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Starting with a starter question.

Started by luvmexfood, March 17, 2015, 07:57:50 PM

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luvmexfood

Been having trouble with my skidding tractor not wanting to start the last few days. Starter would kick in and just barely turn over. Thought it was corrision at the battery cable clamp. Replaced and cleaned the wire but still had intermitted problems. Today would not crank and for the second time and smoke came from the starter.

Even unhooked battery cable from battery on the postive side and hooked jumper cables, heavy duty ones, straight to battery cables and still no go. Just a slow grind.

Am I correct in assuming that the starter may be the problem? Have one on a different tractor that is the same part number when I looked it up and I am not using right now so I can change out to see. Been many years since I changed a starter. Any special concerns?

Second, I can purchase a new starter and solenoid for just a little under $200 off of flea bay from a company in Michigan. Bought an alternator off them once and was satisfied.

If I took it to a local rebuild shop have no idea what the charge would be. Anyone had one rebuilt recently that can give me a ballpark figure on the rebuild charge. I know parts may vary but labor should be the main thing.

Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

North River Energy

It's been a while since I've had a smaller starter rebuilt. Depending on condition, you'll probably kill a hundred.
Sounds like you might have a stuck or damaged brush?

coxy

don't know what kind of a tractor you have  but I just got a brand new starter for a 50hp Kubota motor and was 185 bucks not bad      mine was doing the same thing yours is doing   put the new one in know it turns over like it has no compression

thenorthman

as far as changing em goes, just disconnect the ground from the battery. Then its just nuts and bolts, check the wires for the insulation getting hard and cracking, may need to replace them along with the starter...

Rebuilding them isn't too big a deal, a guy can usually get away with new brushes, which are really cheap, to do it proper new bearings/bushings should be added (also cheap) and a new or rebuilt solenoid if equipped.

hardest part is getting them apart, and then lining everything up on the reassembly... Bolts are long and easily corrode. then the brushes need to be held out of the way while you slip everything back together.

The solenoid can be cheated sometimes by removing the cap and flipping the main terminal bolt (the one what leads to the positive terminal on battery).  Just doing this did wonders on my skidder about a year ago, it wouldn't engage reliably and when it would it was kinda slow, so rather then do it right I did what werks... now it starts reliably and turns faster, and the new solenoid is still kicking around on the crummy floor.

Anyway, contact your local automotive rebuild folks and ask for a quote, I would guess it to be around $100. That is just a guess though. In the meantime steal the other one and go drag some logs for parts money.

By the way, I don't think any of the tractor starters have that goofy shim issue like the old chevys do... so it should be a simple swap. 2-3 bolts to the bell housing/engine case, a positive wire, an ignition/control wire, and maybe 1-2 others... all pretty simple really.
well that didn't work

Corley5

Complete rebuild for the AC Delco on my Deutz is $200.00 at a local shop.  The Delco on my Bobcat's Kubota was $150.00.  Both were complete rebuilds.  The case and bolts were the only things original and he replaced some bolts  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

lopet

The smaller ones i wouldn't bother rebuilding them, if you can get them for $ 150-200 new. It doesn't take much to have a hour or a hour and a half at shop rate in it plus parts and you still have a old starter. IMO
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

tantoy

Quote from: lopet on March 17, 2015, 10:17:44 PM
The smaller ones i wouldn't bother rebuilding them, if you can get them for $ 150-200 new. It doesn't take much to have a hour or a hour and a half at shop rate in it plus parts and you still have a old starter. IMO
Yep, My mini ex has a Yanmar engine and I got a reman alternator cheaper than rebuilding my own.
1968 Garrett 20 Skidder
1991 Ford 1920 Tractor/Loader
2000 Takeuchi tb135 Excavator
Stihl 020, 041 Super, 084
Husqvarna 61, 181SE, 357XP

Bert

I had similar symptoms on my skid steer starter recently. All you could get out of it was a slow spin and it would get hot. Took it off and into a local starter shop. Damage was $210 by the time I got it back. Starts like dream now though.
Saw you tomorrow!

Jhenderson

I have had better luck rebuilding my starters than buying new. A cheap new starter comes from China and they are hit and miss. Mostly miss. eBay and some local reman shops offer them but out of the 3 I bought , all were poor performers. Luckily I saved my old ones and had them rebuilt. They've all held up well.

luvmexfood

So this morning went and took the starter off the one I was borrowing it from. Disconnect electical, 3 bolts (1 required a universal) and off. Good to go.

Went to other tractor same procedure, unhook unbolt and then it got fun. Starter would in no way come out without hitting the power steering hydraulic pump. Ended up having to remove one end of each of the two metal lines that connect to it. Start to remove it and the starter is now in the way. Had to bolt starter back up, remove pump, install starter, reinstall pump connect everything back up. Good news is tractor really cranked well. Don't think the old starter had been spinning it over as fast as it should have been.

Now no power steering but pretty sure since the resevoir dipstick is completely dry I must have lost more fluid than I thought. Didn't have any with me and it was by then 4:30 so have some just have to transfer from 5 gallon bucket to something more managable and take about a gallon or so back with me. Supposed to rain tommorow and Friday. Have to work my Scott's job Friday and Saturday so first of the week should be able to get back to it.

What made it difficult their is one bolt on the back you cannot see and can just get your finger tips to it. Had to use a deepwell socket, then universal and then a 12 inch extension to get it out. Getting it started back in was a real trick too. Guess I will get a new starter being the bad one is around 32 years old. May fix one thing and something else go at that age.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

s grinder

One trick i learned working on trucks and equipment. If possible wire wheel and never seise bolts,the bolt that's the hardest to see/get at, install and tie a small diameter string,fishing line, or tie strap on bolt holding it in, put starter in place, start other two bolts then go back to the one you tied in.I have had starters that that tough bolt was all but impossible to see/install and that always worked.

s grinder

one more thing to add,when you tighten bolts just squash it up you'll never know it's there or have any problems.

bill m

A new oem starter for my tractor is $415, new aftermarket is $200. To have mine rebuilt at a local electric motor shop $ 75.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

shinnlinger

I also have had better results with my local shop rebuilding vs a "new" Chinese starter.   Since you have the time I would go that route myself.   As you have already noted, it's not always easy and convenient to change a starter
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

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