iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Box jointing on the shaper.

Started by hackberry jake, April 23, 2015, 10:13:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hackberry jake

I have a job coming up that will require a lot of box joints. The boards will be 3-1/4" wide and about 1/2" thick. I was looking into stacking 1/4" straight cutters on my shaper spindle and doing them on the shaper, but I am getting sticker shock at 7 shaper cutters and six 1/4" spacers. I bought my stackable box joint saw blade set for what one shaper cutter costs. It started putting ideas in my head about mounting saw blades on the shaper spindle... somebody tell me thats a bad idea.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

sandsawmill14

be very careful with the blade speed you may not can find high enough rpm blades to run on shaper. most of my blades are only rated at 5900 rpms  the grizzly shaper im looking at will only go down to 7000 rpms :-\  :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

beenthere

If you can be satisfied with the rpm difference mentioned, then the saw blade usually doesn't give a flat bottom to the cut. But may just need some extra grinding of the teeth.
Will be interested in what you decide to try.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Larry

I like your facebook page.  You have some good pictures.  If I had a page I would give you a like.

I was thinking the Harbor Freight 4" circle blades might work.  It doesn't say how thick but they do have the right speed rating.  Have to bore for your spindle but I think I have that figured out now.

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-in-24t-mini-table-circular-saw-blade-61243.html

Another idea is there joiner blades but I think there only 3/32" thick and a bit higher price.  They may have some other blade that would work.

If I had some steel round I might be able to turn spacers on the lathe.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

tule peak timber

Jake , if you opt for saw blades, look at rip blades as they have a flat bottom out for what you want to do.Freeborntool has probably the cheapest groovers , and they work fine. Look at Schmidt for spacers. Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

hackberry jake

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-SBOX8-Cutter-4-Inch-grooves/dp/B000ASGV1E I was looking at the freeborn groovers. They are actually cheaper than grizzly and they are made in the us. Go figure. If I used saw blades, I would use the freud box joint blades and they're rated at 9,000 rpm. My oliver shaper is 7,200 rpm. They are flat top grind and I would have the ability to switch them around to do either 1/4" grooves or 3/8" grooves.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

pineywoods

Jake, if your shaper has enough vertical travel, you should be able to hook up one of them digital readouts made for planers. Then you wouldn.t need but one cutter, just make multiple passes..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

hackberry jake

I think I am going to give up on the 8" diameter saw blades. That's be a lot of rotating carbide and it would probably sound like a helicopter taking off.
Quote from: Larry on April 24, 2015, 11:37:53 AM
I was thinking the Harbor Freight 4” circle blades might work.  It doesn't say how thick but they do have the right speed rating.  Have to bore for your spindle but I think I have that figured out now.

I may need to give these a try. @ $5 a pop, it sure would be cheap.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Darrel

Just remember that pictures of your setup will be greatly appreciated when you get it all figured out.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Just Me

What size is your spindle? I swing some pretty big cutters an my Unitronix but I have 1 1/8" spindles. I have been thinking about doing the same thing myself. I like box joints, they never fail, but are a paint to make.

Amana makes this.

http://www.amanatool.com/content/index/detail?id=51 

Reasonably priced and I am very happy with all of the cutters I have from Amana. There is also this...

http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5731-insert-adjustable-grooving-cutter-with-scorer-8-24mm.aspx?variantids=8972,0&affiliateid=10054?source=pricegrabber&gdftrk=gd

I have one of those adjustable groovers and it works well, but you would not be able to stack close enough for multiple cuts at one pass because of the body.

If your spindle/hood are big enough, I think the 8" size would give better results. I know I have slotting cutters in different diameters and the larger ones do a better job, especially coming out of the cut.

Larry

Curious what you come up with as well, Larry

johnnyllama

Jake,
  Have you considered a corrugated shaper head and some custom ground HHS knives? I've had custom knives made up to match many profiles, plus once you have the head you can use it for any knife pattern. If your boring out a 5/8 arbor hole to fit your router spindle you run the risk of getting slightly off center and out of balance.  Plus if anything goes wrong, at 7,000 + rpm's it could be a mess! I've got a 4" tall head I use for crown, etc. Or, just get the Freud set, make a sled for the table saw with an index pin, and go at it. The advantage to this approach is unlimited box depth, where as on the shaper you would be limited to a fairly shallow box depth, based on spindle height.

www.wmooreprofiles.com
www.cggschmidt.com
Turner Bandmill, NH35 tractor, Stihl & Husky misc. saws, Mini-excavator, 24" planer, 8" jointer, tilting shaper, lathe, sliding table saw, widebelt sander, Beautiful hardworking wife, 2 dogs, 2 cats, 23 llamas in training to pull logs!!!

hackberry jake

Ive thought about insert tooling, but at 1" depth on a knife with 1/4" wide cutters, id think the knife would be too weak. I have a powermatic shaper with a 1" spindle and an oliver with a 1.25" spindle. The oliver doesnt have a miter slot, but that can be worked around. The Freud box joint blades are a two blade set. Id need seven sets being 14 individual saw blades at 8" diameter. And I know a machinist thats already set up for boring out saw blades. He aint real bright but hes a decent machinist.  ;D
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Dan_Shade

how many are you making?

Do you have a table saw jig?  I don't think I'd want to use a shaper....

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

hackberry jake

I have a table saw jig and it just takes too long. The job will be building crates. On the table saw I have to make seven passes per end per slat. Thats 14 per slat or 140 passes per crate.



 
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

gfadvm

I would clamp those slats together and batch cut them with my jig on the tablesaw using the Freud box cutter set.

Larry

Quote from: hackberry jake on April 25, 2015, 02:30:18 PM
And I know a machinist thats already set up for boring out saw blades. He aint real bright but hes a decent machinist.  ;D

I heard that! ;D

Nice looking crate and original to. :)
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

mesquite buckeye

Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Just Me

I do Large kitchen drawers like that with slats but use 1/2' spacing. 1/2" would cut you cutter requirement in half. Still looks good.

Still won't be able to do the middle/end of the crate with the shaper because of reach I suspect.

What about wedged through tenons? Good look, strong, and you could set up your CNC to do most if not all of the work. It would be stronger on the bottom as well.

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: gfadvm on April 25, 2015, 09:22:52 PM
I would clamp those slats together and batch cut them with my jig on the tablesaw using the Freud box cutter set.

This is what I would do also.

rasman57

Quote from: hackberry jake on April 25, 2015, 09:04:02 PM
I have a table saw jig and it just takes too long. The job will be building crates. On the table saw I have to make seven passes per end per slat. Thats 14 per slat or 140 passes per crate.

Those look cool!  What will they be used for?  Are they a practical application for a grower, shipper, etc or are they just neat crates for display?   They look like they would be very sturdy.

hackberry jake

I made one today using 1/2" fingers and used nothing but the cnc router to make the cuts. I lined six slats up on the cnc table and started it while I was cutting more parts. It worked pretty good and with 1/2" fingers I would only need four cutters for the shaper instead of seven. The pine one is the one I built today.


 

https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Lud

Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Tom L


hackberry jake

Update. I just ordered the shaper cutters for box jointing the slats. I checked around and AHturf had by far the best deals on shaper cutters. The 1/4" cut 4" diameter straight top groovers were about half the price of a grizzly, and Freeborn cutters are American made. If you guys need shaper cutters, check em out.

http://ahturf.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=26954_22218_22220
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Larry

I order cabinet hardware from those guys.  Slow shipping sometimes, but great prices.

About half my shaper tooling is Freeborn with the other half Grizzly and other Chinese brands.  Just a guess but I would say Freeborn stays sharp maybe four times as long as the China brands.  If I was doing it as a business all my tooling would be Freeborn....cheap tooling is too expensive. :D
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Thank You Sponsors!