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Building sawmill (newbie)

Started by Georgia088, May 07, 2015, 11:27:39 AM

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Ox

You need to make sure the height of the new tire/wheel combo is the same or near enough the same to your cart tires you have now so you can use them without big modifications to your mill as it sits now.
The more plys in the tire the tougher they are and the more tension they can handle before bulging around your blade.  Get the most plys you can or are willing to pay for.   :)
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

21incher

I wonder what would happen if you found a wide Kevlar belt that fit tightly on the deflated tire and then inflate the tire to hold it in place after locating it for tracking? It would get the teeth off the thread and act like standard belt wrapped pulley. You could even spin the tire on the mill and make a tool to cut a groove with a router to lock it in the correct position and make it perfectly concentric with the axle, just like when using a cast pulley.  :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

gww

wider tires are better on the blade.  By wider I don't mean wideness but mean tallness.  It will change your blade length if it is differrent then you have now.  I paid double for tires and wheels then what you are looking at.  If you had a junk yard you might find a small car tire with a 4 bolt pattern that they would let you try and bring back if it didn't fit.  I bought mine at orslens and I am sure if I did not mess them up and they did not fit, I dould have took them back.  I had toyota wheels but I had to put them on backwards to fit my mill and couldn't get enough lug to hold them.  I had to put the trailer tires on bacwards also and put 4 washers to get them to fit without rubbing on anything.  It  ended up being $134 but also ended up being zero risk of ending up with something that wouldn't work cause if I didn't mess them up while seeing if they would fit I could take them back.  This may be something to consider.

My tires are 20.5 inches tall.  I would think you would not want to go below 18 inches and I would thing anything bigger would be ok though you need to watch what it does to your cutting width cause it could affect it more then you think.

I really believe you might get it cutting with your tires now.  I also think that one log when cutting while miss aligned could have made the blade bad enough that now that it is more aligned a new blade may bring it home.  The key is that it forsure be more aligned.  If you can see the blade moving foreward and backwards on your guides while spinning by hand then you may have no choice on the tires.  If however it is running true on the guides and you are just getting a lot of vibration and bounce, It may cut good enough for your need and may be improved if you got them ballanced.  Are you wanting to build a house or cut for others or just take care of yourself.  You have to decide when it is good enough.  Saying that I do believe better is better.  I just think by your last report that you are close enough to waste another $19 to $30 on another blade and then you would have a better assessment.  The other stuff won't hurt you though except if it ended up being a bad bearing or something causing the wobble and not really the tires.  I am not trying to talk you out of it cause better is better and they would probly be better, however, It it cut strait with waves in the board, I would make sure everything is aligned as well as posible and use one more blade and see what it does.  You may have it to your liking now.  You may waste the cost of another blade.  I took a good cutting blade off and put one of my old ones on that I had ground on with a angle grinder and it made one good cut and then the next cut was wavy as heck.  I put the other blade back on and it cut perfectly.  I can only see what you tell me but I think you are close and if the new blade does not cut strait I would watch while cutting and pay attention to motor sound and blade speed and make sure that the problim is not transmission and not really tire.

Just my thoughts
gww
PS  I bet the tires I bought are no better then the one you picture and my point is the ability to take them back and not be stuck if they don't fit.  also ox's guide setting advice is very good.
Also you are not wasting if trying another blade.  If the other one is still good and the new one doesn't cut with out waves then you can still use them both,  If it cuts better with the new blade, you then know the other one is bad.

Georgia088

Alright. Haven't had a chance to do much with the mill, but I did buy two tires and two more blades.

I got woodmizer blades which I know ppl have differing opinions on the different brands of blades. I figure they should work.

While I was at the woodmizer store, I went back and checked out their mills. I have only been around a mill once, and I had no intentions of building one when I saw it run. So, I am obviously new to all of this sawmill stuff. Which I'm sure you guys gathered pretty quickly from some of my stupid comments.

The big thing that I noticed with their mills was the tension on the blades. Wow! So much tighter than mine. I know in the pictures it looks like I have a lot of tension on The blade, but I don't. In the picture with he golf cart tires I had them deflated well below reccomended psi. Bc at the time I thought it would help the blade track. Not the case.

I think I need to add psi to my new tires and tighten the blade tension much more than I had them.

Think this could be my waviness problem?

Thanks!

Ox

Absolutely.  On a tire mill you want as much tension as you can get between the slide adjustment between the tires and tire pressure.  You don't want to over inflate the tires to the point of danger but you want them hard.  For example, if the tires recommend 35 psi for max pressure, you can go up to 50 psi but I'd stop there.  There's a fine line between having enough tension for straight cuts and too much tension taking away blade life and causing undue stress on the bearings.
You're looking to track the blade so the teeth are hanging over the front of the crown of the tire.  The flat part, or body, of the blade will be right on top of the middle of the tire on the crown.  Then tension/inflate until the teeth are just about to touch the rubber.  The blade should be very tight compared to what you've been trying.  Tire mills can't get the same tension as belted pulley mills or steel wheel mills but it'll be "pretty darn tight".  Get it to cut decent this way first, then adding the down pressure with some guides should give you a good cut.
Just like everything in life, different blades for different folks.
And nobody thinks you're stupid.  I'd say you did pretty good having never seen or been around mills.
You've got the basics, now you need to get the details.  One won't work without the other.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

gww

I agree with ox's post and as far as stupid questions go, apparently you haven't read my thread,  You have no corner on the stupid question market.  I didn't think they were stupid when I ask them.

I think yove did pretty well and I will say it again.  I believe your mill head and carrage are going to end up much more solid then mine and that is not a bad thing.
Good luck
gww

Georgia088

I know its been a while, but I do have the mill cutting much better.  I added trailer tires instead of golf cart tires.  I redid how the non drive wheel is mounted so that it would not change positioning as I added tension.  This helped.  I still cant put as much pressure as I think alot of mills have because if I do it causes the drive wheel to be pulled ("toed") in from the tension of the blade.  I'm not sure what is actually "giving" if it is the rubber of the tire or wheel or what.  When this happened the mill cut great (Oh I also added a new blade which did make a big difference).  The problem now is with that much tension on it and it pulling the drive wheel in it causes the blade to track forward all the way to the front of the tire.  Past where I can get my blade guides to reach.

All that being said, I let air pressure out of the tire from about 60 psi (what the tire calls maximum) to about 40 psi.  This made the blade track in the middle of the tire and cuts pretty good.  I'm not going to say it is perfect, but it is acceptable to me at this point.  I'm not sure if this lessened tension will make the blade dull faster?

Now, my problem or what I would like to fix is making log clamps that will hold the log flat and tight better than I have now.  I have looked all over the forum for ideas, but still havent found anything that I feel like I can do cheap and easy.  Any ideas? Pictures?

Gww- I looked through your gallery and see how yours are on a round bar similar to what I did, but I don't see how you tighten up against the log?  Do you have a bolt that tightens on the log? or cam type?

Oh and also:
my non drive wheel is about 1/4 inch lower than my drive wheel.  I havent noticed this being a problem except for the fact that once I put 1/4 down pressure on my drive wheel, my blade guide nearest my non drive wheel is barely contacting the blade.  How big of a problem is this going to be in the future?

Thanks!

Magicman

I would be inclined to put 3/8" down pressure on the drive side.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Ox

I just typed for 20 minutes in a lengthy post and it's gone.  I guess I need to start saving these things somewhere.  I don't have the patience to type it out again right now.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Magicman

Fat Fingers do Foul Things.  (new old saying)   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Shotgun

Type it in your word processor, and then copy and paste. You can take two weeks to get it right, if you want.   :)
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

gww

G
My dogs are very simple.  I have square tubing on one side of the track that I stick boards (2x2).  My mill is far enough off the ground that I just keep hammering the  boards further into the tubing as I need to cut lower to the deck.  The movable dogs with the points, I just swivil them to higth (tall for the first cuts and short to finnish out the cant).  I just put the point where I want on the log and hit the bottom of the dog with a hammer till I am saticfied.  It puts the dog in a bind and it doesnt move.  To remove the dog I hit it on the bottom going away from the log and it losens it.  Me and a hammer are best freinds.  Thats also how I fix numerous other problims, so a hammer is nice to always have around anyway.

If you do dogs that you need a hammer for, You need your bunks to hold the log high enough that you can get to the dogs from under the log.  There are lots better dogs then mine but mine are all I know about.  They work for me.  I only did them that way cause the weigth set that I built my mill with had the right things on it to do it that way.  I like you just used what I had and this is what I came up with.  Using what I had is why I did it this way.

It is good you are getting closer.

Good luck
gww

dustyhat

(088) i believe you will be happier with the trailer tires. the golf cart ones just looked a little on the spongy side .

Georgia088

Just an update. I am sawing. Still wouldn't say perfect, but not too bad I don't think for a homemade mill. A couple of things I'm going to throw out there for suggestions tips etc.
The first use for any lumber I have cut is to use as a natural edge countertop in my basement. I hadn't planned on using pine for this, but it's what I have available at the moment and if I decide I don't like it and something else comes available I will change it out. I cut 2 slabs about 12" wide and 1-3/4 thick. I left the natural edge on one side of one of the slabs and put the two slabs together with countertop bolts. It turned out pretty good.  Not great but I'll take it.



  

  

 

Where there are knots in the wood there are slight dips or rises in my cut. I am assuming this could be because of my clutch that was on the golf cart that yall talked about in a previous post? If I could make the clutch pulley (the clutch pulley expands and contracts based on load or strain) stay in a constant place(not contract and expand), could this fix the problem? Or, could this be because I don't have enough tension on the blade?

This is a southern yellow pine I would assume. It is green as I just cut the tree down about a month ago. Obviously when I cut it, it was very wet and sappy. I'm sure it's going to draw and shrink as it dries, but how much?
What would you put on the wood to kill any bugs in it? Or is that even a concern?
Again, thanks for any help!

gww

G
I am cutting oak and I got a bit of the dip/rise you are talking about just the other day.  I usually slow down a bit when going through the knotts.  My problim ended up being that one of my guides had moved and I had not noticed it.  I went through the whole magic picture thing again and things seem to be a lot better.  I am cutting with a pretty used blade for me.  It has cut about 8 13/14 inch logs and I used to only get one.  Every one says that a dull blade will cause waver but it is doing mostly good now.  I some times think if it is not doing it on every single knott that it might be just the tree in that spot but have not cut enough to know much for sure.  I think checking the guides one more time and making sure they are solid would be a place to start.  I pick this first cause it just happened to me.  My belt slips every once in a while but notheing like it used to.  Others have said in simular situations when their belts sliped it caused waves.  It might be the cause that your clutch is a problim but you might get by with better guide adjustment and slowing down on knotty areas.

I have found on mine that blade alignment gets me the most bang for my buck.  I have also found that you can get a pretty good board with it out of alighment the sharper your blade is.  I find the easiest way to tell when things are starting to go haywire is at the end of the cut.  If my blade can be pulled back over the cut and it rubs the whole way, I usually have good alighment.  If it drops after the cut more then a blade thickness, I am off and it it ends up above the cut and does not touch the log, I am off.  I sometimes don't know why I am off but it has been guide adjustment the last two times I got off a bit. Once I had one of my wonderfull welds break and the guides where lose and once I must have put to much pressure by either hitting the log with the guides or pushing to hard on the mill with a blade that could not keep up.

I have no ideals on the wood protection.  I just read a thread on this site (maby yesterday)  That someone mentioned something to spray on the wood.  I had intended to remember what it was but I don't remember.  The same person who mentioned it may read this thread and answer.

I do believe that the clutch thing might be ok but you might have to slow down.  In your first report you said you couldn't notice any speed change when cutting.  I have noticed speed changes and as long as I am paying attention and also it is not slipping really really bad, I can still get good cuts.

You also may want to watch for sap build up as some say that can affect cut.  They say diesel cuts it but is bad for tires.  I would try it on mine if I had a problim with sap.  I have used wd40 and though not cheep and probly also bad for tires it did seem to short term break up sap.  I never even took it seriously enough to spray the whole blade but just the top and bottom of the blade between the wheels.  I have never cut pine cause there is none around here and the closest I have come to it is a couple of cedars.  I am also very new and lots on this site have more knowlage then me.  I am trying to help and not hurt but might be a dummy so keep that in mind.

I don't know if any of the above will help but wish you the best.
Good luck
gww

Ox

A clutch that doesn't change speed, unlike the one you have, is a must.  You want the blade speed to stay the same all the way through the cut.  Changing blade speeds in the middle of a cut can cause problems.
Guides without enough down pressure can be a problem.
Not enough tension is usually a problem.  However, I once sawed a whole log with the tension at 1000 psi on the gauge when it's supposed to be at least 2100 and I didn't even notice.  Sharp blades help in this situation.
A dull blade is a problem.
A log that wants to stay a log will fight you every bit of the way and will be a problem.
Pitch buildup on the blade is a problem.
Any of these things can and will cause wavy cuts.
The best thing we can do is be proactive and tend to these things ahead of time to give ourselves a fighting chance.  In the end, the log has the final say anyways!  :)
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

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