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safe distance from trees for driveway

Started by Klunker, April 27, 2015, 08:07:51 PM

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Klunker

I have approx 25 acres that is mostly all hardwood, SE WI. Lots of hickory, some white oak, red oak, lots of over mature Aspen, other typical hardwoods. I'm going to build a home in a field in one corner of the prop. I have to make an approx 1000 ft drive thru the woods to get to the field. There are some nice white oaks and a few red oaks that are right in the path of the driveway. I'd like to keep these trees and I'm not opposed to moving the driveway somewhat to avoid them. one of the pieces to the puzzle is how close can I get to the trees I want to keep before I am more than likely going to kill them. The driveway is going to be made by stripping off approx a foot of topsoil to the gravel below and then laying down gravel for the drive. I know that if I don't get any closer than the edge of the crown I'm safe. But the issue is if stay away from the crown of one I'm right up against the trunk of another. If I stay away from the trunk 10 ft am I OK? 15ft? 20 ft?
I might not be able to save all the bigger oaks but I'd like to try.
Any thoughts?

thecfarm

Lay down the ground fabric,than the gravel,geotextile? I wonder if you did not remove the topsoil first,or only remove 6 inches,if that would help. I have a woods road that was only topsoil,but has been a woods road for years. I had gravel hauled in and the trees and road is fine. Trees are only a few feet from the edge. Coming up the driveway,I did the same thing. I have bunches of trees on the right hand side coming up the drive. Have not lost one yet due to the driveway. Been here 15 years.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

clearcut

As a very general rule of thumb, the roots of many trees in temperate forests will spread about 1½ times the spread of the crown, so a 20' crown spread means about a 30' root spread. Now that varies greatly by the species, soil conditions, competition, and other environmental conditions.

With a mature tree, try to damage less than 1/3 of the roots at any one time. Most of the feeding roots will be in the top 18-24" of the soil so your plan will most like injure any roots in the path.

Another rule of thumb, once you start cutting roots over about an 1" in diameter, then you are having a significant adverse impact on that tree.

So trees that must be saved - stay out of the root zone. Trees you want to save, get no closer than the drip one (edge of the crown). The closer you get from there reduces the tree's chance of surviving the impact.

Also consider that branches overhanging a roadway can impact the type of vehicles that can travel down that roadway. Fire trucks for example need significant vertical clearance in order for external equipment - ladders an such - to not be snagged on tree branches.

Good luck with your project.
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beenthere

The one thing that hurts white oak is covering the root system with fill. Seems they need to breath and backfilling over their root system causes short life.

On the other hand, I pushed my drive through the trees in 1965, within a couple feet of a red oak and another white oak. Both are still alive going on 50 years now.

As well, you may move your drive away from a tree and it will die of natural causes within a short time.

So I'm inclined to say put your drive in where you want it to go, and let the trees fend for themselves. You will have to contend with pushing snow, getting water to run-off well, and get a good ditch for water to move away as well. More trees will grow, and some will die, and some will just become good firewood. Enjoy the ride. The forest is ever-changing and won't stand still for anything. ;)

You can make out the red oak down in front of the wing plow in this pic and the edge of the blacktop is within 12" of the base of the tree. Its about 25" dbh estimated. The other side of the drive has several smaller red oak in the 12-14" size about 4' from the edge.

 
south central Wisconsin
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Klunker

Thanks for all the responses. Beenthere gives me some food for thought.

the reason I'm concerned about certain trees is this wood lot is composed of two different woodlots. This can be seen on a google earth view of the woodlot.

An old (by a habitat type) section of mostly large maples and a younger (less than 100 yrs old) section. I'm going thru the younger section. As I mentioned this younger section has a lot of large aspen that need clearing out to release the smaller younger hardwoods. In this section there are very few larger hardwoods. These few larger trees are almost exclusively oaks. Mostly white oak. I'd like to keep these if nothing else but for "seed supply" to hopefully help the woods gain/keep oaks.

Every owner manages a small woodlot by using his own prejudices. A guy that makes maple syrup will prefer maples, a guy that likes to squirrel hunt will keep old and poor lumber trees if they contain dens. So I'm sure you get the idea. I'm not concerned about timber/wood production. I cut trees for firewood and to release other more desirable to me trees with no concern for commercial value. I do leave older dead or dying trees for den trees. These I'll let fall in their own sweet time. So I guess I manage more for wildlife than timber production.

That being said I'd like to clean out the Aspen or at the very least put a dent in it. I"m assuming that 10-15 acres of selective cutting of aspen has no value to anyone. Pulp is its only value I assume.
In this area all firewood is good hardwood.

Any thoughts other than me cutting it for firewood. I plan on using wood to heat the new house and I could burn aspen with no issues but I doubt if I'd burn more than 2-3 cords a year to heat the house. Maybe I need to research some of the local firewood producers/sellers.

Thanks again



mesquite buckeye

I would make a suggestion to look at this from exactly the opposite direction from going around trees and instead lay out the road through the trees, as in clear out any trees that line up with your desired route. You will get two benefits from this method. First, your route will end up in a better location than is likely going around trees snaking through the woods. The second benefit is that your road will be much less disturbing to the trees that remain, and those trees will actually benefit from the process as you have combined your road building with providing an opening in the canopy which will accelerate the growth of the remaining trees. You will also reduce root competition in this way.

If you want to be really tricky you can aim for trees that you want to take out anyway. Since you have opened a path, you are likely to have less trouble with hangups than you would normally experience from a normal scattered thinning.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

John Mc

I can certainly understand wanting to keep your nice White Oaks. However, I agree with Mesquite Buckeye. Rather than trying to squeeze between two trees, risking both of them, pick one and go right through it. The one you left will have more room and less risk of damage. You'll also have room for snow plowing, drainage ditches, etc. without having to worry about damaging those two trees you squeezed between.  I' d rather have one healthy, vigorous tree than two that are struggling.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Klunker

Thanks for all comments.

I may of not explained the situation very good.

Going from the road to the building site had several possibilities. I ended up choosing a longer route but I gained a flat entrance to the drive from the road. If I'd taken the shortest route I would of had a steep drive for the first 100-200 ft. In choosing a slightly longer route I wanted the drive to be square with the road. Also I wanted the drive to enter the field square. This meant a drive that went straight, turned about 45 degrees then continued straight into the field. How long these straight sections and how big and when I made the turn controlled where I went thru the woods. I wanted to go thru the relatively newer section of woods as this meant flatter. There are a few, maybe 2 dozen big oaks in this area of woods. I ended up laying out a route with no regard to what I had to cut. Then went back and adjust the straights and bend to avoid bigger trees. I don't think I added any significant length of drive and the drive doesn't weave around the trees. I ended up not even coming close to any of the trees that I wanted to keep. At first I was concerned, hence my original post. but after looking at it and redoing a couple of times it came out like I said well clear of the larger stuff. Sometimes sleeping on a issue and looking at in the light of a new day brings fresh prospective.

John Mc

It pays to take the time up front to plan things out right. Sitting in the seat of the dozer waiting to cut in the road is not the place for the planning effort.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Phorester

You will not be able to save every tree when putting in a road through the woods, so pick the ones you would like to keep and route the driveway away from them.  The following are good ideas to use when considering what trees you can save, some already mentioned:

The root system of any hardwood (deciduous) tree will spread underground about 1-1/2 to 2 times the distance the branches spread above ground.

The fine feeder roots of any tree will be in the top 6 inches to 8 inches of soil. 

So any grading, filling, compaction, etc., in the top 8 inches of soil at a distance of 1-1/2 times the branch spread will damage the root system, from minor damage the farther out from the trunk to major damage the closer you get to the trunk.  In 40 years of diagnosing tree decline in these situations, my experience is that this type of damage might not show up until 10-20 years after construction activities.

But I think an effective compromise is to stay out from under the drip line of a tree you want to save with all construction activities.  Bare minimum distance to stay away from a favored tree is 1/2 the distance from the trunk to the drip line.  But you are  courting major damage to the root system by getting that close to the trunk.  If you have to get even closer to the tree than that, cut it down when building the road or accept the fact that it will probably be dead within 20 years or so.



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