iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Starting A Portable Sawmill Business

Started by FeltzE, September 05, 2004, 01:27:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

FeltzE

I saw an artical in the Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine Starting a Portable Sawmill Business which covers about 6 or so pages written by George Tremblay. For anyone who is contemplating starting up or anyone who is just starting this is a very well written article and covers the majority of issues we often talk about on the forum. It contains excellent points throughout.

Eric

sigidi

Hiya Eric,

T'riffic thx.

Does anyone know if this is just a local publication that is, for the US or do you think it would be available over here in OZ?

I'll check the local newsagent but he isn't here just now. :D
Always willing to help - Allan

DanG

I would think they would be glad for you to subscribe, Sigidi. It ain't on the newsstands here, either. Anybody know if they have a website?
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Hammy

C. Hammond
Petersons

sprucebunny

I'd been putting off subscribing to that one "cause I already get tons of magazines but you convinced me and I signed up.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Bibbyman

I think they'll send you one free copy to sample. ::)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Hammy

This is by no means an attempt to start a riot so just take it easy ok. But the whole band Vs circular topic raised in this article got me wanting some feedback from you bandies.

He mentions band blades cost $20 compared with a circular at $150. The case for a bandsaw looks convincing here, but when you read on further, he says he has 90 blades in stock to rotate with servicing & the different profiles. Thats $1800 worth of  blades!!!! Plus, he sends 15 a time to get serviced costing $7.50 each ($112.50), AND he has to keep buying new blades to replace rejects!! He only gets 700 b/f out of a blade cutting ideal logs.

I would say 3 blades on a swinger mill would allow you to be doing all that he is doing, on his costing is only $450 & you have them for years! Sharpening is done on site & you retip every 1-2 weeks full time use.

The blade maintainence seems incredibily high for those bands he talked about, is that about right?



C. Hammond
Petersons

TomFromStLouis

I think your math looks good as far as it goes, but it ignores that which the bandmillers brag on the most: thinner kerf. wider kerfs cost money too, just not as obviously.

FeltzE

Hammond,

Your math is good and on the right track, but there are a lot of other factors to look at in the perverbial KERF WARS  :o

First there is no need to stock that many bands unless you are going to hire out your resharpening to an outside service. I routinely keep only 20-30 blades on hand maximum, that allows me to guarantee that I have 10 spares for a day on the road and some new ones on the rack if they start breaking. My blades cost me $19 each including delivery.

There is a swinger frame parked behind my barn which belongs to a friend of mine. TWO nails cost him over $100 in retipping and regrinding. A replacement blade thru the manufacturer over $200 each, Send one in to some of the local circle blade mfrs and they can make them cheaper. But my bands risk only $19 each on tramp metal. This is an important note for me as I get mostly residential timber. VERY HIGH IRON content!!!! ::) Often I can hit a nail finish the cut, swap blades, put the damaged blade on the sharpener and recover it at no appreciable cost. I have found that commercial resharp services will often scrap a blade well before it has reached its usefull life. They returned many blades to me before I bought my sharpener. Now everything gets sharpened till it breaks or I lose more than 2 teeth.

Personnally I think that keeping your blade inventory low and owning a sharpener is good business sence, but thats in another thread somewhere on the forum. It costs just as much initially to buy the sharpener as to own the extra blades.

The swingers don't have to play catch up edging either. I don't think the kerf issue is key unless you are buying high grade hardwoods sawing them and selling grade lumber at higher scales than the typical 1.5 inch bandmiller handles.

Swingers never surf...

Bands cut wider boards...

and the list goes on...

Eric

Gipper

Eric

Very good article you referred to in the magazine.  Another good article in the same issue about a neighbor of yours and I believe a FF member.  The article is titled TreeCycling and features Kyle Edwards of Iron Station, North Carolina.  Congrats Kyle on making the publication!  Way to go. 8)


Arthur

Eric

Swingers arnt the only circular saws available. you can get twin blades that cut as wide a board as the small band mills and swingers like the EcoSaw can cut 16" boards.

There are numerous articles on kerf.  This one is short and sweet http://www.doublecut.com/kerf.asp

As for cutting nails I learnt that you need to always use a metal detector when milling the butt log.  Even in the middle of the bush these logs have had steel pickets, barbed wire, guns, horse shoes, etc.  I hit a bridge spike.

EZ

In the long run, all of us that has a mill, know matter what kind, if its factory built or home built, we have alot of money tied up in them and I for one am proud of my bandmill. We are all in this together. One thing I might say about my bandmill is, it is very portable. I can pull in a job and 5 or 10 minutes I'm sawing.
EZ

FeltzE

Gipper,

I talked to him last year about the business and geting a government grant. Kyle is a stand up guy with a good business plan. NC offers a recycling program  grant system (I'm not sure if it's available this year) that he applied for. You have to be willing to leverage your own money or bank loans too. The gov't isn't going to give money unless you are going to put up some too. I do need to get out and visit though Kyle is only about 3 hrs west of me.

Art, I'm sorry I didn't mean to exclude anyone.

Eric

Hokiemill

Aaaaahh the debate continues.  I guess there is no right answer.  Each person has different requirements and each type of mill addresses the requirements in their own way.  My woodworking shop (and most others) has a tablesaw and a bandsaw because they are great at cetain tasks.

Now that I've stated the obvious - FeltzE, those retipping prices look awfully high.  I have five blades for my 6" swinger.  Four came with it (I bought it used) and I bought a brand new one for about $110 as a reference point (baileys has lowered prices - $99).  Of the four used blades, two had good but dull tips and two had ruined or no tips.  Ten new tips cost me about $15.  I took all four to a local saw shop, had two blades resharpened and balanced and the other two were retipped and balanced.  Total charge of $50.

Tom



Beam kit.  Total cost less than $500.
Sharpening system, $5.00 each.

The Intimate Sawyer.   ;D

mudpupdave

I found a web site you can order this magazine and any back issues you want too. The web site is:
www.sawmillmag.com
hope it helps---David

Gilman

Band vs Circular?  What are you guys talking about, you are all making this way too complicated.  The decision was easy, I just picked a color that I like!  ;D



See? I have blue eyes, thus I needed an orange mill... I keep this color wheel on top of my dresser to make sure I don't clash when sawing.
WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

Mobilesawyer

It seems to me (and I think the mill manufactures will like this solution) that we should all go out and buy a other style mill.
Bandies buy a swinger to compilment their bandsaw and vice versa. I think the world would then see peace in this century. :D

FeltzE

There is a band in front of the barn, a swinger behind the barn, and if all fails an old frick circular setting on pallets to be put together next to the barn,

A saw for every need....  8)

Got to admit though the swinger isn't mine. It's here sawing occasionally as a friend learns the trade.

Eric

Paschale

Eric,

Do you remember what month issue that article was in?  Sounds like it'd be worth tracking down.  They're going to be here for a WW show next weekend offering some free issues--I'd like to request that one if I can.  

Thanks!

Dan
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

pnyberg

I've been walking through time in the archives.  Actually, I'm making a second pass.  There's lots of good stuff back there, but it is time consuming.

I saw a post from Jeff in the way-back that said that bumping up old but relevant posts was an acceptable activity, so I'm going to do it for this one.  The issue of Sawmill & Woodlot referenced at the top of this thread is #46.  The issue is available for download on their website for $3.00.  I found the article informative, and worth the price, and I haven't even looked at the rest of the issue yet. 

I found myself wondering if the author of the article is still an active sawyer.  I came up empty on an internet search.

--Peter
No longer milling

Thank You Sponsors!