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Something to discuss on blades

Started by POSTON WIDEHEAD, March 04, 2015, 09:35:26 PM

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POSTON WIDEHEAD

 I have been using different degree blades for different woods since I got my mill.

When I first starting milling 4 1/2 years ago, I used 10° for Pine and Poplar and 4° for harder woods.

For the last 3 months, I have used 4° for ALL WOODS......and done this purposely.

I can saw a lot more BF with a 4° sawing woods I used to use a 10° or 7°.
On all woods I use the 4° on, whether softwood or hardwood, the finish is smooth and the blade will saw more BF......BEFORE......it starts showing signs of getting dull.


Using a 4°, I actually can saw a little faster.

So my question......Why should a sawyer NOT use anything but a 4° on all logs he saws?

I'm convinced, a 4° blade is THE ONLY blade a band mill should use. If you could spend some time at my mill, I could prove what I am saying.

Just a little something that works for me. :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

woodhick

I run 9* on softwood and 4* on harwood.  I have to slow down with the 4*, seem to eat a lot more horsepower.  I only had 25hp.  I have now upgraded to a Super mill with the 42hp Kubota so may not have that problem.  I was comtemplating going to 1 1/2" 7* with the Super and phase out my 1 1/4"'s.  Will be watching this thread for insight on which is best.
Steve
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I run a 29hp and I know HP has a lot to do with it.
The 4° does really well with my engine.
But I see no reason to have different blades when the 4° is the way to go for me.
I'm telling ya....a whole lot smoother lumber knotty or not.  :)

I milled 755 bf of Cedar with 1......4° blade vs. 2... 10 degree blades and finished faster than if I had used a 10°. I use a debarked also.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

shakebone

I use 10* and 7* on a desiel mill but my small mill loves the 4's
Lt40 super desiel , LT 35 hyd , New Holland ls 180 , Case 75xt ,
So many logs so little time.

Ocklawahaboy

Also makes sense if you have a mixed run of logs.  I know newer mills are faster but a blade change takes at least 5 min on my mill and then if I don't line it up right, start multiplying the time.

gfadvm

I have an LT15 with a 15HP Kohler and WoodMizer recommends 10 degree bands for this saw. I don't saw any softwoods other than the rare ERC. Mostly white oak, hickory, and hackberry. My mill does labor on the big hickory and white oaks (20" ers). Would I be better off with a different degree band?

POSTON WIDEHEAD

A 4° will saw some of the prettiest Poplar you have ever seen. And I can MORE board footage pre blade with the 4 than I do the 10.

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Gasawyer

I switched to 7deg about 10years ago and love them have not tried 4deg yet. Used to have different bands for different wood but got tired of the hassel of keeping them separated, life is slot simpler with one degree band. I do keep .045 and .055 thicknesses certain jobs, but mostly .045. I generally keep 200 bands on hand so simple is good.
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Gasawyer on March 04, 2015, 10:23:41 PM
Used to have different bands for different wood but got tired of the hassel of keeping them separated, life is slot simpler with one degree band.

Thats my point.  :) I really think the quality of the finish of  lumber is better with the 4.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

4x4American

You're right.  I used a 4° Kasco blade in frozen EWP today, and the finish was smooth as a baby's bottom.  Plus it was much less wavy than the 10's and 8's I was using.  I liked the sound the blade made, more higher pitched, circle saw sounding.  Now all I have to do is get a protractor and make my sharpner so that it can grind at 4° and I am going to do some converting.  Also was thinking I'd play around with 6°.  What do you set 4° blades at?  Same as any?
Boy, back in my day..

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: 4x4American on March 04, 2015, 10:35:03 PM
  What do you set 4° blades at?  Same as any?

Woodmizer does all my blades in Newman, Georgia. I'm very pleased with their work.  :).....and a fast turn around.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

4x4American

Ahh icic...so how long do you keep blades on for I've been having trouble breaking blades and someone told me to swap em every 90 minutes...I had been running them til they got dull.  I just look at the tip of the tooth, like anything you can tell if it's sharp or not.  Something sharp won't shine, no peened over edge, look for a black line.  Also if they aren't cutting well.
Boy, back in my day..

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: 4x4American on March 04, 2015, 10:58:39 PM
..I had been running them til they got dull. 


Not good. When I first detect my 4° blade making a hump over at least 1 knot, I change. For the simple reasons, I don't want a wave of ANY kind in my lumber and if I change the blade right then, I will get more re- sharps out of it.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

4x4American

I see.  So don't let the blade tell you when to change, let the cant tell you.

I have a brandy new 4° WM blade here in a box waiting for it's turn.  (No pun intended)
Boy, back in my day..

MartyParsons

Hello,
I get to run many models of WM mills with different hp and saw lots of different woods. I mostly run the 7/39 Turbo blade.  .045 1 1/4" width. I do saw as fast as the blade and the engine will go. I do keep 4 degree blades with me if I get into a bind. I was sawing Ash today. With a 92 LT40HD Onan 24 hp and a new LT40HDG26 I had 7/39 on both mills and the lumber looked good. We have many customers who use this 7/39 blade.
Even though the 10 degree blade is the world wide most common blade sold by WM and I think the other band blade companies sell this profile as the universal cutting blade. I very very rarely ever use it.
The 7 /39 will give you wash board lumber if the feed rate is reduced.

Thanks
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Good reply Marty. Running all those different mills.....you lucky dog, that would be fun.
I like to keep experimenting with just my mill to see what changes I can make to produce a better board at a faster rate.
Its just fun.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

4x4American

What's the difference between the turbo and the regular 7°, @MartyParsons
Boy, back in my day..

4x4American

I was thinking the same thing, that sounds like fun to be running all sorts of different mills in different woods.
Boy, back in my day..

MartyParsons

Hello,
I even get to go out in the field when the call comes in " my mill will not cut"  Last week on a LT70 the customer only had 30 to 40 lbs in the blade tension air bag. So that was an easy one.

The 7/ 39 degree or Turbo blade has a 39 degree back angle. The 7 degree blade has a 34 degree back angle. The 39 degree back angle gives the tooth a positive set tooth and it penetrates the wood at a different angle. It also makes a larger chip which carries out of the cut. If the feed rate is slower than the tooth wants to cut then you get the wash board lumber. I am not sure why anyone would want to saw slow.  ;)
We work with many customers who are in production and are using the .055 7/39 1"1/4 blade on the LT70 and WM4000.
Depending on what wood I am sawing I even use the 7/39 on the LT15 with the 18 or 19 hp engine.

   If the 4 degree works for you keep using it. If you get a chance to saw with a 7 /39 blade try it. Feed rate needs to be increased compared to the 4. Engine drive belt needs to be at the correct tension. The Turbo needs hp and it will slip the drive belt if you are not careful.
We could go on all evening.

Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The 4° is the best match for my 29hp.....I'm happy.
Thanks for explaining the 7/39. I learned something Marty.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

JustinW_NZ

Ive just started swapping to the 7 turbos bands .45 1 1/2..

Found them great on some of the hardwoods and stuff we saw here in nz, but generally  forgiving on speed when u need to slow down.
Im running 40hp diesel by the way..

cheers
Justin

Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

ladylake


  You don't have to talk me into 4° blades, my sharpener has been set at 4° for the last 10 years and yes they cut more lumber straighter but take a hair more power.   I also think I get more sharpening's out of a 4°  blade.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

Its my understanding that 10 degree came about with the first band mills that were hand feed, as it made them easier to push into the log. Like a lot of things on mills folks just do stuff by wrote in other words they always used 10's and don't want to change for fear of upsetting something. Personally I don't notice much difference, my bands are 10 when I get them and 6 after I sharpen them. Be aware if you use a drag sharpener like the older WM or cats claw that the left side of the grinding wheel will tend to wear and give you a degree or two less than its set at, for the most part a good thing. I very seldom dress the Cooks ceramic wheels and they last  a long long time. The only true way to know your angles is with a machnests protractor, have a white background and have a slight gap from the tool to the front of the tooth. Its tough to tell one or two degrees but it doesn't make much difference. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

xlogger

Poston, on ERC it easy to cut most of time, did you notice any differences? Oops sorry I just reread and see where you did find a difference on cedar.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

BBTom

I agree with Marty when it comes to speed.  The 7-13° blades will cut faster, however...  I have been exclusively custom sawing in north central Ohio and normally have at least three or more species in the pile which have been cut one day to five years ago.  The 4° blade is not as fast as the others, but it will cut straight lumber no matter how hard or soft the wood is. 

I too have gone to using the 4° band exclusively.  I also have switched to the .055 exclusively.

I am moving to SW Missouri and will probably start cutting mostly oak. I might have to experiment with other bands again.

The reason there are different bands is because there are different sawyers and different woods.  You have to find the one that works for you.
2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

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