more would concern me.

vatkins · June 06, 2015, 07:12:17 AM

I'm located in Lincoln vt. I do maching and fabricating for the a A Johnson lumber co. The Skidder came out of NH. Near Keene. The planetary cap that was wearing is slightly different than the other 3. It's longer in the center by about .200" I'm going to trim it down in the lathe and it should be fine. I'm missing 2 lugs in the hub. I'm thinking the hub is a cast steel? I can easily fix it with some welding and maching if so. The hard thing is that someone welded the planetary's out plate to the hub.😪 that's fixable to but will take me hours to get apart . Is the master cylinder worth rebuilding? Also how pricey are packing kits for the steer cylinders? I thought of pulling them and ordering separate seals via dimensions if kits are to pricey. The parking brake had new shoes in it but we're never placed on the pins so they were just sitting there doing nothing. I've never had one apart but thought it was pretty simple to see how they should go in.

treeslayer2003 · June 06, 2015, 10:02:51 AM

i would just match the seals, they are not special. can you take a pic of the planet cap? i never seen any one weld that.......why would they? i dunno if steel or iron, i would guess steel.

vatkins · June 06, 2015, 02:15:25 PM

I try to post the pic. Still struggling 😡
Filename: https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39875/image~10.jpg
(1) (0)

beenthere · June 06, 2015, 02:44:32 PM

Pics are in your gallery, so doing fine.
Now just put them in your post by being in your post and clicking on the blue line below, then on the "my gallery" tab in the menu, then click on your pic (it will enlarge), then scroll down below your pic for the "insert image in post", say "yes" and it is there.

rockwall · June 06, 2015, 05:32:15 PM

You can do it!

treeslayer2003 · June 06, 2015, 06:07:14 PM

Quote from: vatkins on June 06, 2015, 02:15:25 PM
I try to post the pic. Still struggling 😡
Filename: https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/39875/image~10.jpg
(1) (0)

whats welded? the cover is off. you know some holes are threaded and for pulling the planetary right?

vatkins · June 06, 2015, 09:43:35 PM

Treeslayer, I had no idea about any holes being threaded for pulling the planetary's. They are probably full of weld. Any advice would be of great help. I'm detremined to fix it right if I can get it apart. Where ever you see a missing bolt there is weld above the hole roughly 2" long and some holes are spot welded inside. Today I got all the bolts out of the right front planetary that were welded so they would'nt loosen. Now I need to cut all the way around the hub where the planetary meets the hub face because someone got a little carried away with they're welder😢 so I try to post a pic while I'm here by clicking on add attachment n it sends me to all the pic stored on my phone or say I can take a pic. ERR-lol Im horrible at this picture thing.

treeslayer2003 · June 07, 2015, 12:19:56 AM

Quote from: vatkins on June 06, 2015, 09:43:35 PM
Treeslayer, I had no idea about any holes being threaded for pulling the planetary's. They are probably full of weld. Any advice would be of great help. I'm detremined to fix it right if I can get it apart. Where ever you see a missing bolt there is weld above the hole roughly 2" long and some holes are spot welded inside. Today I got all the bolts out of the right front planetary that were welded so they would'nt loosen. Now I need to cut all the way around the hub where the planetary meets the hub face because someone got a little carried away with they're welder😢 so I try to post a pic while I'm here by clicking on add attachment n it sends me to all the pic stored on my phone or say I can take a pic. ERR-lol Im horrible at this picture thing.

oh i see............what a dumb azz, that dude should be beaten with a stick for a while.
maybe you could drill them? then tap up or helicore. lock tight will hold the bolts that don't have a cone. the later models don't have any cones.
there should been 2-3 tapped holes in the planetary for forcing it off. they are plugged with super short bolts.

treeslayer2003 · June 07, 2015, 12:22:01 AM

if you can find an old michigan loader in a scrap yard, some have the same planetarys. i know a 75b is the same as your working on.

vatkins · June 07, 2015, 03:21:13 PM

I got the right front planetary apart weld and all! Good thing the inside bearing slide right off the axle housing. A bit loose I thought. Gear look good except some little dings. I mount a brake rotor on the rear drive shaft today to. Looks real good! I'd post pictures but nothing I do works so I'm bagging it. Happy to send em via cell phone send me a text n I'll reply.Gotta say I'm pretty disappointed with how BS it takes to post a pic. Facebook is way simpler. Sorry. Maybe I'll try again when I've got more time. I almost forgot only 2 of the planetary's have the threaded pusher holes other 2 have pry bar holes if you will. Machine is been mis matched I'm guessing

treeslayer2003 · June 07, 2015, 05:46:28 PM

i can see your pics in your gallery

plasticweld · June 07, 2015, 07:02:08 PM

Un-like everyone else I think the Clark axle housings are junk. I have owned a 666 Dixie Special that was bullet proof and I own a 1979 664 now. both axles housings have been replaced both have been welded on. I would be very careful to never ever use the back tire against a tree while winching to help hold you in place. This puts a ton of strain on the axles, the winch is far stronger than the rest of the machine.

If you do a google search you can find the parts manual for the machine on line and down load it for free. It comes in handy when doing repairs to see what your getting into.

My best friend when things go wrong is Harold's in Maine when it comes to how to advice and parts

vatkins · June 07, 2015, 08:41:58 PM

You'll like how the brakes are coming along. I actually think they end up being better than the factory ones. I've ran skidders before n never used a tree to pull against because they all had good brakes. The winch could always pull the Skidder backwards but that's was better than breaking something. Will the factory brakes on the 664 lock the wheels up? I haven't decided what I think of the clark axles n planetary's yet. Once I go through the machine and get to run it I'll decide. I've never seen the bolts that hold the planetary's in broken on another Skidder. The 360 TJ I ran will be hard to beat for sure.

vatkins · June 07, 2015, 09:32:40 PM

Wow still can't seem to post a pic. Thought it was because I was in the moboil version n not on my computer. I did everything I was told even wrote the instructions down to follow. 😡😡😡😤😤😤

gfadvm · June 07, 2015, 09:38:43 PM

Don't feel like The Lone Ranger. I have never been able to post pics here either :( And I too wrote down the instructions (and then showed em to my wife who is a LOT smarter than I am).

vatkins · June 07, 2015, 10:11:03 PM

Thanks, I just don't get why it's gotta be so hard. Hey guys the Skidder I have I bought from Stoneeaglefarm. I was just reading his post where he thought the motor is bad. I have only worked on this machine since I got it. I never heard mention the motor was bad just leaked oil. Sounds like a lot. It does run good n have power starts real good when warm. Doesn't start well In the cold thou n it's was still above 40. Any thoughts besides scrapping it? Lol

treeslayer2003 · June 07, 2015, 10:42:41 PM

Quote from: vatkins on June 07, 2015, 10:11:03 PM
Thanks, I just don't get why it's gotta be so hard. Hey guys the Skidder I have I bought from Stoneeaglefarm. I was just reading his post where he thought the motor is bad. I have only worked on this machine since I got it. I never heard mention the motor was bad just leaked oil. Sounds like a lot. It does run good n have power starts real good when warm. Doesn't start well In the cold thou n it's was still above 40. Any thoughts besides scrapping it? Lol

hmm, i talked to him alot about this machine, didn't seem that bad. if runs ok get it tuned up by a detroit guy. others will tell you its not in the tune, thats bull crap! they must have the rack and governor set right.

never ever winch against any skidder tire, they will all break axles. fender is for winching, not tire.

rockwall · June 08, 2015, 06:05:55 AM

I agree with treeslayer, get a really experienced detroit mechanic to tune it. Mine was sluggish after replacing a blower and other things, one mechanic tuned it but still sluggish. I think the torque converter wasn't kicking in because of not just right tune up. Another mechanic came, tuned it and it runs with full power now.

stoneeaglefarm · June 08, 2015, 01:36:43 PM

Ya Vic, I sent ya off a note on the motor, Because of the help from these guys I realized it was never bad, Just some bad matienence from guys I bought it from, Thats why I steamed cleaned it and had it check out, Start a little hard below freezing because those kids only had the one battery, Like we talked and went over whole machine, Never would I pass a piece of junk off on any one let alone another logger, The guys like trees slayer and others are a wealth of info, That Clark will treat ya well, Just needs someone who has the energy to fix here up. Give me a shout if ya have any questions.

vatkins · June 09, 2015, 05:52:33 PM

Stoneeaglefarm and I talked and the motor is good! Sounds like he figured it out with some help from you guys on the forum! Waiting on seals n bearings now!

treeslayer2003 · June 09, 2015, 08:55:24 PM

;)

vatkins · July 28, 2015, 11:20:28 PM

Hi guys! Well I'm still tinkering on the old hunk of iron. Replaced the front axle seals n bearing both sides and fixed the broken hub and bolts. Made a new main line bottom roll. Discovered a .250" shaft was in the old one not .375" I'm wondering how to check over the winch? Is it ATF in it. I see a plug maybe 1.5 pipe diameter on the left side. Should it be full to the bottom of that plug? Thanks as always for any advice.

oldseabee · July 29, 2015, 06:39:18 AM

The Clark winch gets it's oil and operating pressure from the transmission through the winch control in the cab and drains back to the transmission sump.

rockwall · July 29, 2015, 09:11:01 AM

Just check your transmission dipstick while engine is warmed up and running.

vatkins · July 29, 2015, 07:31:41 PM

Hey thanks guys. Getting close to being able to pull a hitch! Gotta get the iron on the tires and finsh up the breaks

vatkins · August 02, 2015, 11:06:56 AM

Well I finally pulled my 1st hitch! Love the winch! I'm thinking the tranny is tired out. I'm driving up a steep road in the Skidder won't go in high n crawls at a snails pace up the hill if I'm got the throttle pegged. Any thoughts? This can't be right, right lol. ThAnks again for all the help!

Maine logger88 · August 02, 2015, 11:40:49 AM

No that's pretty much how they are lol

vatkins · August 02, 2015, 12:02:06 PM

The temp goes up to around 210 climbing the hill. Normal to ?

grassfed · August 02, 2015, 02:46:41 PM

210 is kind of hot for a detroit but you said pulling a hitch up a steep hill; How big was the hill, how heavy was the hitch, how hot is it outside. Is the machine set up for cold weather use. My skidder has a pusher fan and I have to be careful running it in the summer if it gets much over 85f. 353s with torque converters tend to feel like they are slipping when pulling loads up hill because they need to rev high to make any power plus they sound like they are revving twice as fast as because they are 2 stroke. You dont want to run a 53 series much over 190f for very long. The owner's manual for the 664 is online and has a stall test for the torque converter I would try that test. http://www.alliedsystems.com/pdf/Ranger/Operators/R2598.pdf

coxy · August 02, 2015, 03:09:37 PM

I would try a new temp ga and thermostat I had a 353 that ran 200 all summer changed the tem ga and was only running 185 try pressure washing the radiator too the fins maybe plugged a little with grease and dirt my cat is slower than turtle snot going up hill too pulling or not if it stops moving going up hill then there is a problem ;D

snowstorm · August 02, 2015, 07:17:09 PM

the clark trans in my valmet runs 200 to 215. the book says 200 to 250. in a long up hill pull the motor will get up to 185 if the air temp is 90

stoneeaglefarm · August 02, 2015, 07:20:36 PM

Victor, Try the new temp gaffe and also remember logging in these temps is hard on the machine, Check the radiator and be sure its clean, I know when it gets above 85 and its humid the machine just get hot, We have always tended to work short days with less hitches when its thick air, The only machine I ever owned that did not heat up bad was my John Deere 440c, My timberjacks, tree farmers and even my internationals hated the heat, Good luck

mad murdock · August 02, 2015, 07:21:44 PM

another method going uphill, if the pull is straight, drop the hitch, let the cable freespool out then stop and winch it uphill, sometimes that method is quicker than trying to muscle it up cinched to the buttplate the whole way.

coxy · August 02, 2015, 08:35:19 PM

one more thing drop the blade so its only a foot or so off the ground

treeslayer2003 · August 02, 2015, 09:13:13 PM

Quote from: vatkins on August 02, 2015, 11:06:56 AM
Well I finally pulled my 1st hitch! Love the winch! I'm thinking the tranny is tired out. I'm driving up a steep road in the Skidder won't go in high n crawls at a snails pace up the hill if I'm got the throttle pegged. Any thoughts? This can't be right, right lol. ThAnks again for all the help!

get a detroit guy to tune up the engine, it should have no problem unless your trying to pull 1000ft. i been thru this, its likely the engine tune. they have a stall of around 2000rpm so if the engine falls down just a little.........and no you cannot tell by ear.

vatkins · August 02, 2015, 09:48:36 PM

I'm only driving up the hill with no hitch. The motor temp seems fine. I put a new gauge in for the transmission. I saw it at 240 once today. The hotter she gets the slower we go. When I crest the hill top it only takes a few minutes n the temp drops to 170 or less on the tranny. The Skidder would never pull a hitch up much of a hill but pulls fine on flat ground etc. I did have a hard time starting the motor if I shut it off after the hill. I figured out that if I took time to cut n limb out a complete hitch it would cool off enough to start normal. I'm looking for a motor head to tune it. Is there any filter for the tranny? Also had the free spool for the winch not release twice. But when I got back on and moved the machine ahead a little the cable would free-spool.

Maine logger88 · August 02, 2015, 10:29:43 PM

The 3 I ran were 453 all set to turn 3000 and they didn't drop rpm much and going up a steep hill empty it would do like you said. I always shifted to low on steep hills. Temp wise I don't know cause I never used one when it was hot. The winch trouble is most likely a charge pump getting weak try putting it in neutral with both high and low and fwd rev then blip the throttle and it should pull out fine from there. Is it full of atf? That can also make them sluggish and run high temps.

vatkins · August 03, 2015, 05:56:07 AM

It's full according to the dip stick

grassfed · August 03, 2015, 06:20:17 AM

If you can download this manual (PDF) it has the info on changing the converter filter and how to test the converter.

http://www.alliedsystems.com/pdf/Ranger/Operators/R2598.pdf

Maine logger88 · August 03, 2015, 07:19:12 AM

Was the skidder running in neutral when you checked it?

oldseabee · August 03, 2015, 08:35:31 AM

Steep hill can cause the oil to run to the back of the sump and let the charge pump suck a little air. We had to add an extra gallon or two to the trans. check the dip stick for foamy oil right after a hard uphill pull if it is there add a gallon and try it out and up to two any more and the oil will get up into the gears and get foamy. foamy oil won't pull well.
but first make sure the engine is up to stall speed. 353 has to rev up to for the convertor to pull right.

treeslayer2003 · August 03, 2015, 08:55:23 AM

Quote from: vatkins on August 02, 2015, 09:48:36 PM
I'm only driving up the hill with no hitch. The motor temp seems fine. I put a new gauge in for the transmission. I saw it at 240 once today. The hotter she gets the slower we go. When I crest the hill top it only takes a few minutes n the temp drops to 170 or less on the tranny. The Skidder would never pull a hitch up much of a hill but pulls fine on flat ground etc. I did have a hard time starting the motor if I shut it off after the hill. I figured out that if I took time to cut n limb out a complete hitch it would cool off enough to start normal. I'm looking for a motor head to tune it. Is there any filter for the tranny? Also had the free spool for the winch not release twice. But when I got back on and moved the machine ahead a little the cable would free-spool.

filter should be the cartridge up on the right near the back of the engine. sounds like your charge pump could be a little week.

run her up against a big tree with foot board out, if the shaft from converter stops turning before it spins it's wheels then either the engine is not turning up or there is a problem. mine will pull up hill in high........spin tires shifting low to high.

treeslayer2003 · August 03, 2015, 09:03:01 AM

you guys that are used to t jacks, believe me when i tell you the power shifts should be able to spin the tires in low range no mater what. it should go, spin or stand up on the back tires. if it won't, some thing ain't right. the clarks will pull and pretty fast even in low if they are right.

vatkins · August 03, 2015, 01:05:26 PM

I checked the oil with the engine off. I'll find the filter n get it changed to. I'll try spinning the tires. Pretty sure it will as it pulls great on flat ground n when the tranny temp is not high

treeslayer2003 · August 03, 2015, 04:23:05 PM

its pretty low on fluid then. check just like an auto in a car, hot idling in neutral.

vatkins · August 05, 2015, 06:11:39 AM

Checked the tranny oil hot and running. Was 2 qrts low. It's still slow going up steep hills. It'll spin the tires on hard ground while pushing up the wood so I think it's ok. Guess I better get use to going slower. I printed off the operator manual. Does any body know if there's a service manual on- line? Thanks again

rockwall · August 05, 2015, 07:08:50 AM

You can buy manuals here http://detroitdieselmanuals.blogspot.com/, they have everything about the 353s and more. I would agree with others to have a detroit mechanic do a complete tuneup, just a little tweak on mine made it go from slow as hell to full power. Mine isn't fast hauling up hill but will certainly pull a lot of wood.

grassfed · August 05, 2015, 07:44:47 AM

Here is a link to Allied Systems Publication page. This is the company that owns the ranger/clark skidders. You need to look under the Ranger menu on the right and see if any of those help. http://www.alliedsystems.com/pubs/pubs.htm#

vatkins · August 08, 2015, 07:29:28 AM

Yesterday when I was climbing the steep hill for the second time, the tranny temp went way up(280) I stopped twice and just sat there for a minute and the temp would drop off rather fast then the Skidder would move again. I'm thinking cooler must have a issue. The temp never gets hot on level going no matter how much I pull. The first trip up the hill never brought the temp up over 140. Only made the 2 trips. What's the best way to flush the tranny cooler?

vatkins · August 08, 2015, 08:46:15 AM

vatkins · August 08, 2015, 08:49:33 AM

Wow I just cleared a hurdle and figured out how to post a picture! If I can do that I should be able to make a old Clark Skidder go up hill!!!!!! 😊

treeslayer2003 · August 08, 2015, 09:31:47 AM

thats a pretty big stick. is it tree length or a log? if it pulls good untill it heats up then yes i'd say there may be a blockage. the cooler in the bottom of the radiator, could also be a collapsed rubber hose going to or coming from cooler.

Maine logger88 · August 08, 2015, 12:29:10 PM

One thing if you slide your choker up closer to the butt it will pull easier I usually try to hook 1.5 ft back or so.

vatkins · August 09, 2015, 09:47:31 AM

I had the cable as far up as I could get it. It wouldn't reach around the very end of the butt. Tree is a ash n cable Choker is 7'. The Clark pulled it no problem. I'm only have problems driving up steep hills without a hitch to get to where I'm cutting. Should I just use air to blow out the oil cooler? I'll replace what ever there may be for rubber lines.

beenthere · August 09, 2015, 12:39:26 PM

If the fins in the oil cooler are plugged with oil laden and caked dust/dirt then I think you should use something to cut through that... and I've had great satisfaction with Blue Creeper degreaser. Spray it down good and flush/rinse good with warm or hot water. Would be what I'd try first.
http://bluecreeper.com/Category/degreaser

If just dry grass dust and seeds, no oil mixed in, then just air may do it.

Click your forum name and it will take you to your profile where you can add your location. Then we'll know where in the world you are. Blue Creeper degreaser may not be available to you.

Maine logger88 · August 09, 2015, 01:14:28 PM

Quote from: vatkins on August 09, 2015, 09:47:31 AM
I had the cable as far up as I could get it. It wouldn't reach around the very end of the butt. Tree is a ash n cable Choker is 7'. The Clark pulled it no problem. I'm only have problems driving up steep hills without a hitch to get to where I'm cutting. Should I just use air to blow out the oil cooler? I'll replace what ever there may be for rubber lines.

Gotcha I've had that same thing happen many times it's not quite big enough to bother with an extension but to big to fit around. I've had good luck with parts wash or engine degreaser if it is plugged with oily grime in the fins. Spray it down let it soak for 10 min then blow it out. If it's not oily probably just air would do it

coxy · August 09, 2015, 02:00:20 PM

ez off oven cleaner works great to

treeslayer2003 · August 09, 2015, 08:02:27 PM

boys on the clark, there is no cooler like your thinking. it is inside the radiator like a car or pick up.
vatkins, yes air, but not full pressure.

i cut alot stuff that size and bigger. i don't use chokers any more for those, i have a large choker bell on the mainline.

kiko · August 10, 2015, 11:14:24 PM

An issue with transmission pump suction hose could cause all the symptoms you describe . Check the clamps and also pay attention to the size of the hose. Many times I have found where the suction hose was slightly too large and it was attempted to make up the difference with the clamp. It should be difficult to slide the hose on nipples, then clamp it. This will heat the torque convertor with a quickness especially under load.

oldseabee · August 11, 2015, 01:31:04 PM

Stall speed on Clarks are taken with trans in high gear and hydraulics over relief. 664&664B cable main relief 1600PSI, grapple 2000 PSI, both oils need to be hot 180 deg.stall speed 664/664B cable with C273 convertor, 1920-2080 rpm with C272 convertor 1540-1820 rpm, grapple 1790-1920 rpm. To stall convertor for preheat high gear at 3/4 throttle for no more then 30 seconds at a time put trans in neutral for free flow for 30 seconds to even out the heat, do the same for the hydraulics.

vatkins · August 16, 2015, 09:21:59 PM

Treeslayer any chance u can post a picture of the tranny filter? I can't see anything I think is a filter for it. I flushed out the radiator n filled with new coolant. Then pressure washed the fins. Hope n she runs cooler now. The dip stick tube is leaking. Is it a compression fitting or something else? Are the rear axle seals the same as the fronts? Looks like I'll be change them to. also gonna have do the center pins, front end pins if you guys have any advice on them? Thanks

treeslayer2003 · August 16, 2015, 11:22:34 PM

lets see here..........

i had this stuff made at a machine shop for the front cradle on my 666. the center will be the same parts plus brass washers and some shims.

see that bright yellow canister on the right side peeking from behind the air breather? thats the trans filter. my 666 has a spin on but its in the same location.

i may have specs some where on the pins and bushings. those are repair weldments in the pic, the bushing is a spherical bearing.

vatkins · August 17, 2015, 09:15:12 PM

Thanks! I'll look again this Friday. The filter must be in a return line of some sort right. Wondering if it can be restricting flow to or from the cooler? The pins n bushing look easy enough for me to make. The spherical eye I'll hAve to order. The pump I see on the left rear of the torque converter is the hydraulic pump right? I noticed on mine the suction hose is not as it should be. Thanks again. Wish you were closer I could help you with the machining

treeslayer2003 · August 18, 2015, 08:24:00 AM

thats the tranmission charge pump, the lower right is the hydro pump for steering and blade. it is always bigger than the charge pump.
yes the filter could be restricting flow. i have numbers some where for the major brand bearings, ebay or a bearing house is cheapest route, but i like name brand ones.

i wish you was closer to, i got charged pretty good for what you see there. pins, 1-3/4" drill rod, weldments are just iron like the frame, nothing moves in those.

vatkins · August 18, 2015, 10:11:43 PM

Pretty sure my Skidder has had the filter removed Treeslayer. Is the filter in the line coming off the right side of the oil cooler? I can see a bracket where something once was near the right end of the air cleaner but on the motor. Thinking I can put one back on if it simple is in line on the right oil cooler line? What's the hex chrome looking thing in the bottom left of the tranny just behind the left step? Theres a small opening there.

vatkins · August 18, 2015, 10:23:18 PM

Try n this pic thing

vatkins · August 18, 2015, 10:39:15 PM

This is where I think you say the tranny filter would be.

vatkins · August 18, 2015, 10:55:57 PM

I also see to pumps. The one with the funny looking suction hose ( right one) is the hydraulic pump right? What does the left pump run?

vatkins · August 18, 2015, 10:57:26 PM

The hose is under the drive shaft in the pic.

kiko · August 19, 2015, 03:45:15 AM

There it is, the transmission suction hose. Looks like a radiator hose( at least from here) should have suction hose and suction hose clamps. Edit. Just looked back at the picture, to tell for sure which is which just see where the suction hose comes from. I think the smaller pump on the right will be your transmission pump.

treeslayer2003 · August 19, 2015, 08:13:58 AM

if i'm right, that rad looking hose goes to the hydro tank to the left and if so is the steering pump. this being the case, it looks like the charge pump on the left has been replaced.

vatkins, your filter is missing. yes it goes in line with the cooler line, i think to the converter. i would have to look to be sure. if you get a filter housing, you need to verify specs for flow and bypass. charge pump pressurizes the trans and fills the converter.