Charge Less for Beams?

[homesteader1972]

Got a potential customer wanting to build a log cabin, so it will consist of a lot of 6x12 logs/beams. Do you charge less for such, and if so how much less. Certainly the bf will add up fast that way, especially the 20 footers. What do yall do?

thanks much

[terrifictimbersllc]

U charge hourly so can't answer from experience . But cutting long beams accurately and handling them eats up a lot if any time savings.

[ncsawyer]

A little while back I sawed a bunch of 8x8 and 8x10 white oak beams to be made into trackhoe mats.  I quoted my normal board foot rate and it ended up being cheaper than he could have hauled them to a large mill and had them milled by the time you figured in the haul bill, so he was happy and I was happy.  The other thing to consider is the equipment needed to move the beams off of the mill.  That may add time to the milling process.

The alternative to charging by the board foot is to charge by the hour.  The bottom line is to work out a pricing schedule where you make money and he is satisfied.

[red]

What kind of wood?   Whose LOGS?

[Magicman]

Much depends upon how much support equipment is there and who is furnishing it.  I do not provide any support equipment, so that would be hourly rate for me. 

[4x4American]

Is this on a portable job you talking?

[homesteader1972]

Its a mobile job, his logs, poplar. He provides the skid steer. Its sounding like you all do not discount any, and maybe charge hourly. Do most of you find that it takes longer to mill long beams like this?

Thanks again

[Jim_Rogers]

By the bdft. You have down time while you're waiting for him to move the timber off the mill.
Jim Rogers

[Percy]

Up here, cutting WRC or Sitka, beams fetch more than the side lumber. There are way more logs that can make a 1x6 than a 6x12. Tractors and skid steers are your friend with this type of cut.....obviously

[beenthere]

Its a mobile job, his logs, poplar. He provides the skid steer. Its sounding like you all do not discount any, and maybe charge hourly. Do most of you find that it takes longer to mill long beams like this?

Thanks again

You are making it sound like you do not have any experience sawing long beams. Hope you are not painting yourself into a corner. Maybe do some short trial runs before making a big commitment that might not go well for you and/or your customer.
But hope you get the job and it works out well for you.

[Brad_bb]

Also consider that for beams, you need to have them square withing 1/16th at worst and preferably better.  If used for anything better than posts, they need to be grade 1 or better.  Usually better because you need to take into account cosmetics for timberframe.  You might be able to use a lower grade for log cabin stacking logs on top of each other to make walls?  I an not informed as to log building.

No I don't think you'd charge less per sae.  You have different specs and handling considerations.  Think about this, if your band is not cutting parallel to the bed, the thickness of one side of your first board and last board might be off a bit(assuming flat sawn).  Not too big a deal on lumber.  it would make more of a difference on a timber though- causing it to be out of square.  In other words, make sure your band mill is cutting square to the bed and adjust if necessary before starting the job.

As Jim says, you probably need to figure an appropriate BF price if sawing your logs, and it's a choice for customers logs at their site, hourly or BF.  If they have to do all the handling, and they are not Johnny on the spot, maybe hourly would be better?

[Bandmill Bandit]

He cant buy those at the local lumber yard unless the lumber yard orders em from you or some one like you. and the lumber yard sure wont sell them cheap i can tell you that for sure.

In this country that kind lumber brings a premium. Real good stuff can go as high as 1500 per MBF or higher.

[Ianab]

Non-standard sawing.  Charge an hourly rate. If they are good logs, he's got his site set up, and is on the ball moving logs, slabs and beams, he will gets a cheaper job. If you are held up waiting for him, or have a few reject logs in the pile, it's not you problem. End of they day you got your hourly agreed rate.


Now if you are selling beams, they may very well be worth more than boards. Need better logs, more equipment to handle them, limited supply etc. 

But if you are just supplying machinery and labour, those factors don't really come into it. If he wants beams or pen turning blanks, you cut, and don't worry. Work out what you need to earn to make it a "good" day, and divide by ~7 hours, and that's your rate. 

[customsawyer]

I charge the same bf rate for sawing the customers timbers. I use all my own equipment and they supply the logs.

[Peter Drouin]

I don't get in a game with the customer  where  he says you only have 4 or 5 cut to make a beam. Can't I get a better price. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
NO!!!!
Good luck

[red]

If they were short in length may be but anything over 12ft it's all about handling and Time

[Chuck White]

I would charge by the board foot.

Even though the bf adds up more quickly, the handling enters the picture.

If that don't work for you, go hourly!

[red]

I worked in an Auto Parts store and everyone wants a discount. I would say this is not Discount Auto go ask them all your Questions and follow their advice.
The best were people from the phone company wanting a discount I say Sure as soon as you can get me a discount on my phone bill.. . Find out what the customer does for a living

[redbeard]

If you compare BF prices at local lumber yard, You should see a increase in cost the bigger the lumber. Example a 8x8 will be alot higher BF cost than the standard 2x4 BF cost. Something to consider.

[Ohio_Bill]

I find one of the hardest things in a job like this is getting  the customer to understand  what logs he needs for the beams he wants. For a 6 by 12 it takes a very staight 14 inch log . Not sure about your area but around here most 20 ft poplar will have some sweep.

[homesteader1972]

Thanks for all the great comments and feedback! I have not told him anything on the price yet, he still has some homework of his own to do. I also told him i would need to come out and look at what he has got before I could give him a price. What all you have told me will help in matter much.

Thanks again!

[Brucer]

If I'm sawing my logs, I charge a lot more for beams than for lumber. Timbers require bigger (and often better) logs than plain lumber and they are harder to handle.

If I'm sawing the customers' logs, I charge the same amount per BF no matter what I cut. Sure, there are fewer passes of the saw to cut a beam, but it takes just as long to fetch the log, load and position it, and square up the cant as if you were making boards. The saw still had to cut through that (possibly dirty) outer shell. And you have to pay more attention to positioning the log just so.

[landscraper]

Also consider that for beams, you need to have them square withing 1/16th at worst and preferably better. 

That's pretty darn accurate.  I just finished a complete alignment on my mill and I used a steel rule and a straight edge for my measurements. It is sawing what I consider to be straight, parallel and angular lumber, but I don't know that I could produce consistent 1/16" or better diagonal accuracy on big timbers from end to end. 

I agree that bigger beams and slabs should be no cheaper than dimensional lumber for the reasons of scarcity and added difficulty.  They should in many cases be more expensive IMO.  Even more so if you furnish the material.

[4x4American]

Really?

[landscraper]

Really?

If you're asking me, then, yeah, really.  I mean to say that if I cut a bunch of 20' 6"x12" like the OP was talking about that I'm certain that I could find a point somewhere along the length of one of the beams where if I sawed it in half at that point and checked diagonals that it could be out 1/16".  Where a knot was, or grain slope change, internal stress, or whatever.  I'm not saying the whole beam would be out of square, that's why I check and adjust alignment.  The post I was responding to was saying that if you were sawing beams that the spec was 1/16" or less out of square, which I thought was a pretty accurate requirement for the entire length of a beam and that it was likely for there to be spots along the beam that might not be perfectly square.  My opinion FWIW.

[Brad_S.]

That's part of the reason it's called "rough" lumber. If the customer requires that kind of precision, they need to run it through a planer.

[4x4American]

Yup makes sense

[Darrel]

Back in the day when I was the planet an in a big mill, the standard for accuracy on big beams like that was 1/4 inch for rough lumber.  Coming out of the planer, we had to be within 1/32 inch. 

[customsawyer]

The other thing you have to keep in mind is the longer the log or beam you are cutting the more stress can move it. I guess what I am saying is that if you have a 10' beam and it bows up of your mill then when you go to 20' you can sometimes double it. It gives the stress twice as much leverage to mess you up but it also gives you twice as much time to find it and fix it. ;) One of the things I don't like about cutting long beams is when some one wants them as close to perfect as I can get but bring in the logs and they are just large enough to get the timber. In this case you can cut to release the stress or you can cut to get the timber with the least amount of wane. You need good sized logs to be able to do both.

[red oaks lumber]

jake's post says an awful lot, read it and re read it.  much to be learned from it.

[Peter Drouin]

And if you're good you can steer the beam straight. [working with the stress most times] ;D

[customsawyer]

Not when the size of the log limits what side you get to cut next. ;)

[Peter Drouin]

Not when the size of the log limits what side you get to cut next. ;)

If that was the case it would be to small a log to get the beam out of the log  without it all covered with wane. After some time of sawing you should be able to tell by looking at the log and know if you can get the beam you want.
Then when you have that down try cutting beams with no hart and keep them straight. ;)

[Dave Shepard]

I think we need a pic of the four 40' 12"x12"s coming out of one log for Peter. :D

[Peter Drouin]

I think we need a pic of the four 40' 12"x12"s coming out of one log for Peter. :D

I remember that pic  :D :D :D We all know what happens when you split the pith. :D :D :D

[drobertson]

I have to chime in, it really means nothing, and for the most part I like dealing with folks, sawing beams of whatever size can be tricky. If
one looking for them has a hard time believing this then go ahead and saw some out.  No log acts the same, and taking 1" off to relieve the stress could not be more important.  All I can say, from a shorty beam sawyer, 20' stock, and this is long enough for me! ;D
the price for these should be based on what it takes you to get the job done.  There will be highs and lows through any job in my experience, but it pans out in the end.  To get into sawing straight out of the gate is a recipe for lots of learning.  And should be taken as that.  The mother loads comes and go for me, and I never figure one job to be the end all.  There will be times(at least for me) when you feel like you gave stock away, while other times you may feel for the customers back pocket,  For me it is tricky.  What's fair?  whatever (everyone) is happy with at the end of the day.  pretty simple around here, in other areas, there are folks that looks for FREE!  with an attitude.   

[customsawyer]

  :D

[red oaks lumber]

jake
thats exactly what i was thinking :D :D