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Share your story of success and failure in business

Started by nstringer04, April 27, 2015, 08:14:51 PM

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nstringer04

Since starting my own small sawmill business only 1 year ago, I have had numerous ups and downs. I have been overwhelmed with happiness and optimism as well as fear and uncertainty. One thing that seems to help me get through the hard times is to hear stories of how other people haved handled troubling times within their own business. What happened? How did you overcome? How did you fail? Share your story.
A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for.

WV Sawmiller

NST,

    Welcome. This should be an interesting thread. I think we'd all love to hear from you about your personal experiences too so we can respond about how others handled the same or similar situations. What is your target clientele? Are you portable or stationary? What kind of support equipment to you use or find you are short on? What prompted you to become a sawmiller anyway?

    Looking forward to seeing how this turns out.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

Magicman

I did not really have a failure, but I certainly did have a change in direction.  My plan was to harvest my own trees, saw, and sell lumber.

The harvesting took away valuable sawing time and when it was wet, the harvesting stopped.

Next was inventory.  I had no idea what buyers might want so I sawed an assortment of 1" Oak and SYP framing lumber.  Then if I did not have what they wanted I either sawed what they wanted, or sold them what I had and sometimes taking a hit on length and width. 

Then it was storage.  I had no sheds to store and keep my inventory dry, so I was potentially loosing my inventory.

After about 6 months, I had started picking up custom sawing jobs and then I finally realized that I was on the wrong end of the lumber.  There would be no more selling for me.  No harvest, no inventory, nor storage. 

I would offer portable custom sawing only.  No logs, slabs, or sawdust to get rid of.  I have never ever regretted making that change in my business plan, and I am well into my 13th year of sawing.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

4x4American

I would love to make a go of your gig, MM, but I just don't have the clients lined up for that.  To keep busy I have found that I need to be flexible.  I keep a small inventory of framing lumber and 1" stuff.  All EWP.  That is what people always seem to ask.  Oh, you have a portable mill, how much for a 2x4x8'?  Have any off hand...If I don't have it I will attain the logs and saw it out.  I try to keep logs offhand but I don't have much room to work with here.  Then there are the portable jobs.  I like to travel, but every so often you get one that is too muddy or too steep or the logs are good for nothing rotten twisted things covered in mud with rocks embedded into them.  Even after you explain why you need clean logs over the phone two weeks before...
Boy, back in my day..

Verticaltrx

What you are feeling is the norm for entrepreneurs, there will be some ups and downs in any business. I can't speak on the business of sawing in particular, (although I do use my mill in my current business) but many service businesses are similar so hopefully I can give some insight.

I started my first business when I was a junior in high school which was around '00-01. I noticed in our area there was a need for someone to remove Hawthorne trees from pasture land. They are little crab apple like trees with huge thorns and neither bush hogging (flat tractor tires) or dozing (loss of topsoil) was an option farmers seemed to like. So I built an attachment for the front of a loader tractor using scrap steel and a $60 hydraulic cylinder and I had a tree/post puller. I started out with a borrowed tractor and my attachment until I could afford an old Ford NAA which I then mounted the attachment on the 3pt hitch. It was somewhat tedious work, but I was turn a $10/hr profit and for a high school kid that seemed pretty good back then. 

Moved on and went to college also got my Class C contractors license which was about '07. Started doing small farm handyman type work on the side (after class, on weekends, etc). Picked up some jobs doing fencing and building small sheds, barn repair, etc. Started doing all my fence jobs with that old Ford NAA and a 35yr old PTO post hole digger on the back, setting the posts all by hand. Time went on, I upgraded equipment along the way, got my class B contractors license and started taking on larger and larger projects

Fast forward to today, I mostly build barns, sheds and portable buildings and I'm continuing to grow my business. This year I hope to hire some full-time employees to keep up with demand.

I've had my tough times, from dealing with irrational customers, to bidding jobs wrong (and basically working for free), to dealing with broken equipment, to going months without work in the winter. The more problems you face the easier they become in the future, you learn something from each one.  But, there is far more good than bad usually and the freedom and income potential is definitely a high point of being an entrepreneur.



A few tips:

-stay out of debt, not having any payments on anything makes it much easier to float along when no work is coming in, keep a little savings built up too. If your business is seasonal save up enough during the productive months to make it through the winter.

-Advertising/networking/branding is almost as important as production. (This took me a long time to figure out). You'll hear lots of folks say that word of mouth is all the advertising they need but if you really want to grow your business and increase your earning potential by a lot, you need to advertise. Advertising can be anything from yard signs to truck/trailer graphics, to craigslist ads to newspaper or radio ads. A good, professional, website is also a plus.

-The customer is not always right. 95% of the time they are right, ie you do what it takes to make them happy, but there are some that just need to be culled from your client list. Good advertising will allow you to bring in enough business to add to the top/good paying/easy to deal with customers, and get rid of the bad ones.

-If you keep your expenses low it will be easy to turn a good profit. When buying tools and equipment only buy as big as you need and wait until you absolutely can't get by without it before buying. Also really pencil things out to make sure what you are buying will indeed have a good return on investment, the quicker the payback the better.

-Read, read, read.... I try to read at least a couple non-fiction books a month. There are so many good books about business, money, entrepreneurship, and various trades. Good books about these subjects are both inspiring and informational. If you don't have time for reading most are available as books on tape now.

-Get good mentors, I have learned volumes in many different trades and aspects of business just by working along side folks for a while.

Hope some of this helps.  smiley_beertoast
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Magicman

Oh, I get calls every week from folks wanting various lumber, Oak trailer decking, Cypress, or ERC.  There is a lumber market here for someone, just not me.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

nstringer04

I grew up in a "logging family" my grandpa, dad, uncles, cousins, all logged, milled, cruised timber, etc.. I have been logging since I was about 15. It's just in my blood. I always liked the idea of owning a mill and finally got a woodmizer last year. I mill crane mat timbers and pallet cants. My only support equipment is a knuckleboom loader.
      Lately the mat business has come to a screeching halt and pallet cants don't really pay the bills. Still logging to do that.  I have known all along that I needed to find as many markets as possible so I could have a back up plan but pallet cants is as far as I have gotten so far. I can't build pallets because I don't have the equipment or money needed to start that up yet. Can't afford to sit on lumber either. Hardwood logs are becoming scarce around here also. I would love to find a market for rough green pine that pays enough to pursue. Just seems like I have hit a dead end until things change for the better.
   
A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for.

nstringer04

Thanks vertical. I have a couple of mentors, believe in the the power of advertising and branding, and love to read about business. Lots of great advice.
A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for.

Peter Drouin

And I did just the opposite of what Magicman did. :D :D :D :D :D
Now I'm home putting up roof for all the lumber.


  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 
Sometimes I think I have to much sawdust in my head. :D :D :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

YellowHammer

Great pictures of your very successful operation Peter 8)
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Magicman

Quote from: nstringer04 on April 27, 2015, 10:23:45 PMI would love to find a market for rough green pine that pays enough to pursue.
Notice that I did not list Pine.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

nstringer04

Quote from: Magicman on April 27, 2015, 10:39:22 PM
Quote from: nstringer04 on April 27, 2015, 10:23:45 PMI would love to find a market for rough green pine that pays enough to pursue.
Notice that I did not list Pine.

I was thinking more like milling cants or timbers for larger mills to further process. I have found a couple of outlets but they are just a little it too far away
A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for.

Magicman

Yup, a very limited market and transportation would be a killer there.  As I mentioned, there is a Cypress market.

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SawyerBrown

Quote from: Verticaltrx on April 27, 2015, 10:00:46 PM
-Advertising/networking/branding is almost as important as production. (This took me a long time to figure out). You'll hear lots of folks say that word of mouth is all the advertising they need but if you really want to grow your business and increase your earning potential by a lot, you need to advertise. Advertising can be anything from yard signs to truck/trailer graphics, to craigslist ads to newspaper or radio ads. A good, professional, website is also a plus.
I agree with everything Vert says, but in my experience this recommendation is backwards.  A good, professional website is the FIRST thing you should have, and then if you have "advertising budget" left, do the other things.  For probably better than 75% of my custom sawmill work, I have people calling me from 100-150 miles away, because they found my website on the internet ... and they didn't find anybody else!  You can also use "social media" absolutely free, get in there and promote wherever it is you decide to go.

I can't really give you any other advice ... different area, different product (we have mostly hardwoods here), and I'm not doing it to feed a family (this is just a little "fun money" to allow us to take a couple of nice vacations a year).  But I do wish you the best of luck!
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

longtime lurker

A sawmill is a business and regardless of where and what you saw some fundamentals apply because they apply to any business:

It's never going to be smooth sailing. Theres always ups and downs, times of profit and times of loss. Doesn't matter how big you get thats always going to be there - the only thing that might change is the number of zeros involved.

Niches are good while they stay niches. But mostly as soon as you find a profitable niche someone else sees you making money and jumps on the bandwagon. Don't let that stop you looking for niches or servicing them. But dont let finding a niche blind you to other opportunities either.

Never sell a piece of timber you wouldn't use yourself. And deliver on time. Even better - allow extra time for stated delivery and then deliver early. Happy customers are repeat customers.

Make sure you get paid. And make sure you stay on top of the paperwork in general. I hate that part - but I know that if I don't "waste" time in the office then the whole show grinds to a halt.

Sawing matters. You can't make money if you don't saw. But selling matters more. The key to any business is to keep cash rolling in, and in this business that means selling timber. Low paying jobs are better then no paying jobs.

Don't be afraid of debt. It's just about impossible to shift from a subsistence business to a profitable one without taking on debt. But know good debt from bad debt. Good debt is borrowing money to buy things that make you money. Use debt to finance equipment. Cash is something you should save for buying logs - or for meeting repayments during the inevitable quiet times.

Know your cost of production. And know when you can buy something in cheaper then you can do it yourself. The aim of business is profit and believe me - some of the most profitable lumber sales I've ever done were simply a matter of picking up a phone and buying stuff from a bigger mill further away and marking it up as it passed through my yard.

The easiest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

DMcCoy

I agree with verticaltrx, that is good advice.  Stay out of debt.  Don't buy stuff you do not need, and make sure it is need not want.  Tools and equipment decline in value over time to a base level, that is your loss.
I would add having a pile of cash( edit: in the bank -duh!) will keep your head clear for making good decisions and your options open.
As MM stated in a less direct manner - being aware - really important. 
I equate being in business as getting rid of 1 boss and getting 300.  You supply what they want.
Like to work - Being self employed is great because you only have to work 1/2 days! 
That would be the first half or the second half. :laugh:

thurlow

Quote from: Magicman on April 27, 2015, 10:39:22 PM
Quote from: nstringer04 on April 27, 2015, 10:23:45 PMI would love to find a market for rough green pine that pays enough to pursue.
Notice that I did not list Pine.
How 'bout yure sweetgum?
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

downsouth

I also just started my sawing buisness. My plan is to do portable custom sawing. Of course that may or may not change we shall see. But I have a 40hour a week job and I do not need this as income,just as funny money. That does not mean that I do not want to be successful. I just want to start slow. I own my mill and have no buisness debt.
    This is my third buisness that I have started. My first was a roofing company,that was very profitable for a few years. I think it grew way too fast,as I could not keep up. My employees were not trustworthy. I made a living off of this for a few years and after a year long migraine I closed up shop.
  My second was a trucking company. I started it because a friend of mine (life long friend) had been in the dirt hauling buisness for years. He got a divorce,lost everything he had. So we decided to buy a truck. I would buy the truck,cover the paperwork and finances and he would drive it and hustle work. It worked great! For about a year and a half. Then someone offered him a job making $100 more than the salary I was paying him and he quit.
I had no use for a dump truck,as I worked a full time job. So I sold it.
This sawmill buisness I will rely on nobody but myself. I will take it slow. I have learned how to say no to people. You can't make everyone happy all the time and if you try you will probably pith off more people than you need to.

Magicman

I seldom if ever say "no" to normal sawing jobs.  If I am booked tight I tell them so, and that it could be 2-3 months (or whatever time) before I can get to them.  If they can not wait I understand if they need to contact another sawyer.  Most times they can wait, and most times I can work them in sooner.

I lost a nice one this year while I was busy sawing for another customer.  It was 60+ miles away and he found someone else within a couple of miles.  Only thing was that he had to load and haul them where I would have brought the sawmill to him. 

The point being that you can not get them all.  There are bulls and bears in the business world, but no hogs.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

customsawyer

One of the the "old sayings" that I live by is pigs get fatter and hogs get slaughtered.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

red oaks lumber

one thing i would like to point out is your decision making is completly differant when your sole income is your business not as a hobby :) myself my business is my life so, turning a job down because your busy or whatever is not an option. there's 24 hrs in a day,ya learn real quick that more hours are spent working than not :) if you want to suceed with your business know saturday and sunday are also work days.
i believe there are "hogs" in business, and i'm one of them :) you don't get ahead without a big appetite . :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: customsawyer on April 28, 2015, 05:35:30 PM
One of the the "old sayings" that I live by is pigs get fatter and hogs get slaughtered.

Never heard this but I like it!  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

tmarch

"There are bulls and bears in the business world, but no hogs."  But we do have goats. :D
Retired to the ranch, saw, and sell solar pumps.

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

NCForester

My comments to the group are as follows:  I have being sawing for 28 yrs.  Most of that was on weekends and day's off.   Now being retired for 3 yrs., I am doing portable sawing probably 2-4 jobs/month.  I also do backhoe jobs, and tractor work.   All of this keeps me as busy as I want to be.

I just had the Woodmizer Service Guys here today to service my mill.  I try to keep it in good shape and ready to go.  I have sawmill jobs lined up thru June of this year. 

The key to this work is to be patient and not grow too fast.  Be flexable and realize the need is there.

Dave Shepard

I had my own landscaping business that I started 15 years ago. I had all new equipment. New pickup, trailer, backhoe, lawnmowers, chainsaws. It was all new. It all had a payment to go with it. In good times, it wasn't too hard to keep up with payments and insurance. In the winter, it was very difficult. In 2004, I was in pretty good shape. All payments and insurance up to date, I had work coming in, and I had learned a lot about planning. Then I got into a motorcycle accident, and I got to learn about a whole new aspect of being in business. I lost just about all of my maintenance clients. I started selling equipment to pay bills. Early 2005 I was hospitalized for eight days, and this pretty much finished me. I started to get behind on payments, some of my equipment needed maintenance that I couldn't afford. By 2006 I had given up my insurances, which pretty much means you are out of business, as far as I am concerned. I managed to keep my backhoe. My truck needed a new transmission, and my credit was toast. It's been a slow climb back, and I haven't climbed very high since then.

The high debt load was a double edged sword. It allowed me to have good equipment for the first five years, and not spend much time working on stuff. But, when you are out of work for even a short period, things snow ball rapidly. I've learned more about how to charge for the work I do, and what situations to avoid. I would take jobs that were not really profitable just to have cash flow. That was shortsighted. I may have gotten enough to buy another tank of fuel for the backhoe, but I had taken a small percentage of the life of my truck, trailer and backhoe in the process without planning for their repair or replacement. Now, if a job doesn't get me clearly ahead, I don't do it. I charge good money for the work that I do, but I do good work, and I don't compromise. This helps build a reputation that will spread by word of mouth. Doing poor work will also build a reputation and spread by word of mouth. ;) I would suggest that anyone starting a business hire an accountant to see what it's really going to take to keep a business going. How to deal with taxes in a way that allows you to reinvest any profits rather than take a hit in a good year. I would also advocate not jumping in with both feet, unless you have no other choice, or you have a good bit of capital to through at the business for the first year or so. I've been in the position of having a lot of work, but no capital to make it happen. One time I had about $5,000 worth of work lined up, and no fuel for my truck or backhoe. I happened to be in a convenience store with $2 to my name and I bought a scratch ticket and won $100. That bought a lot of fuel at $1.18 a gallon. I've also been in the same situation, and won nothing. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

kellysguy

 At 29 you need to take a good look around at what's going on in your area and figure out if whatever you plan on doing is going to be around in 20 years. Whichever direction you go, you don't want to have wasted the past 20 years and have to do a major direction shift....trust me....

red oaks lumber

dave
there is always a single point of failure and yours my friend was that motorcycle :) sorry to hear of your set back. what dosen't kill ya only makes you stronger (old saying)
the part of don't jump in with both feet, opportunities only are around for alittle while. make hay when the sunshines (old saying)
  like i have told my wife for ever, it's only money. material things. the "man " dosen't cut your arm off or take your kids away. without risk there is no reward. :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Dave Shepard

The hospitalization in 2005 would have taken me out of the game too, but I had both, so nothing was left to chance. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

kellysguy

Quote from: red oaks lumber on April 28, 2015, 08:52:56 PM
the part of don't jump in with both feet, opportunities only are around for alittle while. make hay when the sunshines (old saying)
   without risk there is no reward. :)


And when you can't pay the bill, what you tell them, "Check's in the mail"? ;D


WV Sawmiller

I'll try this again. Cyber demons ate the last 2.

Peter - I am impressed with your operation. I'd say you are heavy into lumber retailing or working towards that goal. I ascribe to the MM model more. I am new to the business but in preparation I read everything on this thread that looked like it would help me in setting up a portable milling business. I first thought about getting a manual mill like an LT15GO or LT 28 but family and friends talked me into getting my LT35 HYD. I am glad they did especially since I am light on support equipment. Except for the mill and a few odds and ends I already had everything I currently use - truck, ATV, log arch, chainsaw, etc.

Before Buying a mill I visited the NC WM dealer and looked at the mills. I was sold on WM because of the reputation and what I saw of the mills on the lot. I am not a mechanic but the design looked straight forward and the technical support I read about swayed me to WM vs some other good mills.

Sawing for me is a hobby that should pay for itself and help me earn a little mad money. My bills were all paid and my children raised and educated and independent mostly from income I made overseas working in some real sketchy areas. That kind of work provided good money and lots of R&R so my wife and I have seen some very unique and remote areas of the world.

Before getting a mill I sourced and priced good insurance. From the FF I developed my business cards, contracts, pricing, etc. I reviewed every portable sawmill website I could find then built mine with the help of a local IT guru/family friend. After I got my mill and practiced till I was moderately comfortable I passed out cards freely, made homemade flyers and posted them in likely local stores and businesses like feed stores, barber shops, community/country stores, etc. I just recently advertised in our local weekly newspaper for a few weeks. All of these have gotten me inquiries with more jobs waiting in the wings than appearing yet. "Supposedly" I have several clients cutting and staging logs and will call to schedule when they are ready. Some will - some probably won't follow through. Lots of folks know I am in business but don't need lumber yet. That can change on short notice and they can tell their friends if the topic of lumber comes up.

I have a neighbor half mile away with an LT10 who cuts for the public for about 2/3 what I charge if you want to deliver the logs and pick up the lumber after several months. I am chasing a different market for the folks who can't or don't want to transport logs and lumber or who want it quicker and are willing to pay a little more for that service.

I set up a number of Excel spreadsheets and keep detailed records of all expenditures, sales and scan and keep all receipts. I keep up with my fuel so I can file for return of my road taxes paid when I bought the gasoline. (If I had a diesel machine I'd be using off-road, untaxed diesel but have not found a source for off-road gasoline). Come tax time I can send summary or as much detailed info and my accountant/tax preparer needs.

Time will tell whether this turns out to be a success story or not. It can't be a very big failure as I have not gone into debt or  invested excessively to the point it will affect my savings and retirement funds.

Good luck and thanks to all for the valuable info on this forum.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

shakebone

We saw pallet wood and board fencing for our mainstay and hardwood and board and batten siding for our niche markets we operate a small kiln it gives us a little bit of an edge we get as many calls on the kiln as we do the mills.I have 3 employees and if you can stay outta that your better off ,it takes time  jump on the roller coaster and hold on !!!!! ;D
Lt40 super desiel , LT 35 hyd , New Holland ls 180 , Case 75xt ,
So many logs so little time.

kellysguy

Quote from: shakebone on April 28, 2015, 10:56:54 PM
We saw pallet wood and board fencing for our mainstay and hardwood and board and batten siding for our niche markets we operate a small kiln it gives us a little bit of an edge we get as many calls on the kiln as we do the mills.I have 3 employees and if you can stay outta that your better off ,it takes time  jump on the roller coaster and hold on !!!!! ;D


The biggest problem that he's up against is the gulf coast lost a LOT of trees with Katrina to begin with, and then that area became flooded with mills. What jobs were left after all the free trees were gone were few and far between with way too many mills wanting a piece of the pie.

What I find most concerning is someone who comes from the industry is having trouble getting work. It has a lot to do with the area, there just isn't enough trees and/or work.  Given the fact we're talking trees and not turnips this isn't going to change overnight. Sure there are folks wanting lumber but it's finding the trees that is the problem. Then there is only so much work for an area with dozens of mills.

There is currently a tree guy down there selling a mill, chipper and trailer to buy a dump truck......a tree guy.....

If a tree guy can't find trees, who can?!

I have a close friend who was a VERY busy arborist in the New Orleans area....he now does spray foam insulation

.....in Tennessee.....

gimpy

Let me tell you of my opinion on how to fail in business.

I'm retired so keep this in mind. I moved to a very small town (Klamath Falls, OR) in early 2012. Our city is the poorest city in the state. Most area businesses are struggling. Mostly, in my opinion because they work hard to fail.

If you have to depend on your business to survive, you have to be smart. Smart enough to let people know you are in business. Someone earlier said you have to have a good website. You can't make a living if you can't get people in your door, so to speak. Here in this town, it's almost impossible to find anything locally, unless you have lived here for decades. In spite of my age, I know how to research the internet for things I need. But I can't find what I need here. The local Les Swabb (sp?) has a website but has no listing of what they sell or prices. They also don't respond to e-mails, my preferred research tool. Then e-mailed another local tire shop I'd driven by. 3 e-mails over 2 weeks and no responses. Same with the local trailer dealer. No responses to my e-mails. Long story short, my money went over the hill to the big city. I've gotten to the point where the big Brown Trucks are at my door a couple time almost every week delivering what I couldn't find locally. I have a decent retirement income and spend it. But not in my own town.

The town leaders hire expensive experts to try to promote our city/county to get businesses to come here. But they try to get companies that use "normal" tech to conduct business and we don't have the leaders to make it work.

I haven't been able to arrange for classes at our local colleges (intro to welding) and they also don't normally respond to electronic inquiries. We have a couple of first class colleges but we still have the same kinds of leaders in them.

I keep recommending to anyone that will listen to partner up with a computer professor and make a website (using local business license holders) to create something as simple like SHOPKLAMATH.com. Anyone with a current license could be listed and it'd be a way to keep money in our town.

I looked for a public shooting range (This is Oregon after all) in town in 2013. There was one listed on the net at the airport. After numerous visits to the airport without finding it, I finally gave up and called my local representative. I finally got a person to speak to. It turns out it hadn't been open to the public since 9/11. 12 years ago. But it was still listed on the web.

All the crap above is to tell you that if you want business, you have to make sure they know you are there. Portable sawyers locally are advertising on Craigslist. But try to find them on the net. Get on the net in your area and make darn sure you respond to all contacts.

Then you have a good chance to be in business for years to come. Smaller city/county governments can fail also and drive the economy right into the ground. Learn from everyone else's mistakes. Don't repeat what then ones that go out of business have done before you.

I have an income and saw just for myself and my good neighbors. I can't fail because everything is paid for.

I was a small business owner in a one man office for 20 years. Good service and making sure they know you exist is the key to success.

I hope I don't fall off my box now.  :)
Gimpy old man
Lucky to have a great wife
John Deere 210LE tractor w/Gannon Box

Peter Drouin

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on April 28, 2015, 10:37:38 PM
I'll try this again. Cyber demons ate the last 2.

Peter - I am impressed with your operation. I'd say you are heavy into lumber retailing or working towards that goal. I ascribe to the MM model more. I am new to the business but in preparation I read everything on this thread that looked like it would help me in setting up a portable milling business. I first thought about getting a manual mill like an LT15GO or LT 28 but family and friends talked me into getting my LT35 HYD. I am glad they did especially since I am light on support equipment. Except for the mill and a few odds and ends I already had everything I currently use - truck, ATV, log arch, chainsaw, etc.

Before Buying a mill I visited the NC WM dealer and looked at the mills. I was sold on WM because of the reputation and what I saw of the mills on the lot. I am not a mechanic but the design looked straight forward and the technical support I read about swayed me to WM vs some other good mills.

Sawing for me is a hobby that should pay for itself and help me earn a little mad money. My bills were all paid and my children raised and educated and independent mostly from income I made overseas working in some real sketchy areas. That kind of work provided good money and lots of R&R so my wife and I have seen some very unique and remote areas of the world.

Before getting a mill I sourced and priced good insurance. From the FF I developed my business cards, contracts, pricing, etc. I reviewed every portable sawmill website I could find then built mine with the help of a local IT guru/family friend. After I got my mill and practiced till I was moderately comfortable I passed out cards freely, made homemade flyers and posted them in likely local stores and businesses like feed stores, barber shops, community/country stores, etc. I just recently advertised in our local weekly newspaper for a few weeks. All of these have gotten me inquiries with more jobs waiting in the wings than appearing yet. "Supposedly" I have several clients cutting and staging logs and will call to schedule when they are ready. Some will - some probably won't follow through. Lots of folks know I am in business but don't need lumber yet. That can change on short notice and they can tell their friends if the topic of lumber comes up.

I have a neighbor half mile away with an LT10 who cuts for the public for about 2/3 what I charge if you want to deliver the logs and pick up the lumber after several months. I am chasing a different market for the folks who can't or don't want to transport logs and lumber or who want it quicker and are willing to pay a little more for that service.

I set up a number of Excel spreadsheets and keep detailed records of all expenditures, sales and scan and keep all receipts. I keep up with my fuel so I can file for return of my road taxes paid when I bought the gasoline. (If I had a diesel machine I'd be using off-road, untaxed diesel but have not found a source for off-road gasoline). Come tax time I can send summary or as much detailed info and my accountant/tax preparer needs.

Time will tell whether this turns out to be a success story or not. It can't be a very big failure as I have not gone into debt or  invested excessively to the point it will affect my savings and retirement funds.

Good luck and thanks to all for the valuable info on this forum.





Thanks, I try. You look like you're on the way.




Quote from: gimpy on April 29, 2015, 02:05:07 AM
Let me tell you of my opinion on how to fail in business.

I'm retired so keep this in mind. I moved to a very small town (Klamath Falls, OR) in early 2012. Our city is the poorest city in the state. Most area businesses are struggling. Mostly, in my opinion because they work hard to fail.

If you have to depend on your business to survive, you have to be smart. Smart enough to let people know you are in business. Someone earlier said you have to have a good website. You can't make a living if you can't get people in your door, so to speak. Here in this town, it's almost impossible to find anything locally, unless you have lived here for decades. In spite of my age, I know how to research the internet for things I need. But I can't find what I need here. The local Les Swabb (sp?) has a website but has no listing of what they sell or prices. They also don't respond to e-mails, my preferred research tool. Then e-mailed another local tire shop I'd driven by. 3 e-mails over 2 weeks and no responses. Same with the local trailer dealer. No responses to my e-mails. Long story short, my money went over the hill to the big city. I've gotten to the point where the big Brown Trucks are at my door a couple time almost every week delivering what I couldn't find locally. I have a decent retirement income and spend it. But not in my own town.

The town leaders hire expensive experts to try to promote our city/county to get businesses to come here. But they try to get companies that use "normal" tech to conduct business and we don't have the leaders to make it work.

I haven't been able to arrange for classes at our local colleges (intro to welding) and they also don't normally respond to electronic inquiries. We have a couple of first class colleges but we still have the same kinds of leaders in them.

I keep recommending to anyone that will listen to partner up with a computer professor and make a website (using local business license holders) to create something as simple like SHOPKLAMATH.com. Anyone with a current license could be listed and it'd be a way to keep money in our town.

I looked for a public shooting range (This is Oregon after all) in town in 2013. There was one listed on the net at the airport. After numerous visits to the airport without finding it, I finally gave up and called my local representative. I finally got a person to speak to. It turns out it hadn't been open to the public since 9/11. 12 years ago. But it was still listed on the web.

All the crap above is to tell you that if you want business, you have to make sure they know you are there. Portable sawyers locally are advertising on Craigslist. But try to find them on the net. Get on the net in your area and make darn sure you respond to all contacts.

Then you have a good chance to be in business for years to come. Smaller city/county governments can fail also and drive the economy right into the ground. Learn from everyone else's mistakes. Don't repeat what then ones that go out of business have done before you.

I have an income and saw just for myself and my good neighbors. I can't fail because everything is paid for.

I was a small business owner in a one man office for 20 years. Good service and making sure they know you exist is the key to success.

I hope I don't fall off my box now.  :)








You are 100% right, I call back all customers. If one comes here and wants 2 boards and there in the back and I have to move 500 to get them I do,When the customer sees what I have to move they will say Don't do all that work for 2 boards. I tell them that's what I'm here for. :D :D When someone comes I shut off the mill and help them and not have them wait.
Customer Sevres is what it is all about. I all so have a price sheets printed out and hand them out like candy.
I have customers travel 1 to 2 hours from me to get wood.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

SawyerBrown

I think being responsive is critical.  I try to respond to all calls or emails (there's an optional form on my website that generates an email) within 24 hours, even if it's just to find out more information. I can't tell you the number of times I've had people tell me they'd called so-and-so and they'd never returned the calls. (Maybe a spouse could help with this??). Be responsive, take a personal interest in what your customer wants, help them in the decision processes. Always be personable and friendly. I looked at an ad for custom milling the other day, and it was all about "won't do this" and "won't do that" and "don't waste my time if ..."  Wow, I wouldn't call this guy even if I did meet all his criteria!  One can always turn down a job, but don't turn people off before you even know what it is!  We all like being around people who are upbeat, knowledgable, responsive ... Just walk in your customers' shoes for a moment and you'll know how to act as a business.  I believe that's one thing that can set you apart from competitors.
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

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