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4 deg. blades and knotty logs

Started by DMcCoy, April 13, 2015, 08:51:04 AM

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DMcCoy

I have been using 7 deg blades in Doug fir.  The knots are creating waves, especially the spike knots.
I try new blades, going slower, more tension.  The knots are @ 2-3" in 16"+ logs.
Not so bad in full width cuts but cutting the easy way through cants is another deal altogether.
Suggestions?

Magicman

I have never sawn Doug Fir, but I have found that when sawing mature trees, knots are bad, regardless of the species.  During the past couple of weeks, I have had to resort to 4° blades while sawing 26"+ White Oak and Pine logs.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

DMcCoy

I think Doug Fir is a little tougher than Pine but the knot issues would be similar.
Anything you do special?
Have you used 4 deg blades in knotty logs?

Magicman

Quote from: DMcCoy on April 13, 2015, 09:11:44 AMAnything you do special?
Have you used 4 deg blades in knotty logs?
Yes, I use plenty of "Cascade" lube to keep the blade free of pitch buildup, and yes, 4° blades do very well with knotty Pine.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Ga Mtn Man

Did you notice any difference in your cutting speed with the 4° blades?
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Remle

I only use 10 degree blades so no comments on blades but, have you tried cutting the log from the small end ? I've had better luck that way, the blade cuts the grain at a steeper angle and dose not seem to follow the long sloping grain while cutting from the larger end. For but logs I cut from the large end/ butt, for the same reason.

Peter Drouin

Instead of going slow go faster and see what happens. A lot of times the tooth will eat the knot and cut flat, go slow and it will ride up over, A sharp blade will cut flat. And if you go real slow you won't live long enough to get the log cut.  :D :D Have a sharp blade and try it.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

barbender

I just sharpened some blades on my Cook's sharpener to 4°, my initial impression on white oak is good, but I haven't sawn enough to know for sure how I like it. From what I've read on here, I am hoping to gain a couple of things- 1.Increased stability in the cut and 2.Hopefully holding an edge longer the dry white oak dulls blades fast.
Too many irons in the fire

Magicman

My personal experience is that the 4° blades dull faster.  Since they are closer to 90°, they are doing more "scraping" where the 10° blades do more "cutting".  Just my experience, and reason for those thoughts.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

caveman

Yesterday Jmoore and I quarter sawed some big live oak slabs using a 4° blade. Until this blade/job, we have only used 10° blades.  The 4° blade sawed flat and left a nice, smooth finish.  The blade did cut slower at the end of the day.  Initially, I am pleased with the 4° blades in what is usually a challenging wood to saw.  Also, we decided to coil and tie the 10° bands with a red zip tie (three letters in ten/red and tie the 4°'s with another color).

  

 
This log was 48" on the big end and we were using smallish saws (545 and 359 Husqvarnas to rip).
Caveman
Caveman

Nomad

     Caveman, calling Live Oak "challenging" is like calling the Grand Canyon a hole in the ground.  I'm glad to hear 4 degree blades worked on it; I'm ready to get some of 'em too.  I absolutely hate sawing live oak!!!
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Dave Shepard

I've heard live oak is some of the toughest sawing around. The only live oak I know of in MA is in the ocean. Jim_Rogers sawed some up that had been submerged for a long time. Tough going.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

customsawyer

Live oak is like sawing pecan. Some logs are easy and some are knot. ;D
@DMcCoy are the 7° blades you are using, are they the turbos or the regular?
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
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WDH

On no.  The mention of sawing pecan gives me nightmares.  Live oak is probably worser. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

Then would Hickory be more worser??   ???
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Magicman on April 13, 2015, 09:16:14 PM
.......... more worser??   ???

You're one of dem that talks funny ain't you?  ;D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

BCsaw

DMcCoy, I cut a lot of Doug Fir with 10° blades and no issues. I sawed a 35" diameter log yesterday and it had some big knots, again no issues.

I have had some issues with waves on really wide cuts though. One issue was a dulling blade. Easy fix. There was also a time or two that the blade seemed sharp enough but still tended to surf. Thanks to the forum and advice from guys like Peter, I experimented pushing faster. My instinct was to slow down in the wide cuts, but I tried going faster and kept the engine "well into the governor". Success. Thanks Peter D! :D ;D
Inspiration is the ability to "feel" what thousands of others can't!
Homebuilt Band Sawmill, Kioti 2510 Loader Backhoe

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Wider cuts need lower head speed due to the blade having more flex when the blade guides are at their widest.
This pertains to all blades.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

BCsaw

Understand that I only have 13hp. I do not have the speed capabilities of a lot of people on here. My sawing quicker does not amount to a whole lot, but I believe it was forced to cut through as opposed to finding another path.

My 2 cents.
Inspiration is the ability to "feel" what thousands of others can't!
Homebuilt Band Sawmill, Kioti 2510 Loader Backhoe

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

4x4American

I like the 4 degree blades in frozen pine, what do you guys like for summer time pine sawing?
Boy, back in my day..

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: 4x4American on April 13, 2015, 10:08:09 PM
I like the 4 degree blades in frozen pine, what do you guys like for summer time pine sawing?

I use the 4 degree and LOTS OF LUBE in the resin days of summer.  ;D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Peter Drouin

Quote from: 4x4American on April 13, 2015, 10:08:09 PM
I like the 4 degree blades in frozen pine, what do you guys like for summer time pine sawing?




Get some 7°/ 55 and give her some. :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Peter Drouin

Quote from: BCsaw on April 13, 2015, 09:50:24 PM
Understand that I only have 13hp. I do not have the speed capabilities of a lot of people on here. My sawing quicker does not amount to a whole lot, but I believe it was forced to cut through as opposed to finding another path.

My 2 cents.





A lot of guys think If I go slow it will cut flat, And all your doing is dulling the blade. ;D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

bandmiller2

Just because its softwood doesn't mean it will cut easy what causes the problem is the soft to hard interface. I have had bands doing the wave in knotty pine but rolled an oak log on and it cut perfect boards. This contradicts what most say but it seems to me too much set in knotty pine does not give the back of the band any guidance and leaves it free to dodge and dive around knots. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

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