Best practices .... Start to finish

DPForumDog · May 01, 2015, 06:39:17 PM

Hello,
We have had our saw mill less than a month and have zero prior experience.
I am wanting to find a good thread on best practices for drying in central Alabama. Can someone please reccomend a good thread about the drying process if you don't have a kiln.

We are wanting to cut 1x8x12ft for baseboards and door facings out of pine. I want to know how to stack and dry and how long to dry and what size stickers and about a million other questions I have not even thought about yet,

Our current plan is to stack the wood in an old airplane hangar, i.e. Quanzit ( Kwanzit) hut. I am going to buy a moisture gage soon.

Any and all ideas and references will be much appreciated.

Granny DP

DPForumDog · May 01, 2015, 07:02:04 PM

I suppose You could say I am looking for a "dummy's guide to drying"

Glenn1 · May 01, 2015, 07:22:25 PM

An excellent way to learn is to read Yellow Hammers's threads. He has given me plenty of insight and help in drying lumber.

beenthere · May 01, 2015, 08:17:46 PM

Here is a link to a publication on air drying hardwood lumber.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf

The site appears to be down at the moment.

QuoteAir Drying of Lumber - Forest Products Laboratory - USDA ...
www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf
by FPL GTR - ‎1999
dies of air-drying defects, and protection of air-dried lumber. Keywords: drying lumber, air dry, wood structure, wood shrinkage, drying rate, wood defects.

And another link.
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-37.html

DPForumDog · May 27, 2015, 10:20:27 AM

Thanks, Everytime I previously tried that first link it was down, but it up today. :D

WDH · May 27, 2015, 10:00:36 PM

You need good foundations. The foundation must be level. The stickers must line up on the cross supports on the foundation. I use 1" x 1" stickers. I sticker on 16" intervals. This means that the cross supports on the foundation are on 16" centers. This will give you flat, straight boards. Keep the stack width 4 feet wide maximum. Wider, and pine can mold, mildew, and turn black.

If you dry in a Quonset hut, you must have fans to keep the air moving. This is imperative with pine. Best to air dry under an open sided shed with a roof.

I use purpose built pallets to stack the air drying lumber on. The quality that you put into preparing a good stack foundation and keeping your stickers centered over the supports will pay off in in high quality boards.

Here is a pic of one of the barrel fans that I use to keep air circulating on species that give up water fast and that will stain if there is not good air circulation. Pine, yellow polar, maple, and sycamore always get a fan for at least the first 3 or 4 weeks. These 9/4 maple slabs dried beautifully with no sticker stain or gray stain. With pine, you can put the fan closer to the stack, about 4 feet is good.

DPForumDog · May 28, 2015, 10:09:03 PM

You have quite the operation! Very impressive,
Our Quonset hut has no ends, so I think we should get pretty good air flow.

YellowHammer · May 29, 2015, 04:45:54 PM

Quote from: DPForumDog on May 28, 2015, 10:09:03 PM
You have quite the operation! Very impressive,
Our Quonset hut has no ends, so I think we should get pretty good air flow.

WDH has a top notch operation, and he makes good $$ drying high quality wood. He knows his stuff. 8)
I'm in northern Alabama and in the summer my pine and other white wood will grey out or sticker stain in a few days without a lot of airflow. I have an open sided cover, but use big barrel fans, also. If you are not going to paint the wood, customers don't like buying lumber that looks like a Zebra. ;D
There is so much moisture coming off with the fans that for the 4th of July last year we put our chairs downwind of the stacks and the fans acted like swamp coolers, keeping us cool.
YH

WDH · May 29, 2015, 08:17:42 PM

If you are around Red Oaks Lumber for very long, there are three things that he will say....

"Air flow, air flow, and air flow."

;D

plowboyswr · May 29, 2015, 09:33:25 PM

WDH, and Yellowhammer on the pallets that you both use what size lumber did you use?

YellowHammer · May 29, 2015, 11:33:16 PM

All mine are exactly 8 feet long, either 48 or 42 inches wide, made from my cull, low grade kiln dried 1x's and 2x4's. They are really skids rather than pallets as they don't have bottom boards, only top boards and runners. This keeps them from trapping moisture when they are stacked on other packs and causing sticker stain. The runners are 16 inch on center, and correspond where my stickers are placed in the stacks.
Here's one being built.

And here's a few being used. The skids or pallets are in integral part of the operation, as the wood comes off the mill and gets stickered immediately on the pallets. After that, all operations are done moving pallets with forklifts and loaders, not handling the individual boards. It saves a tremendous amount of time, helps standardize loads, and keeps the lumber drying dead straight.

I also use them as a guide to trim boards to length. Instead of trimming every single board, I trim them in bulk on the pallet with a chainsaw, like this stack of cedar.

YH

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · May 29, 2015, 11:44:12 PM

It is probably of no interest, but the pallet shown is called a single face, double entry, non-reversible pallet. Single face means only one face is completed and in this case the top face is completed. Double entry means that it can be entered by a fork lift from two different ways, not four. Non-reversible means that the top and bottom are not the same, so there is a top face that is different from the bottom face. The pieces in the frame are called stringers and the top pieces are called deck boards. In a four way entry pallet, the outside stringers will be notched so that the forks can enter from the other two sides.

It should be obvious that such top notch stAcking pallets are a big step in drying lumber that will be straight after drying.

YellowHammer · May 30, 2015, 05:36:23 AM

Good info, thanks, I always like to learn, and call things by their correct name. Besides, that sounds a lot more impressive than "skid." ;D
YH

WDH · May 30, 2015, 07:23:55 AM

Wow, I did not know that my pallets had such a long name ;D. I make mine out of pine. On most of them, I sawed the stringers purposely so that once they are jointed and planed, they are a full 2" thick and 4" wide. This makes them stouter than a store bought 2x4. Also, since the opening between the stringers is 4" high after you stack one pallet on top of the other, that gap is easy to fill using 2 pieces of the rigid 2" polystyrene foam (to seal the pallet openings to direct the air flow through the layers of wood, not through the big gaps between the stringers).

And yes, I joint all the stingers straight to assure that the pallet will stack dead flat. I make two sizes . One 96" long and 48" wide, and one 112" long and 48" wide. This way, I can stack 8', 9', or 10' lumber depending on which pallet I use. I can only load boards up to 10' 6" wide in my kiln. That is plenty long for furniture grade and woodworker hobbyists.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · May 30, 2015, 10:57:27 AM

A thought occurred to me. In addition to the stacking pallets, some people like to band the dried lumber and still have room for fork lifts. So, they will put a 2x2, 2x4 or 3x3 (called a bolster) on the floor and then the lumber stack on top of this bolster. This bolster piece will have a shallow groove in it on the bottom so a steel or plastic strap can be fed through while the lumber stack is on top of it. So, now the stack can be banded tightly with the straps and the straps will not be touching the floor (catching on stuff or rubbing or wearing). The wood bolsters will touch the floor, will provide room for forks, and will be tightly fastened to the lumber stack. Usually three straps are used, but I have seen just two.

plowboyswr · May 30, 2015, 11:47:05 AM

Thank you gentlemen. I'm still in my planning stage on my little adventure and trying to get as much information as possible. Hoping to do something similar to what you have done, with my own hardwoods off of our farm.

bkaimwood · June 01, 2015, 06:06:46 PM

I've been looking for ideas and the best way and the best pallet/foundation to get my lumber stacked/organized as it comes off the mill, and is still mobile afterward..sticker spacing has helped me too, in regards to premium lumber...I've never stickered that close, but will now...thanks fellas!!!

GeneWengert-WoodDoc · June 01, 2015, 10:26:01 PM

Sticker spacing is usually 24" if the stickers are aligned perfectly and if there is no odd-foot length lumber (that is, 7', 9', etc. in a pile of even-foot lengths). Some commercial operations with valuable lumber (like hard maple, cherry and walnut) will use 12" spacing, especially 4/4 and thinner. I suggest that 12" is what many small operations should use. However, I have seen smaller operations use 16" and 18" spacing on just about any lumber. With odd-foot lengths, you will need an extra sticker one foot from the end to catch the ends of the odd lumber. For warp prone species and for lumber of varying lengths (plus or minus a few inches), I suggest using two stickers at the end, maybe separated by 1 or 2".

bkaimwood · June 02, 2015, 05:30:00 AM

Makes sense to me Gene...a mini operation like mine needs to make the best lumber I can...establishing myself as a quality lumber provider to get some regular/more business for one, and losses kill already small profits...brings me back to a previous posters comment, and something I'm actually looking for...the best book to start with, or the equivalent to drying lumber for dummies...I am using and want to continue using a dry kiln...right now, my redneck dry kiln consists of a 70 pint dehumidifier and a circulating fan in a insulated shed. My method started as cut, sticker and wax ends, put in the kiln. Thinking this is bad from some things I read here, I recently started air drying for a couple weeks before putting in the kiln. I find that lumber sheds 15% or so in these first air dried weeks...but I don't know, and clearly need some formal guidance on where to start...any help would be appreciated. I had some nice red oak flitches 2" thick that cracked pretty good in the air dry phase...I know oak is tough, especially in thickness, and in slabs, and in pith areas, so maybe some things are best left to firewood...I've also had some significant losses in slab walnut, due to end cracks, but believe I doomed myself there, leaving the logs sit too long, as significant pith cracking was evident even before sawing...I don't know what a drying schedule is, if I should be using one...I know I should add heat to my kiln...now it runs 105 degrees during the day, but will need heat come fall, and prolly should already have it...my dehumidifier runs constant. Like I said, need a reference or suggestion on where and what literature to start with...I don't want to be pestering all you guys with step by step startup learning questions, from the drying dummy. Thanks fellas

red · June 03, 2015, 11:32:14 AM

www.Kubinecstrapping.com has the ability to retension strapping

Ribsy · June 03, 2015, 08:15:21 PM

I will suggest that one of the first things you should do is cut lots and lots of accurate stickers so that you will be prepared when all the boards start flying off the mill. I cut mine at 1"x1" and the sooner you get them cut, the sooner they'll be dry, which is the best kind of sticker to have.

Start setting up your "foundation" for the stacks so that you know where your boards are going to be in advance.

Be consistant with your board thicknesses so that they stack properly and the stickers lay flat top and bottom. Each layer will have the same thickness. And try to be consistant with lengths. I have separate stacks for my 8' boards, 10', 12' 14' and 16 footers different stacks for different species also and of course some odd locations for that 5' walnut mantle you want set aside for a couple of years.

Also, on drying, oak does need air flow but does not want to dry too fast. My experience only, which is nothing compared to the other guys who have made comments of this post.

bkaimwood · June 04, 2015, 05:26:13 AM

Thanks Ribsy, you hit the nail and my plan on the head, in exact detail...going to cut stickers till the pile is as tall as I am...then make pallets..8', 10', 12', the a slab pallet as mentioned...then prep my stacking location along side the barn...then I could easily access and forklift pallets into the kiln when the time is right...I know you are in GA, I am in PA, and I'm assuming that is what makes the difference... But if I don't get air circulation around my red or white oak the next day, it starts to get the dreaded purplish spots I've assumed are a mold or fungus? Now, all I just need a drying expert to chime in regarding where to start on my previously addressed drying and kiln part...hint, hint...thanks fellers!!!

Ribsy · June 04, 2015, 09:09:17 PM

Also, if you are willing to spend the time and money, spray your boards generously with a 15% solution of Tim-bor Pro. Works great for mold and bugs. I wouldn't do without it during warm, humid days... and I know Pennsylvania is not much different than Georgia in the summertime. Good luck. The wood will always keep you humping. If its not one thing, its another. And if you get lazy, your boards will let you know!

YellowHammer · June 05, 2015, 07:03:28 PM

Quote from: bkaimwood on June 04, 2015, 05:26:13 AM
But if I don't get air circulation around my red or white oak the next day, it starts to get the dreaded purplish spots I've assumed are a mold or fungus?

This sounds a little odd, typically mold and fungus won't show the next day in oaks, especially as purple spots. However, metal contamination on the boards will show the next day as deep blue or purple spots, streaks, or other marks in oak. It can be from the boards touching the raw steel backstops, or bedrails with the paint worn off, even a blade that is having problems, and rubbing its sides too hard against the board as its sawing. That's one of the reasons we use the pallets, it keeps the steel forks from touching the bottom boards of the wood stack causing big purple stripes on the boards.
Do you have any pictures?
YH

bkaimwood · June 05, 2015, 08:27:56 PM

I'll try to get some pics here soon YH, but I have been suspicious myself as to possible metal contamination, but I'm sure it'd not from any equipment... I've read it could be from previous iron or metal the tree ingested...I will work on the pics...I heard you r the fella to send me in the right direction on the book "drying lumber for dummies", or where to start, as mentioned earlier in this thread...thanks for your help!!