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Red Pine Question

Started by brb, April 29, 2015, 08:20:03 AM

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brb

Which species would you relate Red Pine to when using drop the drop down menu in the span calculators?

Ox

I believe it's quite close to Southern Yellow Pine.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Jeff

I dunno about that. Really, I don't know, but I have a hunch it's no where near syp.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

beenthere

As Jeff said, not in the same class as southern yellow pine grouping.

Which calculator are you referring to here?
If white pine is in the table, should be safe with the spans.   

What are you building and what size material are you asking about?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ox

OK, I just realized I was off after checking back on something I remembered reading.  Red Pine is classed in a group of "hard pines" just like Southern Yellow Pine.  However, Southern Yellow Pine has subgroups under it and Red Pine doesn't.  Red Pine's closest cousins are Austrian Pine and Scots Pine if that is any help.  It closely resembles Lodgepole Pine in beam strength characteristics.  It's just a hair stronger per my pocket reference books by Thomas J. Glover.  Red Pine horizontal shear is 1495 pounds per square inch (PSI) and Lodgepole Pine is 1438, dry.  Wet values are lower.  I should be smarter than to rely upon my stinking memory.   ::)
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Ox

As an added note:  For a quick comparison White Oak is 1380 and SYP is 2185!
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

brb

I am looking at span calculator for floor joists. Looking at designing a two story gambrel roof shed.

Dad2FourWI

Our forester told us that "slow growth" Red Pine (like we have here in central WI) are stronger than the fast growth SYP - well, at least for utility poles.

He has worked for Nakoosa Edwards/Georgia Pacific/Domtar and Bell Timber - (Bell is the processor of the utility poles).

I found this interesting... but remember YMMV (your mileage may vary!!!  :D :D :D  )

-Dad2FourWI
LT-40, LT-10, EG-50, Bobcat T750 CTL, Ford 1910 tractor, tree farmer

beenthere

Dad2
Probably could find that there is some overlap in some strength property variance about the averages that are calculated for different species, especially when comparing pine slow growth to pine fast growth.

And some of the syp can be very fast compared to "fast" growth in northern red pine plantations.

The numbers that go into the design standards are for the most part, quite conservative to account for those variances, I believe.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jeff

Beenthere would be able to answer to that better than probably anyone, but I would say the stresses on a phone pole and the type of strength properties required, are significantly different than that of other structures.

Oops. hes on it already. ;)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Dad2FourWI

Beenthere,

OK, that is very interesting... thank you!!

When we had our last thinning, some of our larger poles gave the skidder troubles... He has worked all over and he said that these poles were extremely heavy. They were about 50 year old Red Pine.

When the tornado season is active... those poles can see a lot of action!  :D

-Dad2FourWI
LT-40, LT-10, EG-50, Bobcat T750 CTL, Ford 1910 tractor, tree farmer

Chuck White

Quote from: brb on April 29, 2015, 03:58:52 PM
I am looking at span calculator for floor joists. Looking at designing a two story gambrel roof shed.


This chart might be what you're looking for.

http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp


I think I've read somewhere "here" that Red Pine is the same as, or akin to Norway Pine.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

red oaks lumber

brb
i would check with the inspector first to see what he'll allow with regards to native lumber in a load bearing role
if it was me i would use jackpine over red pine
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

OntarioAl

Up here Red Pine, and both Eastern and Western White Pine are grouped as Northern Species in the span tables  and they are definitely not as strong as Southern Yellow Pine.
I would use White Pine  in the drop down table.
Al
Al Raman

Jeff

Norway pine is Red Pine. Red Pine is the actual name. Norway is the regional or generic term I guess you could say No one knows what the real connection is to why people call red pine norway pine as it never was from norway. The best guess is they confused it with Norway spruce.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

brb

Thanks guys for all the input. I will compare the strengths of White Pine, northern species and spruce fir pine from the drop down menus and go from there.

Red Oaks, I have to talk to the building inspector yet. I know of a few buildings done with it in my area, not that means much. I have more access to nice red pine than anything else. You know use what ya got kinda thing.

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