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Missed it

Started by Peter Drouin, April 08, 2015, 08:13:05 PM

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Peter Drouin

When I scale logs I look for sweep, and rot, and bugs, shake. And knots that let in rot. This one I missed.   arg-smiley :D :D


 
Rot from the side, I did not see it from the ends. When I buy logs by the board foot I lose money on this one.
It happens, But I don't like it. :D :D :D
Any one scale logs and miss stuff too?
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

WV Sawmiller

Peter,

   Sorry to see the bad spot on your log. Do you think the logger knew it and deliberately stiffed you? How do the loggers catch such as this? Will the logger make it good if you tell him? If I were getting higher % bad wood from the same guy while getting consistently good wood from others I'd stop buying from him or adjust my rates to him accordingly.

    I don't buy logs but I did recently cut a locust off my place for a pole barn and when I went to square it up I found the center rotten while both ends were good so I scrapped it for that purpose. I never knew till I opened it up.

    I hate it but I suspect a certain amount of this is just cost of doing business.

    Besides, isn't part of the mystique of sawing the fact we always wonder what we will find when we open every new log? If every log were the same we'd all go back to selling women's shoes for a living wouldn't we? I guess finding an occasional bad log is part of the reason that makes it that much more exciting when we open a truly spectacular log.

    Better luck next time.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

sandsawmill14

Any one scale logs and miss stuff too?
[/quote]

nooo I have never missed a bad spot in a log  ;D  use your x-ray vision thats what I do :D :D :D

now seriously happens pretty regular especially with bottom land/ wetland timber
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

DRB

Thats why you have to buy for a lot less then you can sell for.  No one catches all the hidden defects you have to assume some of every log will be trash.  Not to mention some of the boards will crack and warp in way you can not imagine. 

rooster 58

Yup. I buy a lot of tie logs. And it's amazing to see logs that look sound that when you saw them down to the last cut and then see that puff of dust shoot out and you know you hit a hole. Or a nice butt log that looks great but was wet when you scaled it. Then when you saw it down for a tie you discover heart rot ;)

Peter Drouin

It's all part of buying logs. What I do is put the BF on the end of the logs when I scale them. And put the deduction too, like a log with a sweep. I look at the numbers, then cut it, add up the lumber and see how well I did with the scale. [There is a math formula for this]
I find if you do that It will help with the scale to see how good you are. And when I look at a log I can say I have seen that before. :D :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Cedarman

ERC is extremely prone to have bad places that are not obvious from the ends or sides.  Plan B, C, and D come into play quite often when sawing.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

loggah

Sometimes that redrot just appears in logs where both ends look good !!! >:(
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

WH_Conley

I have bought thousands of logs and been surprised many times. Sometimes a log doesn't look that good and cuts good to the heart. You win some, you lose some. Just the cost of doing business.
Bill

Magicman

Since I do not buy I do not scale logs, but I do sometimes miss seeing hidden rot indicators and open logs that have internal rot.  It cost me and the customer lumber, but I guess that is part of sawing.  Don't we all wish that all logs were as they should be....perfect.   ;)   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

red

Making a Round Log Square
It would be much easier to just buy Square Logs
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Percy

Quote from: Peter Drouin on April 08, 2015, 08:13:05 PM
When I scale logs I look for sweep, and rot, and bugs, shake. And knots that let in rot. This one I missed.   arg-smiley :D :D


 
Rot from the side, I did not see it from the ends. When I buy logs by the board foot I lose money on this one.
It happens, But I don't like it. :D :D :D
Any one scale logs and miss stuff too?
I call this Las Vegas Rot.
I've learned to examin the Knotts carefully on a log or look for some kind  of boil/defect  as it always dont show up on the ends as Peters pictures show.....still a roll of the dice......when it turns out beautiful as opposed to rot......that dont seem to happen as much....
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Lumber Grader

Scaling logs and deducting for rot, sweep, taper, etc. is not a perfect science.

The best log scaler will always be an experienced sawyer, as he knows more what indicates internal rot, etc.

Just like your best hardwood grade sawyer will always be a guy that is a top-notch hardwood lumber inspector, as he is looking for the best face to saw and knows when to turn a log to continually be sawing for highest lumber grade and highest dollar value.

Most sellers tend to scale logs from a seller's view and most buyers scale logs from a buyer's view and that why some logger's will not sell to some sawmills.

Looking at the lumber you sawed, it looks like it would have been very hard to spot this internal rot, as it appears from the photo, that healthy wood grew around it and only Superman has x-ray vision!!!

How long have you been scaling logs and what log scale do you use???

What specie is this lumber????

Wishing you the best and don't beat yourself up over one log!

Kindest Regards,
Lumber Grader

Magicman

The above instance is the prime reason that except for one customer, I always saw ERC hourly rate.  That way when I saw into a rotten/doty log, I still bet paid.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

terrifictimbersllc

Seeing what's inside, a tall order.  Try to get this good at it:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel+16:7&version=NIV 
:D :D :D :D
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

petefrom bearswamp

Bought a couple tri axle loads of Eastern White pine a few years ago.
Several logs had red rot not discernable from the outside.
Logger made good but doesnt want to sell me any more.
Maybe i am too fussy.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

sandsawmill14

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on April 09, 2015, 01:55:12 PM
Seeing what's inside, a tall order.  Try to get this good at it:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel+16:7&version=NIV 
:D :D :D :D

thats a good one  :) now if we could all learn to do that in life and logs  :D :D :D
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Peter Drouin

Lumber Grader, I started sawing In 1987 And scaleing. All International. I did mostly mobile sawing and sold some lumber.
But now I stay here and sell lumber full time. When the snow, If the snow goes. And it warms up I buy one or two a week like this. W Pine and Hemlock


  

 

It starting to look like a good summer coming selling lumber.
So I try to be fair to the loggers and to me. The red rot in W Pine can be a game changer. The stuff can be 2" on the end and ½ way up be the whole log. Like it hour glass in the log.
I just cut a 8' W Pine had a little red rot. 16" top end. 85BF Only got 50 BF of lumber. Paid for 60. logs with red rot should go in the pullp pile. I only get 1 or two a load and not all are bad.
Hemlock with shake can sometimes not show it self for a week or two.  :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

sandsawmill14

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on April 09, 2015, 04:59:53 PM
Bought a couple tri axle loads of Eastern White pine a few years ago.
Several logs had red rot not discernable from the outside.
Logger made good but doesnt want to sell me any more.
Maybe i am too fussy.


I have never asked a logger to make good on bad logs. If I cant see it no reason to think he can.  :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

WoodenHead

Defects are difficult to spot sometimes or assess when scaling.  I complained once to a logger because one in four EWP logs in the load had either red rot or ring shake (first time I had encountered ring shake).  Most of the logs with red rot were interior problems, so I didn't catch it until I started sawing.  There were some that were visible, but I didn't deduct enough as I scaled.  So I lost on that load, but I needed the pine because of demand.  Very frustrating, but got through it.  Since then I have been more careful and a little tougher in scaling loads.

Peter Drouin

I think some mills will drop the price per thousand for Red Rot, But pay the scale. One was paying 325 but 100 for box wood [ logs with big knots and no good face] Like I buy W Pine for 325.00 a thousand for logs with no red rot and 2½ and smaller knots, If they're red and sound 3" with 3 clear faces. I'll give them the 325. But 3" and black knots 2 clear face, it's 200.00 All have to be 12" top end. Some mills will not take 8' or 10' logs at all.
I sell a lot of 8 & 10' lumber.
So I pay the same $ for 8' or 16' and the loggers like that. Knowing that some will call and ask what I need for stock. :D :D
My thing is NO 14' logs, I sell no 14' lumber. :D :D
Logs with a bend not a sweep is box,And the logs when you cut it The board will split.
The other thing I have had truckers put the best face up when they unload, for a good grade. Like this one, the bad face was on the bottom . Where you can't see it.


 

But I have a peavy and use it If I have a ? on it.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

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