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.325 v 3/8 chain......

Started by mrcaptainbob, May 03, 2015, 11:21:22 PM

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mrcaptainbob

Friend asked what the diff is. I have no idea. What is the difference, if any, between a .325 pitch and a 3/8 chain?

beenthere

Found this in my files

Quote"Pitch" - The distance in inches between any three consecutive rivets on the chain, divided by two.
The most common are 3/8" and .325".  Be aware that there are two types of chain that are both 3/8" pitch, one is the "standard" type generally used on saws 55 cc and up, the other has the same pitch but is called "low profile" and is used on smaller saws - up to 45 cc or so.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

mad murdock

There is now narrow kerf chain that is being used on more powerful saws, as the kerf on .325 pitch chain is 1/4", a lot of guys out in the PNW are using it in softwood for faster cutting action, as it takes out less wood, but you cannot go out past about 32" or so on the bar length, as the chain cannot handle too much HP input.  I might add as well that the NK pro style lo pro chain is not your consumer grade chain either,  it does not have the safety links.  Not recommended for the novice or low experienced cutter.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

mrcaptainbob

Thanks for the info. Helps a lot. The guy has a rather old Homelite XL with an 18" bar. he's looking at a Husqvarna 445 with an 18" bar and would like to use his old chains while one is in the shop. I believe the XL has a 3/8 chain, the Husqy a.325. I presume it makes no diff to the bar, only the drive sprocket. So....can a 3/8 pitch sprocket be installed to replace the existing .325?

dougand3

Clutch sprocket, bar tip sprocket and chain pitch need to match. He should find out exactly what he has - should be a UT XXXXX # on the saw. He can look up chains and bars at Oregon Chain Selector. If I bought a .325 saw, I'd just buy .325 chains.
Husky: 372xt, 272xp, 61, 55 (x3)...Poulan: 315, 4218 (x3), 2375, 2150, 2055, 2000 (x3)...Stihl 011AVT...Homelite XL...Saws come in broken, get fixed or parted, find new homes

mad murdock

There should be numbers stamped on the bar near the stud slot end. It could be .058" or .050" groove. You can also measure the thickness of the drive links on the 3/8" pitch chain. The newer saw is most likely .050" gauge. The older saws anlot of times were .058" gauge or sometimes even .063". It is the width between the bar rails.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

SawTroll

Quote from: mad murdock on May 04, 2015, 01:07:11 AM
There is now narrow kerf chain that is being used on more powerful saws, as the kerf on .325 pitch chain is 1/4", a lot of guys out in the PNW are using it in softwood for faster cutting action, as it takes out less wood, but you cannot go out past about 32" or so on the bar length, as the chain cannot handle too much HP input.  I might add as well that the NK pro style lo pro chain is not your consumer grade chain either,  it does not have the safety links.  Not recommended for the novice or low experienced cutter.

You seem to be confusing .325 narrow kerf (NK) with 3/8" lo-pro/picco. .325 NK chain is not lo-pro - and where do you find bars that fit any of those up to 32"?
Information collector.

mad murdock

You are right Nikko. Picco is .365" low pro NK i think is set for .375". I am using the 63PMX on my saw (372XPW) with a 32" oregon pro-tip sprocket nose. The bar is 3/8" pitch .050" gauge and a oregon drive rim of 3/8" /7  .  The guidance infollowed for this set up was from the guys in the back shop where i bought the stuff, and they said that the difference between the picco and the .375" stuff i was using it with would not be a problem. I have run many thousands of bd ft of millin through it since and i have noticed very minimal wear due to the difference, with never an issue with a chain wanting to jump off or anything else. Just my experience with it.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

SawTroll

Quote from: mad murdock on May 05, 2015, 07:03:58 AM
You are right Nikko. Picco is .365" low pro NK i think is set for .375". I am using the 63PMX on my saw (372XPW) with a 32" oregon pro-tip sprocket nose. The bar is 3/8" pitch .050" gauge and a oregon drive rim of 3/8" /7  .  The guidance infollowed for this set up was from the guys in the back shop where i bought the stuff, and they said that the difference between the picco and the .375" stuff i was using it with would not be a problem. I have run many thousands of bd ft of millin through it since and i have noticed very minimal wear due to the difference, with never an issue with a chain wanting to jump off or anything else. Just my experience with it.
3/8" and 3/8" picco/lo-pro both basically are .366", so different pitch isn't the issue. Marketing people at brands and vendors like Bailys (spelling?) are contributing to confusing people....
The real issue is that the picco/lo-pro have a much lower chassis (from the centerline of rivets vs. bottom of tie straps), that must be compensated by a larger diameter drive sprocket, and different teeth on the nose sprocket, to make the rivets running according to pitch.
Running picco chain on regular 3/8 sprockets often works (sort of, some times not), but it is like using sprockets worn well past their intended "life" - lots of extra wear and tear.

It is a pity that this forum doesn't accept jpg attachments, as I have a good illustration of the different drive sprocket differences....
Information collector.

mad murdock

Maybe you could upload those pics to your gallery?  That would be some good information to see.   Thanks for clarifying it. I always learn something new on here.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

SawTroll

This site is refusing to upload jpg files for some reason, so that won't work. Are you a member on any other saw forums? It works on most of them, and have been posted many times.....
Information collector.

OldJack


beenthere

Sawtroll
Don't think it is the Forum, but likely what you are trying to do.  Follow the guide in the pic posting thread (go to Home and scroll near the bottom). If you have a pic in .jpg format, that is what will load to your gallery.

Is it a pic you snapped yourself, or is it on or from a link to another site?  Look forward to seeing your illustration.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

SawTroll

Quote from: beenthere on May 05, 2015, 03:33:26 PM
Sawtroll
Don't think it is the Forum, but likely what you are trying to do.  Follow the guide in the pic posting thread (go to Home and scroll near the bottom). If you have a pic in .jpg format, that is what will load to your gallery.

Is it a pic you snapped yourself, or is it on or from a link to another site?  Look forward to seeing your illustration.

The picture has been posted many times on other saw forums, and originates from a now dead member of the AS, as I remember it. The only forum I can't post it on as it is seems to be this one.
Information collector.

mrcaptainbob

So, can a 3/8 drive sprocket be installed on a Husqy 450 Rancher? Just now spoke with the fellow and he's leaning towards doing that..... Incidentally, his chain is 3/8, the drivers have '72' stamped on them, and the drivers are .05 thick. One other point.....he wants to know if his existing bar from the XL would fit that Rancher.

mrcaptainbob

Just checked the Oregon tables and it shows that Husqy uses a micro type chain. Does that mean it would take more power to run that 3/8 thicker chain?

dougand3

Micro chain means 20BPX = .325. 72 stamped on chain means 72 LPX or LGX = 3/8. Oregon doesn't show a 3/8 clutch sprocket for Husky 450. Someone may make one. But you should realize - if you change drive sprocket, you have to change the bar to 3/8 tip sprocket. Full 3/8 will take somewhat more power than .325. This doesn't make sense to do for a mid range homeowner saw in order to use old Homelite chains. And the DLs must match, too. Husky 450 takes a 095 mount. I seriously doubt an old Homelite would fit but fellow needs the exact Homelite model # to check.
Husky: 372xt, 272xp, 61, 55 (x3)...Poulan: 315, 4218 (x3), 2375, 2150, 2055, 2000 (x3)...Stihl 011AVT...Homelite XL...Saws come in broken, get fixed or parted, find new homes

SawTroll

Quote from: mrcaptainbob on May 05, 2015, 06:36:03 PM
So, can a 3/8 drive sprocket be installed on a Husqy 450 Rancher? Just now spoke with the fellow and he's leaning towards doing that..... Incidentally, his chain is 3/8, the drivers have '72' stamped on them, and the drivers are .05 thick. One other point.....he wants to know if his existing bar from the XL would fit that Rancher.
Oregon chain with 72 on the drivers will be 3/8" .050. LP/LPX or LG/LGX are chisel, while DP/DPX is semi chisel. Depending on how old that chain is, there have been other variants.
Anyway, it is a very bad idea to use that chain on a 450, 3/8" will not perform well, and the bar won't fit the saw properly.
Information collector.

mad murdock

I figures since Sawtroll was kind enough to email me the pic he referred to, I would try and post it.   
Hope that it comes through ok. 8)
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

OldJack


mrcaptainbob

Well, the fellow ordered the 450. I told him that he can 'experiment' with the saw with the as-is chain and see what that's like. And, if he desires, he can try to modify the driver and swap over the XL stuff. Also explained about the need for more HP to cut a wider kerf, Using a snow shovel as example. Wider shovel takes more energy than the narrow one. Maybe he'll be able to find a sprocket. The investment in extra thin-kerf chains is negligible compared to straining the power head. (my opinion...) Anyway....it's been ordered and I'm sure he'll be a happy camper.
I do want to thank all for your contributions to my  chainsaw education.

Dave O.

1st thing..I AM NOT A 'PRO"...(I don't even play one on TV ;-)
I am lucky enough to know a few guys even older than me (66) who ARE ret. 'pros' hwo I can learn things from.
I have a prettygood litlte Husky 353 and wanted to run 3/8 full-skip on it.
Had to change the bar and drop form 20" to 16" bar to pull the wider chain (Snowshovel anology earlier on this thread was a good oen ;-)
Also installed a floating spocket which is SO much better than paddle sprockets I wish I had known about them years ago.
353 pulls the new 3/8" chain better than OK.

.325 does not seem to be available in as many varieties as 3/8", so if you want to run full-skip, you have greater selection in 3/8"
Know that there are different GAUGES and even tho both my saws are 3/8" chain, ("new" saw is a 562XP Husky), I cannot buy a roll of chain and use it on both saws.

IMO you are better off starting out w/ the chain you want on your new saw than piddling around like me and finding that there are many more variables and it is not as simple as you think it will be when you start changing from what came on your saw from the shop in the 1st place.

Dave

SawTroll

Quote from: mad murdock on May 06, 2015, 02:42:50 PM
I figures since Sawtroll was kind enough to email me the pic he referred to, I would try and post it.   
Hope that it comes through ok. 8)

Thanks!  :)

In the picture the picco rims are mini 7-spline and the regular 3/8 rim standard (often called large) 7-spline, so never mind how large the hole in the center is - the point is to show the different outer diameter. The difference isn't a minor one.
Information collector.

HolmenTree

 
Here's a mini 7 spline 8T Picco rim compared to a standard 7 spline 8T,
sorry about the spruce gum covering the 8 :D


 
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