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Author Topic: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build  (Read 16561 times)

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Offline WDH

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2015, 07:35:58 am »
I assume that the dehumidification unit was made for use in Australia or New Zealand  :D.   
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Glenn1

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2015, 09:11:36 am »
That's a very impressive pallet load.  Congratulations and good luck!
Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

Offline pine

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2015, 01:26:10 pm »
Nice going. Continuing to monitor as I am getting ready to start up my build.

Offline dean herring

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2015, 06:13:14 pm »
Can't wait to see some picsof your progress. Been down again with a bout with pneumonia. Went out for first time today to enjoy the sunshine. Good luck
Failure is not an option  3D Lumber

Online Peter Drouin

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2015, 08:45:13 pm »
Nice to see you spend money you make on equipment for the business. Not every one does that. I do, and think I have it all then I need more.  :D :D :D :D  Are you going to hire help too?
I think the goat has a good man he wants to let go. ;)
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2015, 11:01:33 pm »
I got a few things done this week, and learned a lot about reefer trailers.  I've never really worked with them before, but I'm pretty impressed with their construction, thick aluminum skin on the outside, stainless steel on the inside, and foam in the core.  The only parts that look like they will rust are the ends, where they have the stout steel frame and doors.  The rest of the frame is extruded structural aluminum, and the floor is a bed of aluminum I beams which provides a very straight, stiff floor, which gives be a good feeling about drying flat lumber.  It ought to last a long time, much different than conventional metal shipping containers that are constructed of "weathering" steel, designed to passivate themselves to the environment, and rust to provide an inert, protective surface.

The vents got installed, caulked, and sealed.  The power exhaust vent is installed in the far corner on the same side of the baffle as the kiln unit, while the passive inlet is installed on the other side of the baffle, on the opposite corner of the kiln.  As the temperature reaches a setpoint, the power vent will come on, and the resulting suction will open the passive vent.
 
 

I also got a good start on the fan baffle, made from treated 2x4's, and is built to hold 6 fans.  Bolts are installed though the bows of the roof, and I set them in 3/8 inch of silicone using a cardboard mold, to provide a sound isolator.  I've read where the fans can make quite a racket, and isolation will help quiet them out.
 
 
I just need to let them cure up, so I can set the baffle and start installing the fans.
YH
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Offline Glenn1

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2015, 07:32:16 pm »
Robert,
 The kiln is really taking shape and looking good.  Glad to hear that you ordered the automatic venting system.  Please keep the updates coming.  I started my kiln in December and its now been 4 months.  Maybe I should have gone your route and set up a container kiln.
Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

Offline jim blodgett

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2015, 10:43:32 am »
Yellowhammer - I have a question about your new kiln. You said you were going to position the powered exhaust vent on the same side of the fan baffle as the kiln unit.  That seems counter intuitive to me.  If that kiln unit was on the same side as the intake vent, the cooler air coming through the vent would mix with the heated air fron the kiln unit, then get dragged through the stack as the exhaust fan sucks, wouldn't it? 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how efficient these units are, how well the heat will mix in the chamber.   

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2015, 12:10:47 am »
I was wondering if anybody would catch that...I had the same "misgivings" and called and asked the same exact question to the kiln manufacturer as I was following the instructions and installing the vents.  I was told this is the proper way to do it, but as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out and I won't hesitate to reconfigure if it seems wrong in practice.

This is the exact opposite of my other kiln by the same manufacturer, but without power vents, where the intake side is the same side as the kiln unit. 

Even wIth this new kiln and a passive vent system, the the directions say the intake side is the kiln side (as best I can tell from the plans), however, when the power vent kit is installed, everything is reverse, and the intake now becomes the exhaust.

So to my reasoning, once a limit temperature has been reached, the power vent will open on the kiln side of the fan baffle, and some portion of the dry but hot air from the kiln unit will be exhausted until the temperature is reduced.  So this configuration would dump the most hot air, but would also be dumping some of the dry air directly from the kiln unit, which doesn't seem like a good idea. I would have assumed power exhaust would be on the opposite side of the kiln unit, so would be exhausting the not quite as hot, but moist air. 

The reasoning may be that since the exhaust is on the far corner of the chamber, complete mixing will have occurred and it will be the best place to dump hot and moist air.

So why would the addition of the power vent dictate a reversal of the normal passive vent system so the intake becomes the exhaust and the exhaust become the intake?...I don't know, but hopefully someone out in Forum land can explain it to me (us).
YH

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Offline jim blodgett

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2015, 09:00:39 am »
Maybe the fans mix the air in the chamber so effectively there's minimal difference in temp/humidity throughout the chamber?

Anyways, thanks for the detailed accounting of your new kiln build.  Looks great and gives lots of food for interesting thought.

Offline Tom the Sawyer

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2015, 10:03:17 am »
I am building a chamber for a Nyle L200M with the power vent system.  They have put out drawings showing the powered vent (the exhaust) on the dehumidifier side and another drawing with it on the other side. ????

I called them yesterday and was told that it didn't really make any difference as long as they were on opposite corners of the chamber and high on the walls.  The purpose of the vents apparently has nothing to do with moisture, rather they are to vent off hot air when it exceeds specifications.  The difference in moisture content and temperature of the air is minimal on either side of the baffles.

I also asked that someone from Nyle sign in and follow this thread, answering questions as appropriate.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2015, 12:02:32 am »
The instructions with the kiln are pretty good, but they do have some discrepancies.  Good news is I've got Stan at Nyle on speed dial and he knows his stuff. :D

Other than the unknowns (to me)  of the whole track loading thing I've got to work on, the container kiln has lived up to expectation as far as ease of rigging.  I feel I've saved tremendous time and effort not having to build the building itself, and don't miss it at all, everything from insulating the concrete to the seemingly miles of caulk and sealed screw heads and plywood joints on my other kiln.  The container's double door seal appears to be an excellent configuration, as to be expected. 
So far, this process has been a basic step by step assembly, and an hour or two after work gets me steady progress, which is important because I just don't have a lot of time to work on this, between my day job, logs to haul, lumber to work, and other stuff.  I have used a bunch of aluminum pop rivets, though.
Yesterday I got the fan baffle frame bolted to the ceiling on the silicone bedded bolts, and waited for the heavy rains to see if anything is leaking and at this point, nothing.   

It seems to do a good job being a container, I hope it it will do a good job drying lumber.  ::) I guess we will see. 


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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2015, 10:48:50 pm »
I was able to get the fan baffle up this week.  It started as three 12 foot long sections of pressure treated 2x4's, with rough openings for the fans.  Since I pre installed the anchor bolts through the bows in the roof, I had to jack the fan baffle sections up to the roof to get the washers and nuts on them.  Don't laugh, but this fancy contraption, courtesy of the Madison County Sanitation Department and a hydraulic lift table allowed me to easily raise the baffle frames up and get the predrilled holes on the bolts.  Here's me raising the fan baffle frame, and you can see the next frame's first bolt protruding down from the ceiling.
 

Once I got the three baffles sections up, I mounted all six of the fan frames, then skinned it with plywood.  I mounted the fan frames first so that I could make sure they fit tightly and made adjustments to the wooden frame.  The fans and motors are pretty heavy and I wanted them to fit just right.  Then I drilled 12 holes in frame (3 per side) fastened them in to the wood with stainless steel screws, applied urethane caulk and finally, used screws to attach the plywood to the wooden frame.  Here's the fan baffle complete with all the fan frames in a row.
 
Once I got that done, I test fit one of the fans in the frame and everything went well.  The fans can be wired up as either 220 or 110, but the overload switches Nyle sends with their fans is 220V rated, so I wired the motors accordingly. 
Here's a picture of one of the fans mounted in the baffle
 
I unpacked the kiln controller and stretched out all the wires to see what I had to work with.  I had ordered the unit with an extra 20 feet of main cable, and the sensor wires appear to be pretty long, so I used this to figure out where I wanted the kiln unit to be located in the container.  Once I had that figured out, I went outside and mounted the kiln controller enclosure.  I fell back on what used in my other kiln, which is a side mounted truck tool box.  These tool boxes are great, they are waterproof, open easily from the side, and the fold down side door serves as a desktop.
 
I also added some braces underneath to add some more strength to the mounting.  The truck box is pretty heavy, and I wanted it attached securely to the aluminum frame of the container.  I used polyurethane adhesive between the box and the container skin, and used screws to hold it in place.
 
Once I got that finished, I started preparations for the wiring, and installed some 1 inch conduit in strategic locations to serve as a wire ladder.  I wont be running solid, uninterrupted conduit as is conventionally done, I like to use smaller section with gaps, so I can feed the wire though the conduit, but set branches very easily.  I also use outdoor rated wire, 12-3 with ground, so it will take the heat and humidity of the kiln.  Here's the conduit being run to the baffle as well as the over temp exhaust fans.
 

YH



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Offline WDH

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2015, 07:18:34 am »
You will be up and running in no time. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Glenn1

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2015, 07:41:34 am »
I can see that you have been very busy,   looks very nice!
Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

Online Peter Drouin

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2015, 10:27:23 pm »
YH, doesn't sleep. :D :D
2008 LT40 super, And can cut up to 45' long
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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2015, 10:41:59 pm »
You will be up and running in no time.
I sure feels like I'm already getting to the short rows.
YH, doesn't sleep. :D :D
I get bored sleeping :D

Between working loads of some real pretty curly hard maple (I hope) logs today and getting some gravel delivered, I started the layout and installation of the control box interior, drilling holes and setting pass throughs.  I like to use the bell end of pvc conduit one one side to trap and glue, and caulk to a junction box in the other side of the wall in the kiln interior.  I mounted pass throughs for the main kiln cable, the kiln data cables and also 110V and 220V power.  I made the pass throughs because it's never a good idea to mix ac power and data lines in the same conduit, and I will use foam plugs to seal them off when I run the wires.  You can see the wall construction of the kiln, a layer of exterior aluminum, then a layer of foam, and finally a layer of stainless steel.  That's pretty much it. 
 

Now that I have most of the electrical components of the control box in place, I can start pulling wire and making connections.  The steel in these truck boxes is amazingly tough, I ruined a nice carbide tipped hole saw today, sheared the teeth tips right off.  Oh well, I had a spare.  On one of the junction boxes, I even set a  wall outlet and a light bulb socket, to keep the controller from being exposed to freezing temps. No fancy switch here, I have gotten used to just turning the bulb.  The kiln control box will be removed just before I get the kiln container moved to is final location, I don't want to risk damaging it during the transport.   
 
 

I spent some time fiddling with the Nyle fan switches, but for various reasons was not happy with them, and I'm not going to use them at this point.  I'll look into alternatives.

I had another couple loads of gravel delivered, one of crushed concrete and the other of size 67 washed gravel.  I've been getting quite a few loads lately to develop a new access road where the kiln will be placed.  The crushed, reclaimed concrete packs down very hard and the other washed stone will be used under the concrete aprons and kiln. Somewhere on the opposite side of the globe, gravel must be popping out of the ground, because I keep putting loads down and it just keeps dissapearing  into the mud.  Its got to be going somewhere.  Good news is the trucker who delivers the gravel s a neighbor of mine, so he can deliver a load on his way home.   
 

Interesting enough, I've been talking to shipping container guys and they say concrete under a container isn't the best choice of bedding for a heavily loaded container. Each of the four corners protrude down an extra 3/4 inch, so unless a recess is formed in the concrete, the only part of the container to be touching the ground will be the corners.  The rest of the container is bridged up and unsupported, unless shims are used.  So apparently the best choice of container surface is asphalt, so when loaded, the four corners will settle into the soft asphalt until the body of the container is supported.  The second best container bedding technique is gravel, or gravel and ties.  Kind of a threw me a curve on this one, I was gettin ready to pour concrete, already had a bid, but now, not so sure, so I'm considering my options.
YH

 

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Offline WDH

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2015, 07:26:07 am »
Will the new kiln be out behind the planer room?
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline scsmith42

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2015, 09:14:26 am »
It's looking good!
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Hi Cube Reefer Kiln Build
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2015, 09:08:39 pm »
Will the new kiln be out behind the planer room?
Yes, since iteh kiln ano loading track are relatively long, we had a little trouble finding a suitable flat, spot, close enough to be handy.  And the thing is ugly as, well, a big ugly hunk of metal shipping container, and I wanted to get it out of sight a little.  Turn sout that behind the barn there is about 100 feet of fairly level ground, with a good place to locate the loading ramp and electrical. 
Right now, the container is located next to the shop, by the side of the barn.  Once it's built, we will move it in position and do the electoral hookup, the wires are already run. As my buddy says, build the fire next to the woodpile....

It's looking good!
Scsmith42 was kind enough to let me know to mount the fan baffles in rubber isolators through the roof, to cut down the noise.
YH
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