Upgrade pillow blocks?

Angleblade11 · March 18, 2015, 02:17:27 PM

I am new to this site. What a great site. I have learned a lot from being on here just a couple of times. I have a Woodmizer LT 30 late 80's early 90's model. I had a blade wheel bearing go on the drive side. Called woodmizer and they said I have to upgrade my pillow blocks to 1 single unit as I have the shaft with 2 pillow blocks on it. That's all fine and dandy until he said the price was $403. So my ? is, can I take that pillow block off and find a interchangable bearing to press in or find another pillow block somewhere and change it out. Also just 1 bearing went. Should I change both while I'm in there? Thanks for all the help.

fishfighter · March 18, 2015, 02:22:38 PM

You should be able to find a pillow bearing that would fit. Just mic everything . Chances are if one side went out, there is damage to the other side. Change the other out too!

warren46 · March 18, 2015, 05:12:43 PM

I recently had a pillow block bearing failure on my Timber Harvester Mill. I changed out both bearings since when one goes bad the other will likely follow. The cost for the two bearings was just under $400.00. I would go with the Woodmizer replacement.

drobertson · March 18, 2015, 08:28:26 PM

its possible to find one from a bearing house, sometimes though the first go around is better to go factory,

Angleblade11 · March 18, 2015, 09:02:48 PM

I would just change the bearings with woodmizer ones. But they are telling me they can't get them. I have to upgrade the whole mechanism to the newer style?

fishfighter · March 18, 2015, 09:51:00 PM

Did you pull the bad bearing off yet? Check the shaft for wear. Just about any bearing house should be able to match it if there is no wear on the shaft.

bandmiller2 · March 19, 2015, 07:24:48 AM

I replaced the bearings on my drive side bandwheel with just the bearings didn't even disturb the settings of the cast iron housings. Clean the shaft, slide out the shaft and twist out just the bearings. They will have a number any industrial supply house will get/have them. If anything is warn or loose you will have to go deeper. Frank C.

Angleblade11 · March 19, 2015, 10:02:26 AM

Ok I may try that route. Now just have to get it all off. I tried backing the bushing out to get wheel off and both bolts snapped right off. May have to spray it down with some blaster for a bit. Thanks again

beenthere · March 19, 2015, 12:12:33 PM

Toss out the PB, and get some LogRite BlueCreeper. Would have worked to loosen the threads up so you were not breaking bolts.

Alligator · March 19, 2015, 12:28:28 PM

"Most" pillow block bearings, the bearing can be changed without changing the pillow block. If it can be changed, there will be 2 slots on one side of the PB. Clean it good and take a punch and tap the outer race cross ways, so it lines up with the slots and remove it. It's a somewhat cheaper to replace just the bearing, than the Pillow block and the bearing. All this assumes the housing is not damaged!

valley ranch · March 19, 2015, 04:17:23 PM

$400 sounds way high for a pillow block or two. Are they very special in some way? What size is the shaft?

Richard

Magicman · March 19, 2015, 10:29:57 PM

I am sorry for your woes, but Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Angleblade11.

StimW · March 19, 2015, 10:49:31 PM

I have been buying a lot of bearings from- http://www.baileynet.com/
And have had good service from them.
They have the inserts and complete bearings.

Angleblade11 · March 19, 2015, 11:08:05 PM

Well I went down after work today and managed to get the bushings out of the drive pulleys and the wheel. Wow what a job. Those threaded holes to back them out did not work at all. But I got it. Some what's my next step. How do I get the shaft out? There are Allen set screws in where the bearings are that look like they go down to the shaft. If I take those out will the shaft slide out or must bearings come off first. Also when I go to put this back together do those bushings go on only so far. Do I slide them on till they go no further? It looks like i may need to mark where the bearings and bushings sit on shaft? The shaft is 1-1/4"

bandmiller2 · March 20, 2015, 07:33:48 AM

Angle, fat chance the shafts will just pull out when you loosen the set screws. There are two common ways the shafts are locked in the bearings, set screws that tighten directly on the shaft and eccentric collars that twist agenst each other to lock the shaft. From what you say you have the first. Clean the shafts well with emery roll and a flat file if there are burrs. Your old bearings are crap so a little heat on them wouldn't hurt. If you have to remove the whole bearing shaft assembly mark the base of the pillow blocks to aid reinstallation. It helps to use never seze on fasteners. Frank C.

redprospector · March 20, 2015, 10:07:14 PM

Make sure when you replace the bearings that they are heavy duty. A lot of the mail order outfits tend to sell medium duty bearings for the price point. They are cheaper to buy...the first time. Experience speaking, medium duty bearings will not hold up on the driven shaft of a band saw mill.

I just (today) got through putting new bearings, and a shaft on the drive side of my mill. Not the end of the world, but it is time consuming.
I agree with bandmiller2, before you start trying to disassemble, clean the shaft with emery cloth and a file. Get it good and smooth and make sure the ends of the shaft are chamfered some. I suppose this would be a good place for Blue Creeper, but I've never used it yet. Put some kind of penetrating oil on the shaft right at the bearing collars, on both sides, take out the set screws (should be 2 in each collar). Since you have at least one bearing that's shot, go ahead and give one end of the shaft a good sharp rap or 2 or 3 with a 3 or 4 pound hammer. If the shaft is stubborn, use more penetrating oil, wait and repeat. This is why I said to chamfer the ends of the shaft, to keep it from mushrooming if you have to get persuasive with the hammer.
Once you get the shaft out you can remove the bearings from the blocks just like Alligator had described.
On re-assembly, what I do is; Install the new bearings in the blocks, and insert the shaft. Don't beat on the shaft on assembly to keep from damaging the new bearings. Now the shaft is installed, but don't install the set screws in the bearings yet. I mount my band wheel bushing flush with that end of the shaft, and tighten down the bolts. Use a straight edge between the band wheels to get an approximate shaft location. Now install the set screws in the bearings and just snug them. Now go to the driven pulley and use a straight edge between it and the drive pulley on the engine. That is the location you want the driven pulley. When using the straight edge be sure that it is long enough to go from edge to edge on both pulley's to get a good line. Recheck the band wheels, and when satisfied remove the set screws from the bearings again and use some blue locktite, reinstall and tighten them down good.
Now other than making sure that the mill is in alignment you are done.

Alligator · March 21, 2015, 02:23:53 AM

I was taught, and learned , that the push off threaded wholes are to give pressure. If you get a real tough one you'll wring off the bolt an have a real mess. Tighten them against the pulley, and tap a wedge (coal chisel) in the crack, tighten a little more, go around with the wedge again, and so on. Lubing well be for stating also helps.

Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 20, 2015, 07:33:48 AM
Angle, fat chance the shafts will just pull out when you loosen the set screws. There are two common ways the shafts are locked in the bearings, set screws that tighten directly on the shaft and eccentric collars that twist agenst each other to lock the shaft. From what you say you have the first. Clean the shafts well with emery roll and a flat file if there are burrs. Your old bearings are crap so a little heat on them wouldn't hurt. If you have to remove the whole bearing shaft assembly mark the base of the pillow blocks to aid reinstallation. It helps to use never seze on fasteners. Frank C.

Frank knows the drill! Just imagine a 20' trim saw shaft with 2 pillow blocks and a pulley on the zero saw, and another set at 8' - 10' - 12' - 14' - 16' - 18' - 20' and the PB goes bad on the 12' saw. You can get pretty good at it about the second time around. But, you never learn to like it. One useful homemade tool we made a chisel like driving tool from a car axle and cupped the taper so it fit the curve of the shaft. :-[ One little missed burr or ding can cause a lot of work.

Angleblade11 · March 21, 2015, 07:54:18 AM

That was a great write up redprospector. When I go to punch the shaft through won't the key way for the bushing alignment hit the bearings allowing it not to pass through?

Magicman · March 21, 2015, 09:29:55 AM

Keep in mind that although the Wood-Mizer retrofit is expensive, it could also be a bargain.

joejeep · March 21, 2015, 10:55:35 AM

Wood Mizer doesn't make bearings...they make saw mills.. Go with a good quality replacement bearing from a company such as Timken or linkbelt. If I bought original equipment bearings for all of the equipment I work on my customers would go broke.. Find yourself a reputable bearing/driveline house and purchase locally. I'm sure wood mizers bearings are top-notch.. But they are just buying them and selling to you at a huge markup.

beenthere · March 21, 2015, 11:12:28 AM

Quote from: joejeep on March 21, 2015, 10:55:35 AM
Wood Mizer doesn't make bearings...they make saw mills.. Go with a good quality replacement bearing from a company such as Timken or linkbelt. If I bought original equipment bearings for all of the equipment I work on my customers would go broke.. Find yourself a reputable bearing/driveline house and purchase locally. I'm sure wood mizers bearings are top-notch.. But they are just buying them and selling to you at a huge markup.

The dealers are there for you, and stock the parts you need. That comes at a cost and likely isn't a "Huge" markup. It is the cost of doing business.
Take the shortcuts, drive to town to get the timken bearing, spend the time, the mileage cost, and feel good about getting it cheaper. But in the end, is it really?

blackfoot griz · March 21, 2015, 11:43:47 AM

Can anybody tell me what brand and part# of pillow block bearing is needed?

Magicman · March 21, 2015, 03:40:57 PM

Quote from: joejeep on March 21, 2015, 10:55:35 AMI'm sure wood mizers bearings are top-notch.. But they are just buying them and selling to you at a huge markup.

I have not seen that "huge" markup that you speak of. WM vs local is always very comparable and often WM is cheaper. The difference is shipping which is a gotcha.

The OP stated that WM does not offer a replacement bearing but instead an upgraded retro kit which I was referring to.

redprospector · March 21, 2015, 03:52:55 PM

Quote from: Angleblade11 on March 21, 2015, 07:54:18 AM
That was a great write up redprospector. When I go to punch the shaft through won't the key way for the bushing alignment hit the bearings allowing it not to pass through?

Thanks, it was fresh in my mind.
The key way is the slot in the shaft, and short of having a burr on the edge would have no way of stopping the shaft from going through the bearings. The key stock that actually goes in the slots on the shaft and the bushing has to be removed. Some shafts I've worked on have woodruff keys, that are half moon shaped. Regardless of the type of key, it will have to be removed.

Now, I will say that when I'm using my mill hard, I have to replace the bearings at least once a year, sometimes more often. Depending on your horse power, and what you're sawing, but these bearings take a beating. That's why Wood-Mizer upgraded to a more durable set up. If you look at changing your bearings out a few times, the price of the upgrade doesn't look near as bad. If you consider down time the upgrade may be a profitable investment. I'm looking at upgrading my mill to the bearings, shafts, and wheels that Cooks Mfg. sells, if I don't just buy one of their mills. The name of the game is to keep your mill running as long as possible between break downs, and down time. Pillow block bearings on the driven wheel of a band saw mill have proven themselves to be a weak link in that equation.

Just food for thought.

Peter Drouin · March 21, 2015, 05:48:41 PM

I know my drive bearing will go someday, So I bought the whole new kit 2 years ago. I bet they're more money now. ;D

Angleblade11 · March 23, 2015, 08:24:25 PM

Ok so I finally made it down to the mill after work and managed to get the shaft out. In the process my inner pillow block cast busted bc the bearing I guess was stuck fast. This pillow block is not the one that the bearing went in. So now I have 1 good pillow block without a bearing and a bearing without a pillow block. And it looks like the shaft is scared up from the bearings. So guys what are my options now. Do I just go with the WM upgrade that comes with pillow block, bearings, and a new shaft for $408 or get 1 pillow block and 2 bearings. Or just go get 2 pillow block units with the bearings from a local bearing place. A local mill told me he gets all his bearings at thebigbearing store.com online? He said they are good quality and cheaper priced?

bandmiller2 · March 23, 2015, 09:06:35 PM

Angle, I would dress up the shaft and get two new pillow block assemblies so there will be a close match. Frank C.

Angleblade11 · March 24, 2015, 05:52:58 AM

That shaft has some pretty good groves in it. Can it still be cleaned up and not ruin a bearing quick.

fishfighter · March 24, 2015, 06:29:40 AM

You could have the shaft machine at a shop to cut/dress it up. Now that depends how bad it is. Or, talk to the shop and see how much it would cost to build a new shaft.

If you go the first way, just match the new bearing to it. Oh, are the bearing are split bearing? If not, then you are looking at a new shaft.

Peter Drouin · March 24, 2015, 06:38:11 AM

I know it's a lot of money, But if you had got the WM up grade you would be sawing now. For me spending money will save you money and have a set up that you will not have to look at again.

terrifictimbersllc · March 24, 2015, 08:35:41 AM

X2 on not seeing huge markups from WM. They don't mark up the replaceables on my Kubota sawmill engine, they're better priced than from the Kubota dealer. Sometimes their prices approach list price and you can save a bit by searching around, but then you have to make absolutely sure its the right part and to be honest for me such time is often not very well spent. There can be some exceptions maybe like the hydraulic microswitch but the equation breaks down if the part isn't on hand when needed and days of sawing will be lost waiting for it to come.

X2 on getting back up to keep sawing and making money. If my truck's in the driveway with a bad bearing or leaky brake line yes the Ford dealer seems a lot more expensive than fixing it myself but not after considering that I can have it fixed that afternoon and be sawing the next day instead of rescheduling customers and spending a couple days or worse borrowing the wife's car, driving around and lying under the truck.

Magicman · March 24, 2015, 08:43:16 AM

I am still in the $408 corner. WM recognized a weakness and has done the R&D to upgrade and offer a retrofit. It was done for a reason.

pineywoods · March 24, 2015, 09:45:21 AM

Look at it this way. The old style is 2 ball bearing pillow blocks with iffy lubrication after the internal grease gets hard. The upgrade is 2 heavy duty roller bearings inside an enclosure, running in an oil bath. Keep the lube level up and they should run forever.Those roller bearings can be changed out, but wm recommends replaceing the entire assembly. I have replaced them twice when the owner let them run dry.

Dave Shepard · March 24, 2015, 09:59:00 AM

I worry that you will fix this to as original condition, and then how long before you have to do it again? It sounds like you need a new shaft. Unless you have a buddy that can cut one for you, it sounds like two new bearings, plus having a shaft made will probably eat up most of that $408. I know it's easy for us to spend your money, so it's all just food for thought. Sometimes you have to do the absolute cheapest fix. I've done that a few times.

Peter Drouin · March 24, 2015, 12:27:28 PM

Dave, can I spend some of your money? :D :D :D

Dave Shepard · March 24, 2015, 12:55:46 PM

You'd have to loan me some first. Then I'd have some to spend. :D Just go look under the ice near your sawmill. Maybe a new crop has sprung up over night. ;)

terrifictimbersllc · March 24, 2015, 01:35:00 PM

Yup, got that right. :D :D :D

Magicman · March 24, 2015, 06:07:57 PM

Now I like that !!! :D

Peter Drouin · March 24, 2015, 07:53:34 PM

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on March 24, 2015, 01:35:00 PM
Yup, got that right. :D :D :D

Yeah, But I think yours has been there longer with more 00 :D :D

redprospector · March 24, 2015, 09:39:58 PM

From the sounds of it the set screws had backed off on the bearing where the shaft was scored. I've never been able to reuse a scored shaft and have it last any time at all on my mill. If the shaft is scored very bad, then the bearing is probably wallowed out enough that you can't reuse it either.
I'm sure that you could fix it for less than $408...but are you going to be any better off in the long run? I built my mill, and the pillow blocks are one of the week points that I have to fight all the time.

Angleblade11 · March 25, 2015, 07:29:56 AM

Alright I think I'm going the WM upgrade. By the time I search for all this stuff and have time to go pick it up and the cost of everything I will probably be in the ball park range. WM will ship it right to my door. I'll let ya know how it goes. Thanks for all the help.