Another WM wavey wood query.

[alimo]

Hello Folks.

I am a farmer in Scotland, UK who got a Lucas sawmill back in 2006 to saw fencing to sell to local farmers and townspeople. Then in 2009 I got the chance of a four month old Woodmizer LT20 hydraulic 20hp at such a discount I had to buy it. The seller had got a similar chance to buy an LT70 and needed to raise the money fast.

Got the woodmizer home, started it up and it cut wavey wood. Since then that saw and I have come to hate each other with a vengeance. OK the blades it came with were probably needing sharpened at the outset but over the past 6 years I have just put on 600 hours on the clock because it gets disheartening to put a log on the machine and get those wavey cuts  so bad the wood has to be chucked on the slabwood pile.

Fortunately I have the Lucas as well and use it almost all the time because it either cuts straight or can be easily sharpened if it starts to wander.

But I'm 65 now and the Lucas is getting a bit too manual for me after a couple of hours while I could work the LT20 hydraulic all day - if it would only cut straight. I really want to get this machine going.

I have been through the archive and the WM manual and checked out every alignment and it seems to be all OK. So it must be the blades??? - or the operator. I have a WM sharpener but I have also used 2 other Resharp services. I felt my sharpens were as good as the Resharps so I sharpen my own now. (A clue there perhaps) I use 1.25" 10/30 WM blades. It can cut straight with a new blade on but the blade goes off a lot quicker than WM and you folks suggest it should. And it can cut straight with a home sharpened blade when it feels like it.

Cutting  18" spruce yesterday with a new blade on clean logs using the debarker I cut slabwood off the four sides plus 1st cut straight. The 2nd cut went wavey. Recalling an archive comment about going REALLY Slooow , I tried that (i.e. hardly moving)and the next cut was straighter most of the way with a couple of smaller ripples still.

But this is my real query. A friend and I have been doing everything possible over the past few days to check every alignment in the hope we can get this machine to work. So many Woodmizer owners seem to be able to cut straight wood OK and I know several owners over here who either renew their LT40's every five years or so or they upgrade to an LT 70 so Woodmizers must work for them.

Trying to cut 18" x  12' clean spruce logs with hardly any knots anywhere into 3" x3"x 6' fence posts - easy on the Lucas - we were getting 1/4" waves after a few cuts. We noticed that the blade is climbing and leaving a little slope for the first 6" or so and it drops a few millimetres when it exits at the far end. Laying the blade on top of the cut, it looks like the cut is slightly raised in the middle and lower by a few millimetres at the edges. hence the centre of the blade snaps straight again when it exits explaining the drop.

I dont know if that is just another symptom of a blunt blade (after 8 cuts??) or if it is a clue to some other alignment issues. Can anybody offer any suggestions?

LT20 is European little brother of LT40. Same bed but I assume its LT15 head It uses the same LT15 13' blades. Hydraulics are the same as LT40 but made to run slower for some reason. It could be the operator error but I have tried every possible permutation of fast slow/ wet dry/ larch pine spruce/ self sharp resharp/double tip silvertip ripper 35/ hard grind soft grind/ that is possible and still getting wavey cuts to spoil the fun.

Wife says I have to ask you folks for an opinion. Hope you can help.

Thanks.

Alistair

[Chuck White]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, alimo.

[LeeB]

When you push the blade hard, can you hear the motor straining? It could be that your drive belt is loose and you are loosing band speed. What system does the LT20 have for adjusting blade tension? Another possible culprit. Are you using any kind of blade lube? A dirty blade will not cut straight. Can you see a lot of build up on the blade surfsce when it starts to cut poorly?

[Dave Shepard]

LeeB beat me to it. I've had issues in wide pine before and checked all over for something out of alignment, only to find the belt tension was not tight enough. Welcome to the Forum!

[Dave Shepard]

Does this mill have an engine, or an electric motor?

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

And tell your wife that she is right.   8)

Dull blades will cause wavy lumber. What is causing them to become dull?  Misaligned guide rollers, dirt in the bark of the logs, or something else?

Tension on the blade as well as Lee's thought of drive belt slipping.

Pull up the stump and you will find the answer to the wavy problem. 

[LeeB]

I googled this mill and it looks much like an LT35. If all else is aligned as the OP states, I still believe it could well be drive belt issues, or a dirty blade. Waiting for a reply from alimo.

[Magicman]

The above post are all on the right track, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum, alimo.  Plus you have a smart wife. 

[Brucer]

Trying to cut 18" x  12' clean spruce logs with hardly any knots anywhere into 3" x3"x 6' fence posts - easy on the Lucas - we were getting 1/4" waves after a few cuts. We noticed that the blade is climbing and leaving a little slope for the first 6" or so and it drops a few millimetres when it exits at the far end. Laying the blade on top of the cut, it looks like the cut is slightly raised in the middle and lower by a few millimetres at the edges. hence the centre of the blade snaps straight again when it exits explaining the drop.

A crown on the log like that suggests to me that the blade is cutting a little more aggressively on the top (inside) than the bottom. This can be caused by a little extra set on the top set of teeth. It can also happen when the bottom teeth get dull a little quicker.

If your new blades consistently start off cutting straight but then start to bow up, you may have something on the mill that is dulling the bottom teeth or taking some set off them. It would have to be something barely touching the teeth; otherwise you wouldn't even get a single straight cut.

I had this happen once when my debarker got slightly out of alignment (how that happened is a whole other story :D). The debarker blade ended up positioned just high enough that the corners of the bottom teeth were cutting into dirty wood.

I never had any luck using 10° blades to make wide cuts in Spruce -- they always make waves. Switching to 7° blades makes the problem go away. However, the waves I used to get were right across the surface, and the blade went above and below the intended cut.

[5quarter]

Ditto what others have said. For the longest time, I hated spruce. Had the same trouble you are having and for quite awhile, refused to saw it. Then I came across a beautiful log.16'6", 25" top, heart perfectly centered and gun barrel straight. a lot like some of those perfect, perhaps photoshopped SYP logs that some of our southern folks like to show off. I couldn't resist. but I didn't want to screw it up, so armed with some good advice from some of the members here, I loaded her up. Opening cut was a fresh, sharp blade and the cut was wavy. Rotated log and upped the tension until the blade was rigid. cut was still wavy. pulled the blade and put on an old blade that was sharp, but had a lower hook angle (4-5°) rotated log for 3rd cut. still wavy but a teeny bit better. Rotated to make 4th cut and slowed my feed rate. even better, but still wavy. Took first blade in the shop and put it on the setter and pushed the set out from .025" to.030". swapped it on, rotated to the first position and made my 5th cut. Almost perfectly straight. Pulled the blade again and took it back into the shop and pushed the set out to .035" and touched up the edge. took it back out to the saw, swapped it back and made my 6th cut. Dead on flat; no waves. I could not feed as fast because of the increased set, but I sawed the entire log without another bit of trouble. I now have 3 blades that hang up by themselves and are marked "spruce only". I use Cooks SS Duratooth, 1¼", .042", 8° blades.
   Crowning is a different problem. Brucer pretty much covered it. If you're sharpening your own, you need to be able to accurately measure the set of your blades in order to saw good lumber. To be clear, when Brucer talks about the top and bottom teeth, I'm sure he means the inside and outside teeth. I would definitely do some checking as he suggests.   
   I have no doubt that with all the advice, you should be sawing fast and straight in no time. good luck.

[woodyone.john]

Hi Alimo,welcome.Do you have roller guides and do the teeth sit back on these when sawing .There are different rollers for different width blades.If the bottom teeth are contacting the roller that will reduce the set to those teeth.cheers john

[ozarkgem]

I had that problem for years then I read a article about the band wheels needed to be crowned. Mine were flat with a slight angle. I put new v-belt pulleys on and that pretty much solved the problem. Mine is not a WM brand though.

[slider]

Climbing in the cut indicates not enough set as i understand it.I don't cut much spruce but i understand it's troublesome.In wide knotty pine i set at 30 .

[kderby]

Cutting  18" spruce >:(

That is a distinct challenge....soft wood and hard knots.

I was going to say  "It is rough sawn lumber."  The planer can fix the wobble.  In reading the other responses I have learned better options to cope with the challenge.  Thanks Y'all.

Welcome to the forum Alimo.  All sawmills welcome here and I hope we hear from you again.

kderby

[alimo]

Thanks everybody. Raining hard here in Scotland so our rural phone line goes crackly and we lose broadband connection except for a few seconds at a time. Got photos for you which I will post and reply to you all whenever the line clears.

Hopeful you folks might solve the problem for me. Thanks again.

Alistair

[LeeB]

Barrel cuts can also be caused by insufficient blade tension and also by too much room between the blade and the back roller guides.

[alimo]

Looks like you folks caught me out. I said I had checked everything on the mill. Didnt think to check drive belt tension. I did change the belts way back and there has always been a fair amount of pressure on the handle when engaging drive so I just assumed all was well. Could be something in that.

On other queries :

I use water for lube. Using lots of it at the moment after reading an archive post suggesting that was good in spruce.

LT20 has a 20hp Kubota engine (Lombardini in USA ???)

Friends and I went over the mill at the weekend trying to get every alignment right. Checked roller guides for the first time and reset them to make sure we were getting the recommended 6mm deflection. Used a 4mm thick washer to check back of blade clearance was OK. Gullet was running at nearer 6mm in front of both rollers guides and idler wheel so brought that back to 3mm. Loosened rollers and reset them at 6mm down but used up all the threads on adjuster bolts so maybe wear there. Ordered new rollers yesterday.

Tension on LT20 is by using supplied socket set ratchet to wind up screw rod which winds up idle wheel. You keep going till point on mill aligns with a marker point also on mill. One Woodmizer owner told me to wind it up tighter than WM say and that factory demo boys screw it up real tight for shows but another WM operator thought that was a bad idea because of the stress on the bearings. I overtighten it slightly but not excessively. Have a photo of the tension system on the LT20 once I find out how to put it up here.

Alistair

[Peter Drouin]

Do you have a blade alignment tool?

[customsawyer]

With your blade climbing in the middle of the cut but not as much on the sides, I am leaning towards set, blade tension and belt tension. I think all of these can be a contributing factor. Hope you figure it out. By the way I always wanted to see Scotland so if you don't figure it out let me know. I will let you buy me a plane ticket and I will come straiten it out for you. :D Keep in mind I have never cut spruce so you may have to put me up for awhile as it will take a long time to figure out. ;D 

[homesteader1972]

Last year, I replaced my drive belt, and used the Woodmizer belt tension tool.  My next task was to cut some SYP, knotty stuff too. My cuts were all wavy no matter what I did. Come to find out, when I had replaced my belt and set the tension it was very cold. Once the belted warmed and expanded, was too loose and was slipping. Discouraging, and took me a while to figure out the problem. So, I run the engine a bit to warm the belt then set the tension. No trouble since.

[woodmills1]

your problem is the spruce.  Ask me for more!!

[WV Sawmiller]

Thx for spruce comments. I have a few small ones bucked to length ready to cut. I cut them out of a small lot of overgrown Christmas trees I have on my place. When I got my mill in January I bought 4,7 & 10 degree blades but have not used the 7's yet. I'll try them in this batch. I had read the spruce is hard to cut because of the soft wood and hard knots every couple of feet.

Good luck on the wavy cuts. I'm betting by the time you check out the advise here you find it and I bet you kick yourself when you find how simple an issue it really was. Keep the faith.

[YellowHammer]

I would do a very close examination of a "before" and "after" band.  Use a magnifying glass and take a very close look at the teeth of a misbehaving band.  Look for teeth corners that are slightly duller on one side than the other.  On my mill before I adjusted it, if I had a wavy cut, the band would dive down, pull off the outboard roller and barely rub on the blade guard shield, and dull one side of the band.  Band was done when that happened. 
Also, check the set, see if the used band has one side set different than the other.  That would indicate issues with tracking or the wheel taking set out. 
YH

[Brucer]

... To be clear, when Brucer talks about the top and bottom teeth, I'm sure he means the inside and outside teeth. ...

Yep. Top = inside, bottom = outside. I was referring to the teeth on the portion of the blade that is actually doing the cutting.

The secret to making straight cuts with a thin, narrow bandsaw is to keep the blade speed up to around 5000 feet per minute. If it falls too much below that, the blade will start to wander. If your belt tension is too low there can be enough slippage that the blade slows down to below the design speed. If your engine isn't running at the specified maximum RPM you'll get the same effect.

My experience (when my engine started acting up) was that I got plenty of shallow waves, but not the crowning you mentioned.

If the blade tensions is too low you will also get waves. Normally that shouldn't cause the crowning but ... if the blade is too slack, the blade could flex enough that the teeth just touch a cover somewhere.

One other adjustment that sometimes gets overlooked is the sideways adjustment of the blade guide rollers. When you are standing behind the blade, looking down the length of the mill, the rollers should be cocked so they are pointing a tiny amount to the right.

If they are pointing straight ahead or to the left, and if the blade pushes back against the flange while you are cutting, the flange will push the back of the blade down slightly, away from the roller. This causes the blade to try to cut upward. As it climbs, the tension increases to the point where it pulls the blade back against the roller and the cut drops back down to where it is supposed to be -- only to repeat the whole process.

If the lateral adjustment of the roller is correct, if the back of the blade pushes against the flange it will bet pushed firmly against the roller and all is well (unless something else is wrong).

I didn't pay much attention to this adjustment until after a few years I started getting waves that no amount of troubleshooting could fix. I finally did the full alignment, faithfully doing every step as instructed, and that's when I found the lateral adjustment of the rollers was way off. The manual tells you what will happen to the blade if the lateral adjustment is wrong, but it doesn't tell you what will happen in the cut.

[alimo]

Peter, I do have a blade alignment tool......got it yesterday. ...but I did do measurements over the years using a short spirit level.

Customsawyer, there have been days when I would have happily paid your ticket over if you could have got this thing working. You are not missing much over here right now. Sleat and rain... but spring just round the corner.  I stay in a small town, almost a village, called Dollar, just like your money.

I understand what you are all saying about spruce - although I like it and its what is available over here - but I have the same trouble with larch and pine.

Brucer. Got new rollers on the way. Probably be in today so will fit them as accurately as possible.

Got the photos in My Gallery (almost as much fun as working my Woodmizer  :D) Just need to post them now.

Alistair

[alimo]

 

 

[alimo]

Got the photo on OK. Missed out on the description.

This is the tension system on the LT20. You screw up the tension until that shiney ring at the left hand side of the red bit aligns with the vertical part of the l shaped bracket. As you can see I have gone a little bit over here.

[LeeB]

Not every blade will have the same tension setting. Does your blade run smooth when not in the wood or is there any flutter? One way to set blade tension with a system like that is to set it as you normally would. If it is running smooth, slowly back off the tension while the blade is running until it starts to flutter. Re-tighten until it stops. Continue to tighten until the flutter returns and the back off until it stops. If it is already fluttering try to either tighten or back off and see if it smooths out.

[alimo]

 

  

  

 

New blade on spruce. Cuts 1,2,3 and 4 were on the slabwood. Cuts 5 6 &7 were the horizontals down as far as the throat allows and shown as pretty straight in pic 2 apart from a wobble about 18" down from the start. Rotated 90 degrees. Nothing else changed. Set off on cut 8 and got the results shown in pic 1.

Its not too clear but you can just make out the little ramp up into that cut at the start.

Pic 3 shows the arching effect of the cut with the blade touching in the middle but lower at both sides but quarter of an inch or so.

Alistair

[ladylake]

 Try running some 4° hook 3/4 pitch blades in spruce.  Steve

[FarmingSawyer]

I'd call up and order a new band....ask for one recommended for spruce. Really look it over before you run it. Set things up like you would for one of the blades you have. If it runs great then it's something about your blades. If it chokes after a few cuts, then look at it again and see how similar/dissimilar it is to the ones you've been running. Sometimes it's the slightest little thing--like the other day when I forgot to lock down the blade tension and things got a little wavey--and sometimes its a confluence of errors. I'm finding set to be the biggest bugaboo right now.....all winter milling frozen spruce things have been grand. Now things are warming up wavy-gravy is returning, but only to the spruce.

[Remle]

Do you still have the blade in the picture ? Of course sharpness and tooth angle matter but, could you check the set on each side of that blade ? I would be interested to know if the set on the outside/ bottom of the blade is less than the set on the inside. To me the ark across the width of the cant is a sign of this and causes waves to form while cutting the length of the cant. To further explain, the larger set takes out more wood on that side which allows the blade to rise up as it travels along. Again if you could check the set and post back the results, I would appreciate it.. 
Thanks  Remle

[Alyeska Pete]

INSUFFICIENT TENSION

Get a 6" dial caliper and 2 small clamps and check what the tension really is. Arbitrary factory indicators usually only are correct for the blade they set them with.

[pineywoods]

Set a couple of blades to 30 thou. and try them. If you don't have a setter, click here and build yourself one of these..

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,50749.0.html

[alimo]

Thanks to everybody for all the input.  I will be printing it all out so a friend and I can use it all to go thoroughly over the mill at the weekend.

Could be the drive belts after all. They do look a bit grey and threadbare. New ones on the way along with the roller guides. Also have my new blade alignment tool ready to go.

WM UK out of double sharp blades so had to take box of silvertips to keep me going. Should really be double tips for comparison but assume silvertips will be identical. Not sure if there are any options other than 10/30 for LT20. Manual only lists 10/30's or 9/29 for hardwood.

Remie. The blade is still on the  mill. New blade so it should be 26ish but your theory might be right. Will check it for you. I have a WM setter.

Pete.  Like the idea of having a tension gauge that I can set it to regularly. Will also try the flutter test from LeeB. I have heard of that somewhere before but never tried it myself.

Thanks again to all.

Alistair

[woodmills1]

those cuts are way more than wavy.  Are your bands hitting the wheels and losing all set on one side?

[Nomad]

those cuts are way more than wavy.  Are your bands hitting the wheels and losing all set on one side?

     Yeah.  You got a real issue there.

[säger]

Hi,
I´m in germany, sawing mostly spruce here, own LT15 and 40 super.

Try log with not more than 35cm first. Are your B57 belts new? Whats the condition of head bearings and feed chain? Is the speed potentiomter ok?

Try a new or woodmizer resharp 7° double hard band.

Use maximum blade tension.

[YellowHammer]

those cuts are way more than wavy.  Are your bands hitting the wheels and losing all set on one side?

     Yeah.  You got a real issue there.

I would think that once the band took off like that, it's not even close to running on the rollers if it's dropping in the cut, and has got to be hitting something on the mill frame (there just isn't that much clearance for that type of movement), doing damage to the band, even if it's a secondary effect. 
Also, it looks like the packed sawdust is blackened, indicating it was getting hot, which makes perfect sense.  A band can't run well after a trip like that, it's got to be toast.  Look for some fresh scuff marks in the painted metal of the blade guide arm, just under the outboard roller.  If you see little scratches, the band is hitting when it begins to wave, set gets taken out, and it gets worse, not better.

Lots of good suggestions, very interested to know what you find out.
Yh

[alimo]

I dont think its the bands hitting the wheels - but all options are open.

We did a real going over of measurements last weekend and the gullet was nearer 6mm in front of the wheels than 3 so we brought it back to 3. I think the wheels are running on the blade metal well clear of the teeth.

sager, mill has only done 600 hours since new so assume drive chain  in good order. Paint it with transmission fluid regularly and it looks and feels ok. Belts were renewed about 400-500 hours and again look still near new on the wheels. Speed control fine. sawmill mainly done 35 cm logs till now. Having a Lucas, I am always begging them to send me big logs - 50cms/18" plus - but they just dont have them in the UK so they send me "big logs" which they define as over 30 cms/ 12". Once got a load of 10" ones.  Doable on the Woodmizer but a real pain on the Lucas which gobbles them up in a couple of minutes. hence Lucas spends a lot of its time switched off while I am setting up the next log. Not efficient.

Yellowhammer, will be looking into your suggestion as well. Yes, lots of ideas. I am keen to see how it all works out as well. Will be reporting back to you all.

Alistair

[customsawyer]

Do you cut from the small end or the big end of a log?

[säger]

Hi,

The B57 belts, under the band on the bandwheels, will last only for 200 or so hours.

The head bearings will fail not only from hours but also from mill not being used for some time.

They cause an unsteady feed which will make waves in the cut . Its very important all the drive chain is going free without resistance from dirty or broken head bearings, dirty chain or sprockets etc.

You need to be able to cut without force in feed, very easily. 35cm spruce should be possible to cut without any wave.

[Magicman]

The B57 belts, under the band on the bandwheels, will last only for 200 or so hours.

I have no experience with that particular mill, but my B57's easily last many times over that.

[alimo]

I cut from the thin end first.

I was going with the manual which says B57s 500 hours. Roller guides 1000 hours and drive belts 1250 hours.

WM UK forgot to send the blade guides but they are on their way now.

Alistair

[bandmiller2]

Welcome Alistair, I'am a little late to this fray. Do you have a setter, after a problem have you measured the set on boath sides of the band. Sometimes if the band is not running right on the wheels it will tend to take out some of the set on the inside teeth. Have you tried cutting a different species of wood and had the same problem.?? Hang in there mate seems we have all had a bout with the wave at one time or another. Frank C.

[ladylake]

  Cutting wide spruce there is night and day difference between a 10° 7/8 pitch blade and a 4°  3/4 pitch blade, you need to try a 4°  3/4 pitch blade.   Steve

[alimo]

Remie , You asked me to check the set on the blade in the photo which was rising up at the start.

It was 26 on the upside or inside teeth and around 19 -20 on the outside teeth.
Tried the blade again today just to experiment and it climbed up into the cut. Stopped right away. Blade turning in the clear  all round. Nothing close to touching it anywhere within the head or the debarker although Yellowhammers comments about secondary damage from the wavy cut itself makes sense.

But we might have a fix. Dont want to say too much yet as it is only based on the six dead straight fairly fast cuts I made with a new Silvertip blade at the end of the day as I finished off that spruce log. Might just be a new blade not got round to wandering yet but if it keeps cutting for a spell tomorrow like it just did tonight, we could have cracked it.

I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow.

Alistair

[Remle]

Alistair
Pic 3 shows the arching effect of the cut with the blade touching in the middle but lower at both sides but quarter of an inch or so.
(This picture is the blade exiting the cant.)
This is the picture that lead me to believe the set was off as you say. You may have sawed through some dirt with rocks embedded into it that caused the set to change on one side with out realizing it.  At any rate, you seem to be making progress to get things straightened out. Thanks for checking.
Remle

[beenthere]

Remie , You asked me to check the set on the blade in the photo which was rising up at the start.

It was 26 on the upside or inside teeth and around 19 -20 on the outside teeth.
..................

Alistair

Might be you have found your problem?
Do you set it that way, or something on the mill caused the set to change?

[customsawyer]

If your set is off by 6-7 thousandths I would be trying to find out why, before I did the same to another blade.

[Brucer]

... It was 26 on the upside or inside teeth and around 19 -20 on the outside teeth.
Tried the blade again today just to experiment and it climbed up into the cut.

That will make it climb for sure. The blade will move to the side with the greatest set. The manual says you should keep the set from tooth-to-tooth and from one side to the other within +/- 0.001". I try to be within half that (not that I'm obsessive or anything  :D).

[alimo]

 8) 8) I have had a great day working on my Woodmizer LT20. The fix was new belts all round. I put on new B57's because I already had them hanging on the wall but I think the big fix was new drive belts. I guess I hadn't noticed that the belts were stretching as everything seemed to feel the same when engaging drive. But while the old belts came off easily, it was a struggle getting the new ones over the pulleys because they were so tight.

We tried the  original blade just to see what happened but it climbed up at the start so we switched to a new Silvertip blade right away. Boy did that make a difference. The saw is humming now. We finished off that big log in the photos last night and it cut straight and true all the way. Also flowing smoother and running faster through the wood so I have to back off the speed control or end up jogging alongside it to keep up

I was worried it might just be a short term fix but I loaded up another 20" spruce this morning and it cut it straight. Blade stayed flat across the cut and didnt dip at the ends. Cut 170 fence posts this afternoon - about 700 board feet and did another 20 12' x3.5" x1.5" rails this evening just to try some 12" pine logs I have. Blade lasted about 400 board feet till I got some signs of wave. Sharpened it and got another 300 board feet. I was cutting 3" planks 7 wide near the end of the day so the 21" cuts got a little bit of ripple through them but after another sharpen, tonights rails were dead straight and the blade is ready to go again tomorrow

Really enjoyed working that mill for the first time. Looking forward to many more days like today. I have a backlog of about 1000 posts to do over the next week or so. Would have been pretty tedious on the Lucas but the way they were coming off the Woodmizer this afternoon, a couple of full days at it will have them  stacking up.

Thank you to all of you who chipped in with advice and comments. It runs to 12 pages of print out which I have placed in the manual for future reference. I really appreciate your help. Thanks to all.

Best regards

Alistair.

[Dave Shepard]

That's great news! It's too bad you had to struggle with it for so long. I think WM suggests checking drive belt tension every 50 hours. I know on my Super with the 51 HP diesel, that's a good idea.

[terrifictimbersllc]

With your blade climbing in the middle of the cut but not as much on the sides, I am leaning towards set, blade tension and belt tension. I think all of these can be a contributing factor. Hope you figure it out. By the way I always wanted to see Scotland so if you don't figure it out let me know. I will let you buy me a plane ticket and I will come straiten it out for you. :D Keep in mind I have never cut spruce so you may have to put me up for awhile as it will take a long time to figure out. ;D

Maybe in the end we find out the Loch Ness monster is just a big log that needs splitting in two with a chain saw.  :D :D :D

[Nomad]

     Congrats Alimo!  Glad to hear you've finally got a smile on your face!

[coastlogger]

Glad you got it fixed. Id be inclined to think it was the B57s that fixed the problem. Anytime my drive belts slip theres a lot of unpleasant noise smell smoke heat etc. but I understand from reading here that it can be a hard problem to detect on some mills,never have been able to get my head around that one. Anyhow good for you for getting it going.

[beenthere]

But, what is causing the difference in set from one side vs the other? The belt do that?

[Magicman]

I seriously doubt that the B57's had any effect in this particular situation.  Blade, blade guide rollers/adjustment, and drive belt/tension.

[LeeB]

That new drive belt will stretch quickly until it settles in. Check it fairly frequently for the first 100 hours or so.

[customsawyer]

I'm glad you got it figured out. Not so happy that you won't be sending me a plane ticket. ;D

[YellowHammer]

That's great news! 
YH

[Peter Drouin]

Good, 8)

[hunz]

That's great news! It's too bad you had to struggle with it for so long. I think WM suggests checking drive belt tension every 50 hours. I know on my Super with the 51 HP diesel, that's a good idea.

Dave, is that because it continuously needs adjustment, or because an over right belt is notorious for CAT engine failure? Just trying to gain long earned wisdom from other CAT 51 owners.

[4x4American]

I think he means because the Cat engina has alot of power that it will put more of a hurting on a belt than a gasjob. 
If I had a 51 hp Cat I'd use suspenders instead.  They tend to work better than belts IMO.

[Dave Shepard]

I think with the power of the CAT, you need your tension right up where it needs to be all the time, but not go over. :D If you really start pushing, it will slip, even if it's fine at more leisurely sawing speeds. I was showing my mill to a friend last fall and cranked it right up in a wide piece of pine. The blade rose up out of the cut towards the end making a long thin taper. I was a bit baffled, until I found that my turnbuckle was loose. I guess I didn't get the jam nut tight enough. It was very loose.

[pineywoods]

Just coincidence, I worked on a mill yesterday that had the exact same problem. Combination of 2 problems. The outboard guide roller had a 1/2 gap between the back of the blade and the flange of the roller. That let the blade push back for enough for the inside teeth to contact the metal of the bandwheel due to a worn B57. The owner was also complaining of excessive blade breakage...

[Magicman]

That owner was in bad need of your services. 

[barbender]

My worst waves have came from 2 issues- sap buildup when sawing softwoods, and incorrect (low) drive belt tension.

[alimo]

But, what is causing the difference in set from one side vs the other? The belt do that?

The belt would be on the "inside" teeth. I assume to slow revs allowed the blade to ride up and roll over the cut in that arch pattern maybe flattening the downside outside teeth as it did so ???

That new drive belt will stretch quickly until it settles in. Check it fairly frequently for the first 100 hours or so.

Its OK I learned my lesson. I will be checking tension regularly now. Dont want to go back to where I was before you folks straightened me out.

I seriously doubt that the B57's had any effect in this particular situation.  Blade, blade guide rollers/adjustment, and drive belt/tension.

I just happened to have the belts hanging on the wall so it seemed sensible to use them as part of the service. We actually found a couple of plugs of rubber or plastic stuck in the V grooves of the pulley - about the size of half a sugar cube. Scraped them out with a screwdriver.

I'm glad you got it figured out. Not so happy that you won't be sending me a plane ticket. ;D

Maybe next time I make a newby mistake 

[quote author=terrifictimbersllc link=topic=82447.msg1259370#msg1259370 date=14280961
Maybe in the end we find out the Loch Ness monster is just a big log that needs splitting in two with a chain saw.  :D :D :D
[/quote]

Haven't heard anything about Nessie since American scientists did a thorough sonar sweep of the Loch and found nothing. Must have scared her out to sea. 

Its been fun folks thanks to you all.

Alistair

[lirachamo51]

i know we all hate to admit it,but sometimes the wife knows best!!!!but don't tell her that!!! :D

[alimo]

i know we all hate to admit it,but sometimes the wife knows best!!!!but don't tell her that!!! :D

I was hoping nobody would remember that  .

She has been telling me how smart she is for 25 years. I dont say anything of course but I think " You aren't that smart. You married me" 

Alistair

[LeeB]

At one point in my life I realized I should give away any encyclopedias and other reference materials as I did not need them. Wives know everything. If you don't believe it, just ask them.  ;D