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Power drive down the track for band mill...

Started by Ljohnsaw, March 25, 2015, 12:30:19 AM

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Ljohnsaw

Not sure what its called so my search of the forum was not very productive.  Some of you have powered units that move the saw head down the track.  I'm assuming chain but cable might work as well.  What I'm wondering is, is there a chain on each side (assuming 2 or 4 post head - not cantilevered units) so as to keep the saw tracking straight down the track?  Or is this a non-issue?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

ladylake

Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

ozarkgem

mine only has one chain. Its a three post head and it twist and flops a lot. If you have a really rigid 4 post a single chain might be ok. I would go with two chains I think.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

kelLOGg

I added a 2-sided chain drive to my MP32. CookSaw advised a 2-chain drive for smooth feed otherwise the non-driven side will sorta play catch-up leaving saw marks. I initially used a 1-sided drive and Cook was right; on a big oak the millhead sorta shimmied down the tracks leaving saw marks. I quickly added a 2nd chain.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

bandmiller2

My HD home built four post band mill uses a hydraulic motor and one wire cable on the backside of the mill not any problems in 12 years of operation. It takes very little force to move a well designed sawhead, in fact you want it to stop easily if theirs a problem. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

kelLOGg

Frank, does it pull from the side?

When I was designing my head advance I held a set of bathroom scales against the head frame while cutting a big poplar. A friend read the scale at 40 lbs. That was my starting point for the design.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

coastlogger

Im surprised to hear about 2 chains.One on one side seems to work well for me. When you push a mill its from one side,and that works. I guess when you push its on the saw head whereas the chain attaches to frame so thats a difference. Im sure theres good reasons either way,but one chain does work for me.(my chain is not all that tight and theres a bit of a belly in it while cutting. I can see it tighten up a bit when blade gets to a hard knot etc,kind of acts like a shock absorber.) Love my power feed!
clgr

Ljohnsaw

Well, it started out a unanimous result (two chains), but now???  :D  I was just pondering how to keep the two sides in sync - they would have to be coupled.  But it depends on how you power.  If the chains are powered (or rather cables) on the bed, pretty easy - just a shaft across the bed.  But if powered on the head, then there is some fancy "belts and pulleys" to go up and over the log (and head).  I think I'll stick to manual for the time being.

Thanks for all the comments and discussion.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

redprospector

It will work either way. I built my mill with a cable drive on one side, and it's worked for years. I was well satisfied until I ran a mill with a chain drive on both sides. It was just smoother all the way around, so now upgrading my drive system is on the list of things I want to do to my mill. But it's been on that list for 2 years now, so I guess it's not that big a deal...to me at least.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

warren46

My Timber Harvester mill has only one chain drive on the side of the four post head.  I can saw 30 plus inches of white oak without any problems.
Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

bandmiller2

Kell, I have a hydraulic motor and flat drum mounted low on the back of the saw head. Used 5/16 wire cable because I had a spool of it. I have a needle valve to control the feed speed. The cable will slip on the drum slightly but that takes some of the shock out of a quick reverse or if something catches on the log. I have no trouble with smooth as theirs good bearings on all four wheels. I probably would have used roller chain if I had it but too cheap to buy that length. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

kelLOGg

Well, I guess that whether you need 1 or 2 chains is a multi-faceted issue. Ltjohn, you will just have to experiment. More info I might add is that my rollers ride on the leg of angle iron track, not the vee. that my be pertinent. The sawhead weighs about 800 lbs.

Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

boscojmb

The saw head on my current mill is driven by a single chain.
The mill that I had before this used a single cable. I like the cable drive better than the chain. The cable will slip if you hit something with the saw head. This saved my blade guides several times when the log somehow swelled while I was milling.  :-\
I can't think of a reason why you would want to drive the saw head from both sides, but I can't see what It would hurt either.

Here is a sketch of the cable drive.

John B.

Log-Master LM4

ozarkgem

Quote from: boscojmb on March 25, 2015, 11:12:52 PM
The saw head on my current mill is driven by a single chain.
The mill that I had before this used a single cable. I like the cable drive better than the chain. The cable will slip if you hit something with the saw head. This saved my blade guides several times when the log somehow swelled while I was milling.  :-\
I can't think of a reason why you would want to drive the saw head from both sides, but I can't see what It would hurt either.

Here is a sketch of the cable drive.


How many times is the cable wrapped around the pulley? What size is the pulley?
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

boscojmb

Quote from: ozarkgem on March 26, 2015, 05:38:18 AM

How many times is the cable wrapped around the pulley? What size is the pulley?

My mill used a 3+" pulley. The cable is wrapped around twice. The cable was small diameter, similar to the cable on a garage door.

I don't think you want to go much smaller than 3" on the pulley, but it could be larger depending on the speed of your motor.
The number of wraps of the cable could vary based on the pulley size and spring tension.

I still have the mill, but haven't used it since I got my new mill. If needed, I can confirm the pulley diameter and measure the spring size / tension when some of this snow melts.
John B.

Log-Master LM4

bandmiller2

I think some of the robust dual chain setups are so you can utilize a board drag back. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ozarkgem

Quote from: boscojmb on March 26, 2015, 10:15:26 AM
Quote from: ozarkgem on March 26, 2015, 05:38:18 AM

How many times is the cable wrapped around the pulley? What size is the pulley?

My mill used a 3+" pulley. The cable is wrapped around twice. The cable was small diameter, similar to the cable on a garage door.

I don't think you want to go much smaller than 3" on the pulley, but it could be larger depending on the speed of your motor.
The number of wraps of the cable could vary based on the pulley size and spring tension.

I still have the mill, but haven't used it since I got my new mill. If needed, I can confirm the pulley diameter and measure the spring size / tension when some of this snow melts.
That would be good. I have wondered about a cable and drum setup.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

kelLOGg

Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 26, 2015, 08:09:33 PM
I think some of the robust dual chain setups are so you can utilize a board drag back. Frank C.

I didn't have that in mind when I added my drive but I have found that I can push a board/cant I had rather not pick up onto my trailer with relative ease. 
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

redprospector

My cable drive is a 4" flat "spool". I used 1 full wrap with the 3/16" cable. I tried 2 wraps, but the small cable would get crossed up and bind up the whole show. With a larger cable that might not be a problem.
The more wraps you take, the less slip it will have...if you consider that a benefit.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Hilltop366

Quote from: redprospector on March 26, 2015, 09:11:59 PM
My cable drive is a 4" flat "spool". I used 1 full wrap with the 3/16" cable. I tried 2 wraps, but the small cable would get crossed up and bind up the whole show. With a larger cable that might not be a problem.
The more wraps you take, the less slip it will have...if you consider that a benefit.

Are the ends where the cable attach to mill rails off set?
Wondering if an off set would prevent the cable from rubbing on itself on the drum.

redprospector

Quote from: Hilltop366 on March 26, 2015, 09:41:32 PM
Quote from: redprospector on March 26, 2015, 09:11:59 PM
My cable drive is a 4" flat "spool". I used 1 full wrap with the 3/16" cable. I tried 2 wraps, but the small cable would get crossed up and bind up the whole show. With a larger cable that might not be a problem.
The more wraps you take, the less slip it will have...if you consider that a benefit.

Are the ends where the cable attach to mill rails off set?
Wondering if an off set would prevent the cable from rubbing on itself on the drum.
No, they are in line. Off setting them would probably fix that problem, but it works good with 1 wrap, and when I do something to it I'll be going to a double chain. May be a waste of time, I don't know. It's just something I've been wanting to do.  ;)
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Rougespear

What are folks using for a chain drive?  I see Cooks using #60 roller chain but that stuff is spendy at a 100' spool.  I'm planning on using #40 which I think is still overkill.  I do plan a board return though.  Thoughts?
Custom built Cook's-style hydraulic bandmill.

Magicman

Oversize is good because you do have such things such as stopping the sawmill head's momentum (think weight) on the return.  The sprocket bearings take a beating and there is also chain stretch.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

kelLOGg

I used #40 roller chain and have had no problems starting or stopping. I used a wheelchair motor for the drive (with brake removed) and the head will come to a stop from highest speed in about 8 inches.
Check out my gallery.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

redprospector

every size of roller chain has a "weight rating", or "working load rating". What is the weight of your carriage? are you using a valve that will allow the motor to free spool if using hydraulics? If not, what is the shock load of the carriage coming to an abrupt stop? These are all things to consider when choosing the size of chain to use.
In my opinion, it's better to be overbuilt than to be broke down because you weren't.
Just my 2 cents.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

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