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Best way to load BIG logs?

Started by Verticaltrx, April 19, 2015, 10:09:35 PM

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Verticaltrx

I'm looking for tips, tricks, pics and info on the best way to load and haul large logs. I'm going to be cutting and hauling several large EWP logs (30"x16') and some large White Oak logs (30"x12'), ie in the 3000-4000+ lb range. Equipment I have to work with:a two-ton dump truck with a 14' bed and removable sides, a 15K equipment trailer (standard type with fenders and ramps), a Case 1845C skid steer (60hp, 1750lb ROC) with forks and a grapple, and a IH 454 tractor which is 40 hp, no loader.

My preferred method is to load the logs on the dump truck with the skid steer, bring them back home and dump them, but that only works on logs I can lift. Parbuckling logs up onto a truck bed that high seems a little tough/risky, but I've never tried it so I don't know.

Any thoughts, tips or trick would be much appreciated.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

fishpharmer

Using the equipment you have,  I would pick up one end of the log with the skid steer and back the trailer or dump truck under lifted end.  Then take the skid steer to the other end of the log and push it up on the dump truck or trailer, maybe both.  Getting the logs off dump should be easy.  When you get to the mill, you can hook a chain to logs and pull them off the trailer with the tractor if you need to leave the skid steer at the loading site.  May not be the best way, but should work. 
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Andre

For some reason Apollo 13 comes to mind.  This is the problem and this is what you have to work with.
But I do not think the duct tape is going to be much help.

Depending on the landscape would it be possible to move enough dirt around with the skid steer to make a loading ramp of sorts so you could just roll the logs onto the truck or trailer?
See ya
  Andre' B.

redbeard

 

  

  

   if you have forks this is a easy attachment to fabricate and get a swivel clevis to clip tongs too. Great for loading and unloading trailers and trucks. You do need someone to balance the log ( which can be a dangerous if tongs slip) have a safety plan. I had a close call one day.
Whidbey Woodworks and Custom Milling  2019 Cooks AC 3662T High production band mill and a Hud-son 60 Diesel wide cut bandmill  JD 2240 50hp Tractor with 145 loader IR 1044 all terrain fork lift  Cooks sharp

Brad_bb

I need a bracket like that.  I don't have a big stick welder to fab it.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

kelLOGg

Quote from: Brad_bb on April 19, 2015, 11:41:21 PM
I need a bracket like that.  I don't have a big stick welder to fab it.
I love to weld. Wish you were near me. I'd do it for you.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Verticaltrx

Thanks for the replies. I should also note in both cases these are in someones yard and I can't get the truck or trailer right up to the log. I'm hoping I can roll the big ones out to the edge of the yard using the skid steer. I have loaded logs before using the method of setting one end on the back of the truck and then lifting the other end and sliding them in. Usually to avoid taking the sides off the dump truck. That said, I have never tried it on logs this large. I'll certainly give this a try first,  but just trying to think of  options if the logs are too heavy to even lift one end.

If I wanted to try parbuckling them, what is the minimum sized timbers to use for ramps? The truck bed is about 4' off the ground and I'd guess I'd need the ramps to be about 8-10' long. Would a 4x6 on edge or a 6x6 be big enough for a 4000lb log? I guess when doing such the pull required is less than half the  weight of the log, so my 40hp tractor should be able to parbuckle a 4000lb log no problem?

Unloading is no problem, just raise the hoist and they come off pretty quick.  smiley_grin
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Jemclimber

Parbuckling those big logs goes quickly with a skid steer or tractor as your pulling source.  A winch will work but it's slower.  I take a 1/2 rope with each end tied to the trailer about 5 feet apart pulling on the tip of the "V" to make sure the log comes up straight.  For those size logs I use about 4 Black locust true 4x4's.
lt15

Magicman

Parbuckling (cross hauling) is an option, but never...ever allow anyone to be downhill of the log.  Bad stuff could happen.  This is loading a 42" butt log with an 8K MileMarker winch.


 


 


 
I learned that I should put some old tires in the trailer bed to absorb the landing.   
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

YellowHammer

I used to do something very similar all the time with my dump trailer. Modify the tailgate so it opens from the bottom hinge like a pickup truck tailgate (I had a three way gate, opened from the top, bottom, or side).  Then mount a winch to the tongue of the trailer and a roller for the cable pass over the front top of the dump bed. (I mounted a used truck service crane to the tongue which had a small winch for hoisting and dragging. I bought it used for the price of a new winch).

Then back up to the log, tilt the bed down as close to the ground as you can, drop the tailgate like a loading ramp, hook up the winch cable to the log and simply drag the log into the bed.  It will slide easily up the metal tailgate and bed floor.  Load two or three logs side by side on the bed, tilt the bed back horizontal, close the tailgate and drive off. Much like a roll back wrecker loading a car.
I had a dump trailer with the 3,200 lb service crane. It would lift a lot of logs, but the big ones just got dragged in the back like dead fish.


  

 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

gww

yellow
I do something simular with a tilt 4x8 plywood bed trailer made out of an dodge omni axil and use a 1 ton hand come-a-long.  I pull it with an atv.  It takes me hour +/-  to load one log.  I got to do something differrent. 

I just went and got my dads kabota and am going to try and move a few logs to the mill before I take it back to him.

I am going to make something that works better with the atv for home use.

Can't decide on weather it should be a boom/winch with the tilt trailer or an arch type mover.
gww

fishpharmer

Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

gww

Fish
Think I will try that first, on a smaller scale of course.
Thanks
gww

Tom the Sawyer

07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

gww

Tom
Thanks for the vidio.  My pop has a double axil trailer along the lines of yours.  I drive a 3/4 dodge diesel.  If I wanted to haul a couple of logs to a mill and sell and was loading with a backhoe.  would you say what you had on your trailer in the vidio was close to the load limit of the trailer? 

As you can tell I am green.  I cut a 18 inch butt and 14/15 inch top right at ten foot long oak and even after I got it on the mill I had one heck of a time rolling it with a 4 foot cant hook. 

Loggs are heavy and I am wondering using the visual of your vidio logs, which I am guessing to be about double of the log I cut,  How many could your trailer haul at one time?
Thanks
gww

Tom the Sawyer

gww,

Those two sycamore logs I picked up from the tree service were pretty big, combined they would have been about 6000 lbs.  It is a 10k GVWR trailer with an effective cargo capacity of about 7500 lbs. or so.  I wouldn't have put another, similar, log on there (fortunately there wasn't one as it was about 45 miles each way). 

I use an app on my phone (SawLogCalc Pro) to calculate the log weights and err on the light side.  It isn't that obvious but if you build something like these loaders, install trailer jacks on each rear corner.  That much weight concentrated on the rear end of a trailer could easily lift the rear of your tow vehicle with potentially disastrous consequences.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

gww

Tom
I can't tell the differance in trees except maby some yard trees.  Once I get in the woods everything is either oak, hickory, or cedar.

I don't have a smart phone but thanks for the app.

I didn't notice the jacks, so thanks for mentioning.

I was thinking you load might be close but thankyou for breaking it down in an understandable fassion.  I am sure the axils on dads trailer is probly rated very simular.  I don't have an ideal of prices of wood but selling to a sawmill would maby make using a trailer like these maby not very efficiant after paying for gas unless the mill was pretty close.  It will probly work fine for the loggs I want to butcher on my homemade mill. 

The boom ideal I will probly use on my own land and one logg at a time is fine and the 18 inch tree I cut is on the big side of my trees.

I am thinking my little 4x8 foot trailer that I have been using will be ok with it if it makes it where I don't spend hours just getting the log on and off the trailer.  I am using a come-a-long now so it will never be fast. 

Thank you for the info and vidio.
gww

Tom the Sawyer

gww,

An extremely common configuration for double-axle, bumper-pull, trailers on the road is probably rated for 7000 lbs. GVWR.  Called "car-haulers", "utility trailers", etc.  Usually from 14-18' long, many have a tube or angle iron railing around the perimeter.  A trailer like those should weigh about 1800 pounds which leaves you a payload of about 5200 lbs.

Although the app is very helpful, you can also find similar functions in the Forestry Forum Extras under Toolbox.  You mentioned 18" diameter logs so I'll use that for an example.  The calculator shows that an 18"x8'6" red oak would weigh about 1000 pounds (961) and would yield about 100 bf (98 Doyle).  That would mean that you would be within the GVWR for your trailer if you loaded 5 - 18" diameter by 8'6" red oak logs and that would be about 500 bf to sell at the mill.

You'll need to know a few things about your tow vehicle, such as whether it can safely pull 7000 pounds and what your operating costs per mile are.  Even if it is your everyday driver, you'll at least have the cost of fuel to get the load to the mill.  If you average 10 miles per gallon, at $2.50 per gallon, that's .25 per mile (both ways).  If it is 25 miles to the mill then fuel cost would be $12.50 for the trip. 

If logs such as yours are bringing .35 p/bf then you could expect $175 for your load.  Fuel costs knock that down to $162.50.  Are your logs, and your labor, worth that?  Those are just simple example figures.  Higher fuel costs, vehicle expenses, driving distance, paying stumpage, hiring help, actual mill prices (with downgrades, scales, etc.) certainly must be considered.
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

gww

I mostly just want to saw a couple boards, build a couple bee hives maby a small shed or chicken coop.  I just want to play and goof off.  My brother wants to build a lake and about 3 to 3.5 acres is wood.  I am just seeing if using the equiptment availible to me would make it worth while to salvage any of that 3 acre in some way.

I can do my hoby with the little ole trees on my place.  His will just go to waste unless there is some way to recoup and there may not be or it may not be worth it. 

So I am just trying to learn how to do things just in case.

You have been very helpful and your examples show me not only what but also how to look at things and also where to look.

A guy can't ask for more then that.
Thanks
gww 


gww

I do have one question.  About 20 years ago I stoped by a saw mill and ask what they were paying for logs.  I don't remember what they were paying but do remember that at that mill they were paying the same price per board foot no matter what the species or quality of the logs.  Is that common practice? 
Thanks
gww

beenthere

I suspect there were logs that the quality wasn't acceptable and they wouldn't pay "the same" for them.
But can see where the same price per bdft for all logs might work quite well.. as what they paid was for the lowest quality they would accept. The better ones were the more profitable ones.

As long as the mill kept enough log supply coming in with that price structure (or lack of structure ;) ), then likely they would continue on that basis.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

gww

beenthere
Is there a schedule for dummys or general price structure that a guy could look at while the timber is standing that allows him to compare if what is in the woods is worth messing with?  I have a son inlaw that looks over timber and takes bids from cutters.  He has a foristery degree and was valavictorian of his class.  He could look but they live 3 hours away and just had my new grandbaby and are kind of tyied up, so I am picking on you guys.
Thanks
gww

beenthere

Others on here are more expert than I am, but am thinking the price structure originates with the buyer (sawmill) and is adjusted to fit the demand of the buyer with respect to other buyers he/she competes against for the same logs. Some buyers will be able to grade the logs in some form to be able to pay more for better logs, and less for low quality logs. Some logs are so low in quality that the sawn products do not pay to put it through the sawmill. Then the variety of buyers for the sawn products comes into play... be it for structural timbers, NHLA grade lumber (if hardwoods), cants, pallet stock, blocking, etc. and/or re-selling logs to veneer log buyers.
All this information floats back to the logger trying to come up with a price that can be paid for the trees, or forester who may be juggling the best management decisions for the forest.
It is a complicated hodge podge of supply and demand and the end result doesn't make having a schedule of general price structure available, as I see it.
Past history of log sales may be the best source of information, and sometimes that "history" is tough to come by if sales figures are not released for public info.

Maybe others can say it better or even come with a better answer for your schedule. Keep asking any questions you have and help will be along.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

gww

Beenthere
Naw, Thats all right.  You answered well enough for me.  I was curious about the veneer and weather the uneducated seller would even know if he was doing well or bad.  I guess it is like most things, you check a couple places and decide which one you want to work with.  Since I am on a moving big logs thread, I guess I will just throw my off topic questions in a far and few inbetween places and let this thread get back on topic.

I'm the lucky one, I found something I am going to try for moving logs and got a few bonus answers thrown in.

Thank you very much.
gww

Tom the Sawyer

gww,

I generally mill other people's logs and will sometimes buy logs.  I don't sell logs so much of my local knowledge comes from people who want to sell me logs.  That usually means that the large, commercial, mills rejected them or their logs.  Check with your local mills before considering felling or hauling logs for money.  You need to have a market.

The largest mill in our area reportedly won't let you in if you have less than 10 logs and they must be a minimum of 16" tops, with 6" trim.  Those with fewer, or smaller, logs are left to try to find someone else to buy their logs.  I do get some nice logs but usually they are offering odd lengths or smaller diameters and just a few at a time.  I usually buy 2-12 logs at a time, which works fine with my current business model.

07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

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