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chainsaw mods.

Started by easymoney, March 17, 2015, 10:31:45 PM

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easymoney

i ran up on this link showing chainsaw mods. what do the members think about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiA2zd1omQg&app=desktop

justallan1

I feel the folks at Stihl and Husky know more about making a chainsaw than I do and I stand way better odds of it working if I leave that to them. I'm certainly not saying it wouldn't work, but I'm not finding out either.
I'd also be concerned about lighting the woods on fire, whether it would or not, and know for sure in California you couldn't use a saw on any public lands with a modified muffler.
I look at it the same way I see folks buying a $40,000 truck and then adding $6,000 worth of crap to get 3 more HP out of it. Why not just save your money and buy what you need to begin with.
Just my thoughts on it.

sawguy21

Some of us don't know to leave well enough alone. ;D Hot rodding goes back to when the first car owners wanted to go a little bit faster and farther and there is nothing wrong with that. A lot of manufacturers took notice and incorporated some of these mods into their products making better vehicles. It isn't for everyone, 98% of the buying public is perfectly satisfied with the factory offerings but that other 2% (not mentioning any names) views that as a just a place to start.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Jiles

Nice video.  I know that most people adjust their "H" screw the way this guy did.
However, I have been doing this for many years and I would never consider holding a throttle wide open continuously while making the adjustment. Way too much movement inside an engine.
Instead, I simply hold the throttle at WO and determine what adjustment is needed. While the engine is idling, I make that adjustment and try at WOT again until I get it right.
Just my opinion and I am sure most of you disagree.
Satisfy needs before desires

21ftnitro

Some newer saws have a rev limiter and can't be adjusted using the no load wot method anyway. You have to actually cut into something. Stop and make the adjustments and try it again. Anddyshine77 has a good video on this.

Bilge Rat

There is more to a proper muffler mod than just drilling holes in it.
First take the muffler off the saw and enlarge the existing holes. On that saw you can add a few more holes but don't go crazy.
Be sure to wash all the metal shavings out of the muffler before putting it back on. A 2 stroke sucks air back into the cylinder and will pull anything into itself chewing up the motor.
This is a good reason to keep the screen or another more open screen/spark arrestor in place.

You need to remove the limiter caps to get the proper tune after any mod.
Knowing what a properly tuned saw sounds like in and out of wood is important. Having a tach is a good idea too.

You tube has all kinds of things on it. Some sound good but are not the best thing to do without understanding why you are doing it.
Notice the first vid was a stock saw then the second was the modded saw with a RS chain.
A good sharp chain is the first best thing you should learn to do to a saw. If you want it to cut fast you need a sharp chain.

Opening up the muffler will help a saw breathe and run a little cooler. A sharp chain will cut faster.
Having a longer bar on a saw can slow it down if the powerhead is not strong enough to pull it.

Having a few ported saws myself i can tell you the real power gains are in port timing and compression.
Even on those saws a dull chain will make them look very slow.

JohnG28

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,69759.msg1046894/topicseen.html#msg1046894

I did a thread a while ago on doing a muffler mod to a 361. Same process works with many other saws with some slight variations.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

nk14zp

Quote from: justallan1 on March 08, 2015, 10:39:02 PM
For the little mill I had, I added 3 stops that were vertical and adjusted with a "T" bolt. I liked them way better than the stock ones that flipped up. I put the first two at 2' apart and the 3rd at 6' from the first and had the 3 of them pretty much centered on the tracks.
The factory clamp/stop assembly made it impossible to have stops for loading logs was also one of the reasons that I made them.
I'm sure I'll build about the same thing for the new mill also.
I don't have any experience with the screw type clamps, but am wondering if they don't get in the way of the carriage on large logs?
How is modding a chainsaw any different than modding a sawmill?
Belsaw 36/18 duplex mill.
Belsaw 802 edger.
http://belsawsawmills.freeforums.org/

AdkStihl

Quote from: nk14zp on March 24, 2015, 01:28:27 PM
How is modding a chainsaw any different than modding a sawmill?

You hang out over here too........ go_away
J.Miller Photography

Andyshine77

The saw porting business is alive and well, I've done a bit of it myself. Ported saws are mostly for enthusiasts and pro loggers who want to up production, it's not for everyone. 

justallan1. Take into concentration manufactures have many constraints they must work around, from EPA regulations, product cost, to mass manufacturing variances. Most who actually know what they're doing, are often, simply removing these limitations and optimizing what is already there. For example, I've seen the squish band on two saws of the same make and model, have squish band clearance differences of nearly .030" that can make a difference in compression of 40psi or more, compression = power.

Now when it comes to opening up the muffler on a saw, it's not only allowing these EPA restricted engines to breath properly, it also reduces engine temperatures, particularly the exhaust side of the piston. Myself and others use spark arrestors for fire reasons mentioned above. With that said they're more sparks thrown off the bar and chain than from exhaust gasses. Most fires started by saws came from the older saws with the exhausts that were on the bottom of the saw, exhaust on saws can glow red after long cuts.   

290's gain quite a bit of power with a simple muffler mod, go for it, just make sure to retune afterwards, and never to run a saw unloaded as long as the guy in the video did, a few seconds is all that's needed.
Andre.

weimedog

Ditto Andyshine77.

One additional thought, a twist on that theme... I've been working with a few loggers this last year. AND how their operation is structured determines their interest in modifications. For example: One logger I work with does a lot of his own saw work, and his help also is "motorsports" oriented therefor quite interested in the saw he runs. THOSE guys are pushing me for more performance every time I either work on one of their saws or when they come around for "BS" time.

Another logger has a mix of mechanical harvesting and saw work. Typically his saw guys really are just young folks from the local farm community looking for some work and not particularly interested in the business or the tools used. Turn over is high a the work is long hours, nasty conditions, and very hard. Also a lot of the saw work is following the feller buncher and bucking the logs to the right length. He typically gives me saws with crush damage or the last one where one of the guys literally twisted off the air filter on a new 372xt breaking the air horn/filter holder along with damaging the intake boot as well.... HE is not particularly interested in adding another 300 dollars to the cost of his saws....they need to start, cut, and not stop until the job is done. Reliability and toughness to survive in that environment is way more interesting to him. Therefore I don't wouldn't even consider adding more variables into the equation for his "work" saws, stock is how they come; and stock is how they leave this shop. Now his personal saw.... :) that's another deal.

So for all the theory about saw mods adding one thing or another to the performance of a saw...that's all true. And the "cooling" thing with exhaust mods theoretically might even add a little life....and that's up for debate. It certainly won't hurt when done right. (I'm not a fan of random holes and holes sizes...they have to be a part of a plan) Stock is what those who are in the true business of manufacturing and supporting a dealer network believe are their best chances of providing a blend of performance and reliability in the market place deliver. The compromises have a lot to do with manufacturing tolerances... (Notice the new Husqvarna's like a 562 typically have pretty tight "squish" band measurement's...) and EVERYTHING to do with cost of supporting through warrantee, dealer networks, and the wide range of capabilities of those who use and service their products as they go through their service life. And as the previous post pointed out, some of the most productive modifications are really about bringing a saw closer to the "better" side of the tolerances. And old concept "blue printing" comes to mind. But as smart as those who port saws and build saws are, its really tough to out engineer the true engineers for that blend of performance and reliability over the life of a saw. That's my humble opinion.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

JohnG28

Excellent posts Andyshine77 and weimedog!  :)
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

nk14zp

Quote from: AdkStihl on March 24, 2015, 09:56:00 PM
Quote from: nk14zp on March 24, 2015, 01:28:27 PM
How is modding a chainsaw any different than modding a sawmill?

You hang out over here too........ go_away



HI!!! smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup
Belsaw 36/18 duplex mill.
Belsaw 802 edger.
http://belsawsawmills.freeforums.org/

Andyshine77

Great post weimedog!! It's nice to have input from the loggers, and how they see things. 
Andre.

justallan1

Quote from: nk14zp on March 24, 2015, 01:28:27 PM
Quote from: justallan1 on March 08, 2015, 10:39:02 PM
For the little mill I had, I added 3 stops that were vertical and adjusted with a "T" bolt. I liked them way better than the stock ones that flipped up. I put the first two at 2' apart and the 3rd at 6' from the first and had the 3 of them pretty much centered on the tracks.
The factory clamp/stop assembly made it impossible to have stops for loading logs was also one of the reasons that I made them.
I'm sure I'll build about the same thing for the new mill also.
I don't have any experience with the screw type clamps, but am wondering if they don't get in the way of the carriage on large logs?
How is modding a chainsaw any different than modding a sawmill?
What I had changed on the sawmill was just the clamping system to hold the logs.
For those of you that know about doing proper mods on your saws, more power to you. :D
For me, I can live with how it was originally made. I've always wondered if a lot of the mods done on any engine will shorten it's life?

CCC4


Andyshine77

Quote from: justallan1 on March 25, 2015, 10:02:59 PMI've always wondered if a lot of the mods done on any engine will shorten it's life?

A muffler mod will normally extend the engines life, and normally adds some performance. A properly ported work saw will last just as long as a stock one, and this has been proven.

You have no need for a ported saw, it's not your thing, and that's fine. With that said, don't dismiss them outright. I bet you'd change your tune if you actually ran one. Having the power of a large heavy saw, in a smaller lighter saw, is very attractive when you're working with a saw 8 hours a day, every day.

   
Andre.

CR888

Firstly l own/run ported saws and they are fun and great. But thinking porting a saw will extend its life is just plain silly unless its a heavily restricted muffler with maybe a cat inside. Increasing compression, lifting the powerband, increasing working rpm by a few thousand all create more stress on cranks, bearings, pistons, cylinders. I cannot believe some that post so often simply don't get this.

Andyshine77

Quote from: CR888 on March 26, 2015, 02:48:52 AM
Firstly l own/run ported saws and they are fun and great. But thinking porting a saw will extend its life is just plain silly unless its a heavily restricted muffler with maybe a cat inside. Increasing compression, lifting the powerband, increasing working rpm by a few thousand all create more stress on cranks, bearings, pistons, cylinders. I cannot believe some that post so often simply don't get this.

I personally don't consider some of the mods you mentioned, normal in a woods ported saw, some builders do. Most builders are pushing things far passed what I call a work saw. A lot of the crazy compression numbers these guys are getting are totally unnecessary in a work saw. So I agree with you.

Muffler mods are a different story, most modern EPA saws have extremely restricted mufflers, so yes a muffler mod will most definitely extend the life of the saw.       
Andre.

Ianab

Yeah, you are starting to talk about a "race" saw when you up the revs and compression.

Any engine design is a compromise. Manufacturers have to comply with emission and noise regulations, while still making a saw that's reasonably powerful, AND reliable. Now once you get your hands on it, you can then choose to ignore the emission and noise part of the equation.

So the "muffler mod" becomes practical. You decrease the back pressure, increase the noise, and the saw tends to spit out a bit of un-burnt fuel like an old school 2-stroke did. But you can adjust the mixture, and have the saw making a bit more power at the same rpm. and probably running a bit cooler. Buy some good ear muffs, and it's all good.

Porting involves changing the port timing. A bit more complex, but small changes can give a bit more power, and wont kill the saw. Like fitting a "warm" cam to a 4 stroke car engine. That's a "work" saw. You still expect it to last for years, just if goes a bit better. 

But if you go past that by upping the compression and increasing the revs, then it's like building a race car engine. How long do you expect it to run for? A race season? A single drag meet? The more stress you put in the engine, the faster it's going to wear out. Some of these guys could be replacing pistons and rings every week for all we know. Sure the saw cuts cookies fast, for 1/2 an hour....  If that's what they want. good on them. I'm sure I could get my Toyota to do a 10sec 1/4 mile. Just I'm not sure how long for   ;) :D
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

ktowne030311

So I was at the stihl dealer getting a few things for my ms290 project to finish it up. I told him that my next thing I wanna do I port my muffler. He told me not to, he said that it will scream, how ever it will not be as reliable, and I would blow it up. So I have opted not to do any porting.
McCulloch 5-49, Ms290/390 frankenstein, 030av, 051av

CCC4

Can you not just buy a dual port cover for that size saw?

JohnG28

ktowne, I don't believe that to be true at all.  Andyshine and Ianab's posts explain it very well.  As long as you don't go crazy and take a golf ball sized hole out of the muffler it's going to help it out a lot.  Read my thread on muffler mod for my 361, it will go right along with the 290 also.  It is going to give you more power with keeping the engine cooler at operating speeds as long as done right, which comes from properly tuning it after adding the second port on the muffler. 

Ian, I REALLY want to see that 10 second Corolla!!  :D :D Been looking for a way to get a little more from my Camry!  :D :D
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

HolmenTree

The video showing  the MS290 muffler mod was way overdone  with too many holes drilled.
To that guy he fooled  himself  thinking it had more power with how noisy  it became, but if he used a stop watch in before and  after  cuts he would probably find it cuts slower.
These plastic bottom end consumer grade saws are basically a throw away disposable  item. The time and expense to rebuild one and if you can find the proper  silicone  sealant makes them a poor choice to work on.
Your  far better off to find a decent saw like a 044AV  or 034Super to tinker with and you'll have something  more functional and worthwhile  in the end.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Ianab

QuoteIan, I REALLY want to see that 10 second Corolla!!  :D :D Been looking for a way to get a little more from my Camry!  :D :D

Getting a bit off topic, but here you go. 8.3 second Corolla. OK it's got a Nissan engine running a LOT of boost, but it's still street legal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHsq8_o52qM

My "Corolla" will do about a 13 sec 1/4 mile, that's factory standard.  It did come from the factory with a Lexus 350 engine (big V6). Toyota in Australia briefly sold a Camry / Aurion with the same engine, super-charged. But it never really caught on, just too much power for a front wheel car.  ::)

But it's like going crazy with your chainsaw, mod a machine too much, and iit becomes increasingly more impractical for every day use.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

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