black walnut saplings

[ktowne030311]

Hey guys, so I've got about 250+ black walnut saplings I'm getting ready to plant. My question is how far apart should they be planted from eachother? I have plenty of spce, and the plan is to harvest the trees when I get older

[beenthere]

Planted my walnut on 10 x 10 spacing and it is none too close.

But you won't likely live long enough to harvest any of them. Just sayin... it will be for someone else unless you live for 80 more years at least and likely 100.   

[Texas Ranger]

Harvest depends on location, soil, etc.  I had harvest ready walnut in less than 50 years.

[SwampDonkey]

But not in New York. :D ;)

[ktowne030311]

The goal is to get them planted. And maybe by the time I'm 60, which is in 35 years... I can harvest them and have a nice chuck set aside for "retirement". Does this sound plausable?

[SwampDonkey]

Not in 35 years in NY climate. Hardwood grows slow up north, but walnut probably grows faster than sugar maple. But size and clear wood is where the money is. A 10-12" dbh tree is just starting to put some size to it and that takes a long time to get to. Sure a yard tree can get that big faster than in the woods, but how long/tall will it be? 35 or 75? ;D

[beenthere]

And they will be about that diam. in 35 years as SD suggests.
My 800 walnut have been growing in the 10 x 10 spacing now since 1971 (so 38 years).  The bigger ones may be pushing 12" dbh. They were kept weed free for the first 20 years and then just the grass mowed since that time. Have fertilized heavy three times during that time.

If I had to do it over again, I would plant a cedar bush on the southwest side of each walnut tree to protect from freeze/thaw damage in the early spring. Don't know if that would work, but think it would help some. Just happens in the first 1-2' of the ground on that side.

[sandhills]

beenthere, would you mind expanding a little on the freeze/thaw damage, and also what kind of cedar.  Thanks in advance.

[beenthere]

I'll try to get some pics soon. Appears to me that the lower trunk of the tree warms in the early spring, some sap flows (maybe some growth begins), but then freezes at night causing some cracking and damage under the bark. 
The idea of a small cedar or yew bush shading that side of the tree might keep the temp. of the bark down and keep that area frozen.
Just a thought, with little more behind the idea.
A bit like covering the strawberry plants with straw or hay to keep the ground frozen longer so the growth doesn't begin too soon and then gets frozen back.

[LeeB]

Hmm, shows how much I know(mostly nothing). I thought the straw was to keep it from freezing. That's what we use it for in the South. Interesting that it's for just the opposite in the north.

[SwampDonkey]

I don't think you could hurt a strawberry plant much. I have dug plants up, and bundled them, then placed them in grocery bags so they are not air tight, and kept them frozen 2 years in the freezer. Transplant them and grow a new crop. They are tough. ;D

[ktowne030311]

what's the average a walnut tree at 12" and 35ft tall go for?

[beenthere]

Other than for firewood, don't think there would be much of any lumber market for that size.

Now that doesn't exclude some novelty markets such as for wedding table center pieces, or candle holders, or for wood turners.

Had a walnut buyer look at some of my walnut that I didn't plant that are at the 20" dbh, and he thought another 10-15 years might be better for better value. There are several walnut in the 15-20" dbh range .

One of our FF members from MN was itching for some walnut to saw, so invited him down to get one back in 2012. @Mike N came and we cut one down and sent him home with a trailer load from a 22" dbh tree.
Story here:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,59785.msg886093.html#msg886093

[ktowne030311]

That's some nice looking wood, beenthere

[Texas Ranger]

Black Walnut (Juglans nigra)
By Ken Mudge
If the idea of growing temperate nut trees as part of a forest farming system appeals to you, then the Eastern Black Walnut (Juglans nigra) should be high on your list of candidate species. LH MacDaniels, a pioneer of North Amercian nut culture provided a ringing endorsement for nut trees in general in his 1981 extension bulletin, Nut Culture In North America
"Planting nut trees is particularly appropriate because of the loss in recent years of the American elm to the Dutch elm disease and the decline of the white ash and hard maple in some areas. Fence rows and other areas now growing up to weeds and brush if planted to appropriate nut trees would contribute substantially to future food supply, erosion control, wildlife refuges, and in the case of black walnut, to a valuable timber resource...planting of nut trees for noncommercial purposes should be encouraged . . . . Whenever a shade tree is planted it might as well be a nut tree of one of the better varieties."
Regarding black walnuts in particular they should be of interest to woodlot owners in the North East because they not only produce a highly regarded nut crop that is both tasty and nutritious, but also, in due time the tree can be harvested for its high quality timber which is among the two or three most valuable timber species in the North East. Although nut production does not reach commercial levels until the tree is about 20 years old, trees will begin bearing a harvestable crop by about 8 years of age, or even sooner if it is a selected (grafted variety). Disadvantages include the fact that black walnut "toxicity" can inhibit the growth of some other species, such as tomato, growing in the vicinity of its root system, and black walnut is susceptible to Fusarium and Nectria canker disease in some areas.
Black walnut occurs widely within the Northeast, as a common species within the Oak-Hickory forest type. It is found on better sites characterized by deep, well drained soils of neutral pH. It is typically found on cooler north or northeast facing slopes and in forest valleys where soil moisture is high but not flooded or poorly drained. Successful planting of black walnut trees depends on finding soils similar to those were it is found naturally.
New trees can be established from high quality seed from northern sources, available from selected wild trees locally or from one of the following companies.
FW Schumacher Seed Company
36 Spring Hill Rd. Sandwich, MA 02563-1023
Phone 508-888-0659
Sheffield Seed Co.
269 Auburn Road, Route 34
Locke, New York 13092
Phone: 315-497-1058 Email: seed@sheffields.com
Website: www.sheffields.com
The very best quality black walnut can be assured by planting clonal (grafted) varieties selected for superior yield of nuts, earliness of bearing, disease resistance and cracking quality. Some of the most popular varieties include the old standard, Thomas, as well as others like Emma K, Kwik Krop, and several Purdue University selections including Purdue # 1.
Two commercial sources of grafted walnut cultivars in New York are:
John Gordon Nursery
1385 Campbell Blvd, Amherst, NY 14228-1403
Phone: 716-691-9371
Website: http://www.geocities.com/nuttreegordon/0Kgordon.htm
Grimo Nut Nursery
979 Lakeshore Rd., R.R. 3
Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario, Canada LOS 1JO
Phone: 905-935-6887
Website: http://www.grimonut.com
Additional black walnut cultivars are described at the Purdue University New Crops website (http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1990/V1-327.html#Table%201), but commercial sources of grafted nursery stock may not be easy to find. For the ambitious forest farmer there is always the option of grafting selected cultivars on seedlings planted on your site or even onto wild walnut trees (top working). The extension bulletin, Nut Culture in North America by LH MacDaniels, 1981 describes appropriate grafting methods, and the Northern Nut Growers Association (NNGA) maintains a "Scion swap" list of other (mostly) amateur nut growers with scion wood to exchange, as well as a list of experts for each of the temperate nut species. Seeds, seedlings, or grafted nursery trees should be planted in full sun, so in the case of forest farming in an established wood lot that means either planning to manage and harvest wild nut trees within an existing forest canopy, or else planting (seed, seedlings, or grafted nursery stock) on the perimeter of your wood lot or gaps where shading will not inhibit tree growth and nut production.
Once walnut trees are established on your site or existing young wild trees are identified they can be managed either primarily for nut or timber production or both, although the latter is a compromise between the two management styles. In the case of existing wild walnut trees within a woodlot or forest site, "release" thinning and stand improvement to improve light interception by your nut trees is one way to increase productivity. In the case of newly planted trees in open gaps within or on the perimeter of your woodlot there are several different management options. If you want to encourage optimal nut production, the trees should be planted at a fairly wide spacing, beginning at approximately 20 x 20' and eventually, over the next 20 to 35 years as the canopy closes, thinned to as much as 40 x 40'. Pruning to encourage relatively low forking of the main trunk will promote a broad spreading crown to maximize nut production and ease of harvesting. Optimal management for timber production, on the other hand, involves spacing and pruning to develop a tall straight bole (butt log) that is "clean" (free of branches and knots) to maximize timber value. This is done by closer spacing (10' to 15' centers) of the trees so that self shading will inhibit lateral branch production and pruning any branches that do arise before they reach 2 inches in diameter, up to a height of 12 to 16 feet or more. This tends to delay canopy development and increase the difficulty of harvesting nuts. The "nut / timber" compromise involves an intermediate spacing and clear pruning of the main trunk up to about 9 to 12 feet. If you have any intentions of your self or your heirs harvesting black walnut trees for timber avoid at all cost things that will reduce the value of a harvested log for veneer or lumber. This includes low forking, branches, knots (from pruning large branches), frost cracks, insect or woodpecker damage, and especially any sort of metal in the tree (nails, fencing staples, barbed wire, etc.) Weed control by mulching, cultivation or herbicides is very important during the first several years of establishment, and fertilization will be beneficial as well. Detailed recommendations can be found in the extension publication by Walter Bienke, Purdue University Coop Extension, Black Walnut Plantation Management, FNR 119 (http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-119.html).
Marketing of black walnuts can either be done locally (farmers markets, etc.) or through the single major commercial buyer of black walnut, Hammond Nut Company (http://black-walnuts.com/hulling.asp) which lists locations throughout the eastern and Midwestern US where they will purchase walnuts. No sites are listed for NY State, but several are listed for PA

[Texas Ranger]

[PDF]Growing Walnut for Profit and Pleasure - State of Indiana
www.in.gov/dnr/forestry/files/fo-Growing_Walnut.pdf
Indiana
popularity of American black walnut is directly attributed to the ... intolerance, it is not recommended for inter-planting under existing trees. .... sprouting, and this new growth may not be ready for the first frost in the fall. ...... Hamburg, New York. 37.

roughly the same region as New York.

[beenthere]

I'll try to get some pics soon. Appears to me that the lower trunk of the tree warms in the early spring, some sap flows (maybe some growth begins), but then freezes at night causing some cracking and damage under the bark. 
The idea of a small cedar or yew bush shading that side of the tree might keep the temp. of the bark down and keep that area frozen.
Just a thought, with little more behind the idea.
A bit like covering the strawberry plants with straw or hay to keep the ground frozen longer so the growth doesn't begin too soon and then gets frozen back.

Here are a couple pics of the SW side of some walnut trees to show the bark indicators of damage to the cambium layer that I think is from frost damage.



  

 

[Devon]

Correct term is "sun scald".  Sometimes painting the trunks with white latex paint is enough to prevent sun scald.  Tree tubes will also help as they shade the trunks.

[SwampDonkey]

It's not the same as sun scald, even though the sun is involved. The warm sun on the trunk in early spring is causing some growth to occur. I can't recall the process of awakening from dormancy to beginning growth too well, but there are special cells called daughter cells that begin to divide in the cambium. If newly divided cells get killed by frost you get damage.

It's been a long time ago since that course, and if you don't use it in work it fades away. ;D