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Circle saw trading one problem for another

Started by Logger003, March 28, 2015, 01:05:19 PM

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Logger003

Hi everyone I'm new to the forum but looking forward to getting to know everyone. I have a circle saw mill and man am I frustrated right now. The blade I had on it was bobbing and weaving in the cut but end to end on the boards were perfect. I changed saw blades and the new one cuts nice, new teeth the lead is set to about 1/8 inch but I can't get it to saw perfect from one end to the other on an 8 foot log it's 1/4 inch wider at the back end now, so I was just wondering if anyone else run into this problem

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum
Sounds like you have some conflicting problems... need to solve more than just one at a time IMO.
There are some great and knowledgeable members here that you have access to, and will likely get some valuable help from them.

Do you have this Lunstrum booklet? Here is a pdf copy that may help you.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Magicman

I am of no help with the circle saw, but Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Logger003.   8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Jeff

The book Beenthere linked to is the best written resource available other than this forum. I turned to my copy many many times over my years as a commercial sawyer. If you don't have it, download it and print is off and read read read!  We are here for questions. You may just find your answers the first time you look through the booklet.  Circle saws are not rocket science, even though some feel they are. Circle saws are a fickled beast, but once you understand everything in principle, and know how to trouble shoot your issues that every one has had in your shoes, things start to work out. 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

dgdrls

Welcome logger 003.
I'm a big fan of circle mills smiley_thumbsup
The Lunstrum book is extremely informative no matter what kind of saw you run
It gets you thinking and checking your mill for things you may not of considered as an issue.

Best
DGDrls




Ron Wenrich

Since you have new teeth in the new saw, and I'm assuming its hammered for the right speed, I'm guessing you have too much lead.  Too much lead will cause you to cut in.  Sometimes you have to change lead when you change saws.  What's the saw do when you exit the cut?  My guess is it jumps back to where the saw is standing straight.

There's other things that will cause your saw to dive in.  One would be if there is slippage in the belts and your saw lays over in the cut.  Another is feeding too fast for conditions.  Those conditions can change in each log. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Bert

Id check the teeth and make sure they are filed straight across. If they are angled it will pull the saw. A 1/4 isn't that much in reality. IS it pulling your cant away from the headblocks?
Saw you tomorrow!

bandmiller2

Logger, tell us more about your mill, did you just set it up or has it been set up many years. Where are you located.?? It seems everything on a circular mill affects everything else. That Lundstrum booklet is the sawyers bible. Take the time to check everything from the foundation up, plumb and level all ways. Put a heavy log on the carriage and push it down the track with a level on the carriage. Check the carriage wheels for side play. From what you have told us I think Ron is right about too much lead. A sure indication is if the cant pulls away from the last headblock and the back of the saw doesn't tick on the cant when giging back. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Logger003

I just rebuilt the saw last fall and this week is the first time I actually got any stick time with it. My dad owned it before me. When he passed away I inherited and it sat for the last 10 years. My son is old enough now and is interested in it so I moved it to my place ( in pieces) cause it is a steel husk and carriage with a wood track. I rebuilt it the same way. When I set it up I used 4x6 for the track frame the saw blade I said was new but it was the spare blade that hung in dad's shop. I remember dad getting it pounded but never used it. The mill was setup to run 650 rpm and he used a 150 hp tractor to run it. I use the same setup
Except my tractor that I run it with is a 90 hp. If I missed anything let me know and I will try to answer any questions you have about it

Logger003

About the lead, the last cut I make the board that's still on the carriage is 1/4 inch wider on the back end of the carriage

sandsawmill14

are the boards coming off the saw the same on each end or are they tapered as well?
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Logger003

The boards coming off the saw are all the same width from one end to the other

Logger003


Ron Wenrich

Then you're talking about the dog board, not the cut boards being wider.  That is a different problem than lead.  Sounds like the saw is cutting true. 

Are the headblocks the same distance from the saw?  Are you sawing down to a 1" board?  If your last board is only 1", you could be getting spring in your log.  How far does your log hang out past the last headblock?  You could have slop in your headblock or in your trucks. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

thecfarm

Logger003,I just want to welcome you to the forum.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Logger003

The dog board is a 2 inch board it only sticks out about 6'' past. I think I'm missing something here correct me if I'm wrong if the saw boards are coming off uniform and the saw isn't heating the lead should be right I'm guessing. The head blocks have no play, they are all adjusted correctly. One thing I found is there is about 1/4 inch dip in the track about a foot behind the saw. Would this be causing all my problems? I would like to thank everyone for the ideas and help with this problem your a great bunch of guys. I downloaded the book from the link I was given thank you for the link my dad had a book similar to that one

Ron Wenrich

If you're getting uniform boards, lead is OK.  Your lead seems a little rich at 1/8", but that's what it takes to run right.   I'm going to assume you get this extra ¼" on each log.  If the dip in the track would be an issue, then the end of your dog board would look like a trapezoid instead of a rectangle.  Is the top and bottom measurement equal? 

I'm thinking you might have a track alignment issue.  You're not running parallel to your blade.  You would have to check your guide rail to make sure its straight and running parallel.  Another problem would be in the trucks.  If they have too much play in them, the carriage could be moving over that far in the rear.  You can check them by giving the carriage a push and see if it moves. 

Did you have this ¼" difference in the other saw?  I know you said it wobbled in the cut, but I don't think you said whether the dog board was thicker on one end.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

dgdrls

Lunstrum's book helps I.D. potential sources for this condition.  You already noted #2

you'll find the issue and be sawing square soon


"Dog board wedge-shaped, or varies in thickness, end to end.

(1)Saw logs springy
(2)Twist or dip in track
(3)Side play in carriage trucks
(4)Faulty knee alignment
(5)End play in arbor (babbit
     bearings only)
(6)Inadequate saw upkeep
(7)Saw collars defective
(8)Saw dished at operating speed
(9)Excessive lead if back end of
board is thin
(10) Insufficient lead if back end is
thick"


ref http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf
best
DGDrls



Logger003

I'm going out this morning and going over everything we talked about going to recheck the carriage, put a string line on the track, check end play on the arbor, and relevel the track will let everyone know how I make out and thanks again for all the help

Logger003

I really want to thank everyone. We fixed the problem I went out and just started measuring everything carriage was nice and tight no end play in the arbor but when I put the string on the track I found the problem the track wa pulling the back of the carriage away from the saw not very much but enough I guess I relevel end the track and straightened the track out. When I tried it first log perfect lumber tried another and perfect again. Once again thank you everyone

Jeff

The wood track is going to be an ongoing maintenance item, due to seasonal and weather related movement of the wood.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

bandmiller2

As Jeff says wood takes a little extra care. Like your mill mine has a metal husk and carriage, but the mine rails are lagged to wood. Being the opertunest (cheap) I used highline cross arms the power company just replaced. I remilled them on a friends LT-70 and they are straight and well weathered. All joints and overlaps were doused with the old black creasoat the rest with a product like Thompsons water seal. The very best is to have a roof over the mill, and keep damp sawdust away. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Logger003

Thank you for the advice. I am planning on putting a roof over it. But it will be an ongoing project due to the fact that it's just me and my son working on the mill, and we don't really saw much timber only about 10000 bf this year all off private land. I will treat the wood that was something I never thought of but it just makes sense until I can get it covered

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