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Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build

Started by YellowHammer, March 13, 2015, 11:41:54 PM

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cjderosa

Howdy YellowHammer-

We've been using your pictures and descriptions as our main model actually.  Though, I must admit, we're not quite as thorough as you are.

Here are a few shots I've got:



 


 


 


  

  

  

 

WDH

Looks to be progressing great. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Glenn1

It is looking very good.  I now wish that I had gone this route instead of the L53.
Vacutherm IDry, Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

just_sawing

Since I am about to build something even if it is wrong I have a question. What would you do different if you were starting over with your education you now have?
If you placed your fans on the sides of the stack angled to blow over the stack which would allow a higher stack would that be OK?
What type of budget should I expect (NO Gravel estimate since that is totally different to each region)
You can follow me at
www.http://haneyfamilysawmill.com

just_sawing

One more Question
I am limited on liner room what about installing Swinging doors on the high cube and not having the carts track and such. I understand they will have to be built well but an 40 by 40 space is doable in my location.
You can follow me at
www.http://haneyfamilysawmill.com

YellowHammer

Cjderosa
That looks great, I'm jealous of that big hunk of concrete you've got to work with. I notice that you've still got the freezer pack installed on the end of the reefer, I was able to cut a deal and sell some of the refrideration equipment back as salvage.  I used a lot of expanding foam plugging up all the holes and passive ductwork.

Just_sawing,
After its all said and done, I'm not sure that there is anything significant I'd change.  It has proven to dry wood very well and evenly, and I can load and unload it with a minimum of fuss and muss.  I've tweaked a few things, but for the most part, it just works.  

Putting swinging doors would be a great modification, but it would result in a huge door seal, and the seal is one of the most critical pieces of the kiln.  With my other kiln, I had to fight my door seal for a long time until I got it right, I didn't want to go through that again with this one so I did everything to make sure the seals were perfect.  The door seal is what keeps the $$heat in when undergoing the sterilization cycle, and it's the difference between reaching temperature quickly or slowly and minimizing my electric bill.



YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

TheTall

@YellowHammer

Hello,

Just joined. Mostly just ask you a few questions.
The company I work for is gearing up for our own Reefer Nyle Kiln. I noticed your original post is going on two years now and I had some questions.

1. One gent on here mentioned fan and light switches going bad every 4 months and the heat being hard on the conduit. Have you had any problems like this?

2. It looked like you used mild steel for you interior tracks. Is this so and how have they been holding up? Rust and what not?

3. Are there any things you wish you did differently now that you have had it running for a bit?


nativewolf

Liking Walnut

YellowHammer

It's been awhile, and time for a little follow up.  First off, the kiln has been everything I'd hoped for, and much more.  It has been much less maintenance and fuss than our smaller stick build kiln, and I would not hesitate to make a copy again.  I'd even thought of starting to build them on the side to sell.

The excellent functionality of the kiln was due in very large part to the information that folks shared with me on the Forum.  So thanks guys, for all your help!

The kiln container itself looks new, the seals are still in excellent shape, and without doubt, the correct kiln choice is a high cube reefer with stainless interior and aluminum exterior.    

I'm still loading the carts with a forklift, and push them in the kiln from the end or side.  

Actually, that's about it.  Not a whole lot.  

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

scsmith42

YH - good info.  I'll chime in because I've been operating an L200 container kiln for over 12 years and have a long history of operation with one.

Re the lack of corrosion, IMO your theory is correct.  When I load my kiln with green oak material, due to the high humidity the corrosion effect is significant.  When loaded with <20% MC oak, corrosion is pretty much nonexistent.

In 12 years of almost 7/24 operation, I've had to replace 2 fan motors (there are 6 in the kiln) and two capacitors.  I've had to replace about 6 thermal switches in the L200 and four of the PLC's in the controller (I have the Woodmizer 2000 model controller from Nyle).  I've had to replace several fan motor's on the L200, but that's because I added additional heat strips inside for setting the pitch on SYP and they tend to cook the motors if left operating too long.  This last time I fabricated an insulated metal heat shield for the bottom of the fan motor so hopefully that will extend my motor life. Additionally about 4 of the 6 fan switche / breakers have been replaced.

Four of my fans (the two on each end) have doors in front of them that we can close if we want to only run a reduced quantity of fans. Typically we will measure the initial air flow through the stacks and open/close fan doors (and power fans) as required in order to obtain an average of 350 FPS air flow through the stacks.

My fan wiring is not encased in conduit; rather it is exposed Romex with waterproof connectors where it enters the fans.  Only one motor had a corrosion problem in the wire nuts about 4 years ago from a leaky gasket.

I modified my container by building a recess in one side for the kiln unit it self.  This allows me an unrestricted path from end to end between the carts and the kiln walls.

I've found that when drying from green I experience a slower drying rate in the stack that is closest to the double doors.  I think that this is because I lose heat on that end when I enter the kiln to check on the load.  The stacks towards the back of the kiln do not seem to have the same problem as the one by the door.

After 12 years of operation I'm starting to see some corrosion in the steel surfaces of the kiln (mine was a converted, non insulated shipping container that we insulated ourselves) - mainly at the top.  The plastic vents are also starting to break down and will need replacing. 

My carts are 4" c-channel on 18" centers, and the stack width averages 40" wide and 72" tall.  Two carts are 16' and one is 12'.  We place a row of stickers on top of the channel to keep the bottom layer of lumber off of the metal.  This also allows us to place tyvek between the stickers and the cart to baffle the entry side of the stacks between the lumber and the cart.

One key area to pay attention to is baffling the load.  Even a small hole will significantly impact air flow and impact the drying rate as well as the consistency across the load.

I'm planning to build a dedicated kiln building later this year and transfer the equipment into it and retire the container (although I may retrofit it to be a slow drying slab kiln).  The new building will have chambers for two Nyle L200's along with an area for a future vacuum kiln.  My main motivation in doing this is to end up with a setup where I can load directly into the kiln  with a forklift and get away from the carts.  Additionally I think that I'll have more consistent drying from green with a taller, narrower width container that will allow me to place four bundles of 1K bd ft each, side by side and on top of one another. 

If I had it to do over again I would start with an insulated shipping container instead of a non insulated one.  The reason why was the high cost (and pain in the butt factor) of insulating mine plus the fact that the insulated ones are usually made from non-corrosive material such as stainless steel and aluminum.  I would also cut a pair of man doors into the sides to allow me to enter for status checks w/o having to open the end doors, and would probably add additional air flow fans near the kiln unit itself to help distribute the air coming out of the L200 more evenly from end to end.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

TheTall

I have another question for you YellowHammer, any way I can get a picture of your removable track bridge? I need to build one for our kiln and it is easier to copy a working and proven part then try to make one from scratch.

Cazzhrdwd

A great thread. I also have a "refer" container and it is by far better than my stick built kiln. The only problems I have is a bit of mold from drying from dead green. The unit is so sealed my drying problems come from being overloaded. The only other problem is instead of motors going bad, I've had capicitors go bad. The unit is at least twice as efficient as my stick built, it cuts the electric bill in half. I'm in the process of moving the kiln guts into another refer unit. I don't use the track system, I just use steel pipe to roll the load in and out. This works for me since I mostly saw 16' lumber
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

YellowHammer

Quote from: TheTall on April 18, 2017, 02:06:09 PM
I have another question for you YellowHammer, any way I can get a picture of your removable track bridge? I need to build one for our kiln and it is easier to copy a working and proven part then try to make one from scratch.

The bridge is made of channel, with angle welded on it with a staggered edge.  Then a piece of rebar is welded in the angle to act as a guide for the mating piece of angle track.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Cazzhrdwd

Another thing I like about your setup YH is how you filled in the railroad bed with gravel. For those that might not know, the container is about one foot high off the ground and to be able to push a load in with a machine, that raised bed needs to be created and filled in. IMO its a much easier way to load it than lowering the container into the ground.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

YellowHammer

Yes, 
Matching the gravel heights is important, in order to have a flat, level surface.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

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