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Started by Woodhauler, March 16, 2015, 06:40:19 PM

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Woodhauler

How much weight will 27, 55 gallon plastic  barrels support in the water. Going to build a small fish camp on top of them.
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

Dave Shepard

It's about displacement. Multiply 27 x 55 x 8.3. That will tell you how much it would take to submerge the barrels.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Woodhauler

Quote from: Dave Shepard on March 16, 2015, 07:18:27 PM
It's about displacement. Multiply 27 x 55 x 8.3. That will tell you how much it would take to submerge the barrels.
12325.5 pounds?
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

justallan1

I would have guessed 10,000 lbs, but after looking it up got an answer of 12,366 minus the weight of the barrels.
That's another of my wild ideas that hasn't happened, YET.

Woodhauler

Quote from: justallan1 on March 16, 2015, 07:21:34 PM
I would have guessed 10,000 lbs, but after looking it up got an answer of 12,366 minus the weight of the barrels.
That's another of my wild ideas that hasn't happened, YET.
I am going to do it ! Me and one of my ice fishing buddys are planning one!
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

thecfarm

We would like to go along for the build.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Jeff

I'd suggest armoring the sides the full height of the barrels above water if you hadn't already thought about it.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

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Ezekiel 22:30

snowstorm

city of belfast built a lot of new floats last summer. there old ones would have been perfect. i have seen a lot built with barrels . they build a frame work around it to hold them in. at dystarts marina in south west harbor they have concrete floats. the floats at front street use foam. the frame is pressure treated but the deck is cedar with stainless screws

Dave Shepard

Those bouancy billets are a lot of money, but do have the advantage that they won't water log.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Woodhauler

Looked at several you tube vids on how to make a float! Pretty simple!
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

Joe Hillmann

For safety I would suggest only planning on 5,000 pounds.  That way if the load is uneven it won't sink one side and to allow for 12 inches of freeboard.

Woodhauler

Load will be centered onn the platform.
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

Joe Hillmann

Quote from: Woodhauler on March 17, 2015, 11:41:51 AM
Load will be centered onn the platform.

When you first build it it will be but once you have people on it moving their weight around things can change quick if you don't have enough extra flotation.  Also wind could be a problem if you don't have extra as well.

Jeff

The problem with plastic barrels is, that if you develop some sudden holes, and you have a structure on top, you better be aware and head for shallow water quick.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Dave Shepard

Sudden holes? Like from fishing with dynamite?  :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

sandhills

I don't know about "sudden holes" but my BIL and I made a dock using them and apparently they can or do have "sudden vaccume effect"  :D.  One of the 6 we used decided to collapse, trust me it creates a serious tilting problem  :D.  Note we were only using a few and it was just to hold up a dock on a small lake, about 25 acres or so.

Dave Shepard

Would it makes sense to vent the tanks during extreme cold to prevent that, or would they then just explode in the summer? :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

21incher

Why not look for a old pontoon boat that has good pontoons, but a rotted deck and furniture. I have seen many on craigslist real cheap. Seems like it would cost less then building a deck and at the same time you could steer it and trailer it with a known load rating. :)
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Woodhauler

Quote from: 21incher on March 17, 2015, 06:57:52 PM
Why not look for a old pontoon boat that has good pontoons, but a rotted deck and furniture. I have seen many on craigslist real cheap. Seems like it would cost less then building a deck and at the same time you could steer it and trailer it with a known load rating. :)
Because mostm pleasure pontoon boats are only rated to haul like a dozen people weight wise!
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

Woodhauler

Quote from: Dave Shepard on March 17, 2015, 06:47:18 PM
Would it makes sense to vent the tanks during extreme cold to prevent that, or would they then just explode in the summer? :D
People use barrels all the time. If they are in the water they won't get any warmer then the water! It will come out in cold weather.
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

Dave Shepard

I was just making a funny post after sandhills vacuum effect post.  :)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

r.man

If the barrels were held in a frame but not held up to the deck they would sink rather than drag down the whole platform. Wouldn't be too hard to then submerge a good barrel and allow it to rise under the platform to take the place of the old one. A quick underwater survey would also allow you to identify problem barrels that are starting to take on water. Also don't forget that the float calculation was for a totally submerged barrel and it is never a good idea to max out capacity at the beginning unless in extreme need.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

Thehardway

Woodhauler, a while back I contemplated basically the same thing you are talking about.  I did quite a bit of research on it.  Empty 55 gal. plastic barrels will work but they alone are not neccessarily the best option IMHO.  I say this for a couple reasons.  First, they have a lot of sidewall area which does lend to them collapsing or bulging.  Second, they are prone to puncture.

If you are going to use plastic drums, the best option is the slightly smaller 30 gal, open top drums with resealable lids.  They maintain a lower profile and have less flexible sidewalls. They can be filled with empty, resealed, 2liter bottles or plastic drink bottles, laundry detergent bottles or virtually any type of bottle or foam flotation,  and then resealed.  If the outer shell is punctured, the bottles inside still serve as flotation.  The bottles inside also limit thermal expansion and contraction issues. 

Contrary to some posts and beliefs, plastic barrels will not sink your raft if they fill up with water.  Polyethylene is less dense than water and therefore bouyant. It will float, even if filled to the top with water.  It will not sink you or drag you down, but neither will it keep you afloat. It becomes neutral.

There are a lot of floating houses built on log rafts.  They have proven to be very durable and last a long time.  You may want to look at this option or a combination of the two as I was doing.

Other questions you will need to resolve is what the legalities are in the locality you plan to build it in, and permanent mooring issues.

Addtionally, be careful how you design and build your superstructure on the raft.  One of the advantages of log rafts over barrel rafts is that the waterlogged logs, serve like ballast and keep the center of gravity low.  If you are floating up high on lightweight plastic barrels and have a top heavy superstructure or one that is subject to wind loads, it can flip over very easy and you will have no way to  right it.  Floating structures with a high COG are inherently unstable and dangerous.  If you don't want to use logs, a couple of barrels ballasted with stone and hung in the center will help keep things floating rightside up should you have rough water or a wind storm.  Another option is to build a basement out of concrete. That's right, even though it sounds crazy, you can build a concrete basement.  If it springs a leak though, it will sink you unlike the plastic barrels or logs.  Best to have a quick release mechanism or a really good bilge pump.

Would love to hear more about your plans and the water you plan to launch on.

I have been a bit scarce on FF lately as I have decided to build a boat and have been over on a boat building forum.  I still have a few details to work out but it looks like I will be building a Tolman Jumbo if all goes as planned.  Up in Alaska, these boats have been used for hunting, fishing, and camping.   Feel free to PM.
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beenthere

Thehardway
We'll gladly accept some pics and updates of your boat building. Might prove to be very interesting to other FF members as well.

Good info on the floating rafts.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Woodhauler

Well shes all built, waiting for some warmer weather to launch it. Built 3 8x16 sections to put together in the water. 36 55 gallon barrels total.Have pictures on maine icefishingshanty, post under floating iceshack
2013 westernstar tri-axle with 2015 rotobec elite 80 loader!Sold 2000 westernstar tractor with stairs air ride trailer and a 1985 huskybrute 175 T/L loader!

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