Choke cherry & Thorn Apple

[brianJ]

are the common names here in central New York.       A lot of reading the forum over the past fortnight leads me to guess a lot of the country uses buckthorn for choke cherry and maybe hawthorn for thornapple?    What are the local names everyone uses out there?  and are we talking about the same species?

[thecfarm]

The chokecherry that is in my area has a latin name of Prunus virginiana. Does not really grow much bigger than 6 inches.
Wife makes jam from the berries.

[beenthere]

Buckthorn around here is the Common buckthorn (Rhamnus cathartica)

brianj
Have you keyed out the ones you are trying to identify? 

[mesquite buckeye]

Much of the midwest calls hawthorn thornapple.  They are genus Crataegus and there are lots of species.

[sandhills]

We have choke cherry around here mostly along fencelines from birds spreading it, but unlike what thecfarm mentioned ours will be trees or at least big bushes if allowed to grow, sand cherries on the other hand will never get much bigger than 6-12".  They make good jam too  , I can't say I've ever heard of thorn apple though.

[brianJ]

Beenthere Cfarm    My experience with id is mostly consists of what is crowding along the edges of our fields and thus what needs to be killed.    As for education mostly wikipedia and sometimes ask the locals.   So a more precisely pointed question would be how would I tell the difference between buckthorn and choke cherry?   Keeping in mind to my knowledge Ihave never seen buckthorn.

Buckeye   The township I grew up in had many pastures overgrown with Thornapple laced together with grape vines.   I thought that was the worst thing ever.  All but eliminated any control by hand.    Other areas in NYS much much less. Dont know why

Sandhill.   The one year I did wheat harvest I didnt see any thornapples/hawthorns.   Saw a lot of mesquite in TX, osage in OK KS, by the time we traveled to NE & Co  we were west enough not to see any trees.  Then finally in WY and MO we were west enough and high enough elevation pines were predominate.  Also saw cottonwood along any riparian areas the whole way thru.

[WDH]

So a more precisely pointed question would be how would I tell the difference between buckthorn and choke cherry?   

For one, buckthorn leaves are shiny and smooth on the margins.  Chokecherry leaves have fine teeth on the margins.

[John Mc]

Common Buckthorn (Rhamnus cathartica) also often referred to as "European Buckthorn" has fine teeth.
Glossy Buckthorn (Frangula alnus) has no teeth.

Common buckthorn is generally more widespread in the US

[jrose1970]

Good thread! I was definitely mixed up. We have some (very few) hawthorn/buckthorns, but I was calling them chokecherries.  It would be nice if someone could post some pictures with fruit and leaves. (Of course, I looked it up on other sites.)

[beenthere]

jrose
Now you know, and we would like to see your pics.

[John Mc]

MN DNR page on Identifying Buckthorn

THe USDA Forest Service also has some good information on invasive plants here (check out the "fact sheets" link to find write ups on a number of plants). I've attached a pretty good write up they have on identifying Common and Glossy Buckthorn along with some basic information on control.

[jrose1970]

Yes, I see. A picture is worth a thousand words.  I'm the world's most untechnical person.